Suns Off-season Thread

[somethingshesaid]

It is easy to suppose that some players who performed well in 2020-21 but poorly this season--Payne and Craig--had "off years"; but what if the opposite is more true? Meaning their 2020-21 performances were simply above-average for them, and now in 2021-22 they both "regressed to their mean"? That the lousy seasons they just gave are their true "normal" games, not 2020-21.

 

[Finito]

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[Mainstreet]

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If there is a market for these players... sure... but the Suns have expiring contracts in Crowder, Saric and Craig.

 

[Folster]

If there is a market for these players... sure... but the Suns have expiring contracts in Crowder, Saric and Craig.

I didn't realize the Shamet contract had such little guaranteed money. Only the first 2 years are guaranteed for a little less than $20M.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't realize the Shamet contract had such little guaranteed money. Only the first 2 years are guaranteed for a little less than $20M.

That's still 2 more seasons of guaranteed money for a trade partner to take on unless they like him as a player.

 

[Mainstreet]

Jazz will interview Suns assistant Kevin Young.

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[Mainstreet]

Gabriel Lundberg plans to play for the Suns in the Las Vegas Summer League.

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[Finito]

Gabriel Lundberg plans to play for the Suns in the Las Vegas Summer League.

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Must see TV

 

[Mainstreet]

Must see TV

For me it is.

I want to see if Iffe can play and possibly make the roster or sign a two-way contract.

 

[Hoop Head]

For me it is.

I want to see if Iffe can play and possibly make the roster or sign a two-way contract.

I believe we have restricted rights to him right now for another 2 way deal. I've seen it mentioned a few times on ESPN's off-season guides for various teams. That 2 Way players have a 50k cap hold of sorts that allows teams to keep them. I could be wrong and that may only apply to certain deals but I think all 2 Way deals are written like that so the teams that had them for first has sort of first dibs to convert them. It would make sense otherwise I'd imagine a team could try luring away another teams 2 Way player by offering a full contract, which wouldn't be fair to the team who has them under a 2 Way deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

I believe we have restricted rights to him right now for another 2 way deal. I've seen it mentioned a few times on ESPN's off-season guides for various teams. That 2 Way players have a 50k cap hold of sorts that allows teams to keep them. I could be wrong and that may only apply to certain deals but I think all 2 Way deals are written like that so the teams that had them for first has sort of first dibs to convert them. It would make sense otherwise I'd imagine a team could try luring away another teams 2 Way player by offering a full contract, which wouldn't be fair to the team who has them under a 2 Way deal.

I've read Gabriel will be a RFA as well. It would be nice to keep him as a two-way player sort of like Ish Wainright last season with a chance to make the roster. Of course I'm assuming he shows something in summer league and beyond.

Last season I kept hoping Iffe would take Payton's spot on the roster. I don't see Payton coming back. The Suns will be looking for players on cheap contracts for the tail end of their roster.

I wonder if Wainright will return. I was okay with him as a two-way player but I'm not sure he belongs on the 15 man roster although Monty likes him a lot.

 

[Hoop Head]

I've read Gabriel will be a RFA as well. It would be nice to keep him as a two-way player sort of like Ish Wainright last season with a chance to make the roster. Of course I'm assuming he shows something in summer league and beyond.

Last season I kept hoping Iffe would take Payton's spot on the roster. I don't see Payton coming back. The Suns will be looking for players on cheap contracts for the tail end of their roster.

I wonder if Wainright will return. I was okay with him as a two-way player but I'm not sure he belongs on the 15 man roster although Monty likes him a lot.

I'd keep Ish if we can unload Torrey Craig somehow. He's good as a high energy PF off the bench. He doesn't have Craig's shooting touch but Craig didn't seem to have it anymore last season either.

I don't see the point in keeping Craig, Saric, and Crowder. That's arguably the worst PF rotation of any playoff team out there. There isn't much drop in talent from 1 to the next but none should start full time at this point and the 3 make too much combined that inevitably 1 won't see minutes and that's just wasted funds.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd keep Ish if we can unload Torrey Craig somehow. He's good as a high energy PF off the bench. He doesn't have Craig's shooting touch but Craig didn't seem to have it anymore last season either.

I don't see the point in keeping Craig, Saric, and Crowder. That's arguably the worst PF rotation of any playoff team out there. There isn't much drop in talent from 1 to the next but none should start full time at this point and the 3 make too much combined that inevitably 1 won't see minutes and that's just wasted funds.

Yes, the Suns will need some cheaper contracts and power forward is a position of weakness.

Craig, Saric and Crowder are about $25 million of expiring contracts. I wouldn't mind Shamet being included in a trade either for another $10 million to get a trade done. If Crowder came off the bench it would be more tolerable.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Now that I know that players were sick, to me that changes everything--the situation was abnormal. Therefore, I have no idea whether the Suns should trade Ayton or make any major trades. Perhaps minor adjustments and free-agent signings would suffice, such as tweaking their system and dumping Cameron Payne. Well, and of course find a power forward who rebounds better than Jae Crowder.

Yes, I said dump Payne. I suspect that his good year in 2020-21 was an outlier, and his 2021-22 performance is actually his baseline. Let the Suns figure out whether that's correct; but even if I'm wrong, do they really want a backup point guard who isn't a strong playmaker or a very good defender? Someone here explained to me that Payne is one of those drive-and-kick types; also left me the impression that his defense isn't notable. Aaron Holiday's is probably better. Sign or trade for a better backup, who can possibly replace Paul when he retires.

 

[Folster]

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[somethingshesaid]

And what kind of player is John Collins?--not familiar besides knowing from the photo that he's a forward. Should the Suns be interested?

I retract what I said about Payne. There is no need to dump him when the team could demote him to third-string backup behind Aaron Holiday. To keep refusing to use Holiday is a Mike D'Antoni-like waste of resources, and I personally hate waste.

 

[Covert Rain]

And what kind of player is John Collins?--not familiar besides knowing from the photo that he's a forward. Should the Suns be interested?

I retract what I said about Payne. There is no need to dump him when the team could demote him to third-string backup behind Aaron Holiday. To keep refusing to use Holiday is a Mike D'Antoni-like waste of resources, and I personally hate waste.

Depends on the cap situation. As @Mainstreet pointed out in another post, moving Payne might make sense depending on what else the Suns need or do.

 

[Mainstreet]

Depends on the cap situation. As @Mainstreet pointed out in another post, moving Payne might make sense depending on what else the Suns need or do.

I think I was referring to Payton. Payne is a good third point guard option unless the Suns need to use him in a trade to improve the backup position. I doubt the Suns keep Holiday since Monty did not play him much.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think I was referring to Payton. Payne is a good third point guard option unless the Suns need to use him in a trade to improve the backup position. I doubt the Suns keep Holiday since Monty did not play him much.

I thought you mentioned including Payne to clear future space but maybe that was someone else. I wouldn't be upset if they kept him as a 3rd but I wouldn't miss him on this team either if he was included in a trade package.

 

[Finito]

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They have a thing going on with Collins like we have with Ayton.

They’ve been trying to move him for 2 years I know he wanted the max but they don’t view him as a max player.

He’s a stretch 4 really good on offense doesn’t offer much on defense though.

If you could get Collins and Capela for an Ayton+ filler package I think I’d do that

 

[Mainstreet]

I thought you mentioned including Payne to clear future space but maybe that was someone else. I wouldn't be upset if they kept him as a 3rd but I wouldn't miss him on this team either if he was included in a trade package.

Yeah, we have talked about a lot of players but I'm inclined to keep Payne unless unless another team trades us an upgrade and they want a point guard in return. Even then I would be reluctant to trade Payne because he is capable of starting.

His shooting percentage was down last season compared to his previous two seasons with the Suns which was a disappointment.

 

[GatorAZ]

They have a thing going on with Collins like we have with Ayton.

They’ve been trying to move him for 2 years I know he wanted the max but they don’t view him as a max player.

He’s a stretch 4 really good on offense doesn’t offer much on defense though.

If you could get Collins and Capela for an Ayton+ filler package I think I’d do that

Collins and Capela are owed nearly $170m thru 2026.

I would like to see Collins here over some of the other scenarios suggested but Capela would need a third team.

 

[Folster]

They have a thing going on with Collins like we have with Ayton.

They’ve been trying to move him for 2 years I know he wanted the max but they don’t view him as a max player.

He’s a stretch 4 really good on offense doesn’t offer much on defense though.

If you could get Collins and Capela for an Ayton+ filler package I think I’d do that

I think a larger trade or two separate trades with Atlanta could work as well.

Suns get Bogdan and Collins.
Hawks get Ayton, Crowder, and Shamet.

Atlanta would likely move Capella to another team like Dallas after that. The Suns will still be lacking another 3/4 wing. Maybe Bogdan could be routed to another team.

 

[elindholm]

They have a thing going on with Collins like we have with Ayton.

They’ve been trying to move him for 2 years I know he wanted the max but they don’t view him as a max player.

He’s a stretch 4 really good on offense doesn’t offer much on defense though.

If you could get Collins and Capela for an Ayton+ filler package I think I’d do that

I like Capela. He's undersized but plays hard. I'm a little worried that Collins might be an empty stats guy.

 

[Mainstreet]

They have a thing going on with Collins like we have with Ayton.

They’ve been trying to move him for 2 years I know he wanted the max but they don’t view him as a max player.

He’s a stretch 4 really good on offense doesn’t offer much on defense though.

If you could get Collins and Capela for an Ayton+ filler package I think I’d do that

Collins would definitely be an upgrade over what the Suns have at power forward but he has somewhat of a slight (narrow) build.

As you note, he is not strong physical presence inside on offense or defense although he puts up decent stats.