Suns offer Amare maximum contract extension worth an estimated $110 million

[Covert Rain]

Well, you're right they never lean on that argument. And if I ever decide to let my life revolve around what people in bars say I'll rethink my position.

Steve

He did say similar social situation. I agree with that part. Even in casual conversations with sports fan...that almost always comes up when comparing your team to theirs.

I am with you though on the bar thing.....listening to drunk sports fans brag about their teams is like listening to fingernails on a chalkboard....especially Laker fans.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He did say similar social situation. I agree with that part. Even in casual conversations with sports fan...that almost always comes up when comparing your team to theirs.

I am with you though on the bar thing.....listening to drunk sports fans brag about their teams is like listening to fingernails on a chalkboard....especially Laker fans.

Agreed, it's annoying, but who really gives a *****? The people that derive some sort of superiority because of the performance of their team are losers anyway. The obsession of the championship, and the "suffering" of fans who don't win one is just overblown and sad.

As an analogy, consider the Cardinals. Decades of terrible and painful performances. While the Cards didn't win the super bowl two years ago, the last two years of Cardinals football has been so far superior to the past (sans 97) because at least they were competitive. I don't hear any Cards fans whining because they didn't win the Super Bowl.

I understand the Suns have been very successful, and perhaps that is a bit of a curse because fans become to look at it as an expectation that they'll continue to progress, and break through. For one reason or another it hasn't happened. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a team that is always not only entertaining, but one of the most successful teams in the history of the league. I honestly feel bad for all of you "championship or failure" people. You're missing the point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The logic is a bit faulty. One title, 20 bad years just doesn't happen. Obviously we know that if you win a title, you'll probably have a few good years and probably several decent years.

First off, it wasn't my logic, it was just the hypothetical situation that was being discussed. Secondly, I agree it's a highly improbable situation.

Would I want a title if that meant 20 bad years? Yes. A title is everything. You're right, it is a goal, but if your simply ok with having an entertaining product on the floor, then why try for a title in the first place? Why not just go for 82 entertaining games and leave it at that?

Okay, we are in disagreement in regards to the first statement. The rest of that paragraph has nothing to do with me. At no time have I stated I'm "simply ok with having an entertaining product on the floor". That was just part of the equation. I want a championship. I want this team to do what is necessary in order to build for that eventuality but the title itself will never be the "be-all, end-all" to me that it is for some others.

Portalnd, the Sonics, those guys have had to go through a bunch of bad years since winning their titles--but ask any of their fans and ask them if they would trade those lean years to not have a title. Guaranteed 95% of them wouldn't do it.

Maybe (probably?), but you'd never know it by reading their message boards or listening to their sports talk shows. I've yet to hear a Sonics fan call a sports show and bemoan their years of ineptitude and then finish the conversation with an "it's alright though because we have a championship".

It's easy for someone to say they'd be fine with 10 or 20 years of atrocious basketball if it meant winning a championship but in the long run it would be horrible for the franchise and many of it's fans. I'm thrilled with the Dbacks World Series win but from an organizational standpoint I suspect they'd trade it for a decade of competitive baseball that culminated in post-season losses. I'm not sure about the everyday fan so I suggest one of the Phoenix locals should go to a home game and ask the other fan there what he thinks.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Agreed, it's annoying, but who really gives a *****? The people that derive some sort of superiority because of the performance of their team are losers anyway. The obsession of the championship, and the "suffering" of fans who don't win one is just overblown and sad.

As an analogy, consider the Cardinals. Decades of terrible and painful performances. While the Cards didn't win the super bowl two years ago, the last two years of Cardinals football has been so far superior to the past (sans 97) because at least they were competitive. I don't hear any Cards fans whining because they didn't win the Super Bowl.

I understand the Suns have been very successful, and perhaps that is a bit of a curse because fans become to look at it as an expectation that they'll continue to progress, and break through. For one reason or another it hasn't happened. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a team that is always not only entertaining, but one of the most successful teams in the history of the league. I honestly feel bad for all of you "championship or failure" people. You're missing the point.

Obviously, I agree wholeheartedly even though we do seem to be in the minority here.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

He did say similar social situation. I agree with that part.

I took "similar social situation" to mean that alcohol was flowing freely. Take away the beer and tequila shots and I can't ever remember having a serious basketball conversation with anyone which devolved into a "my team has more rings than your team" argument.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

I took "similar social situation" to mean that alcohol was flowing freely. Take away the beer and tequila shots and I can't ever remember having a serious basketball conversation with anyone which devolved into a "my team has more rings than your team" argument.

Steve

I work with a bunch of guys from other states (California, New York, etc..etc..). I hear it all the time when they beat an Arizona team or we are ribbing each other.

 

[mojorizen7]

I took "similar social situation" to mean that alcohol was flowing freely. Take away the beer and tequila shots and I can't ever remember having a serious basketball conversation with anyone which devolved into a "my team has more rings than your team" argument.

Steve

You would be wrong in assuming, but go ahead and run with that angle if you like.

Sports fans talk about championships...in all walks of life,and i stand by my point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You would be wrong in assuming, but go ahead and run with that angle if you like.

Sports fans talk about championships...in all walks of life,and i stand by my point.

Actually, I don't think I assumed at all. At best your point was ambiguous but I'd suggest if you meant something other than "similar social situations" you should perhaps have said "other social situations".

As for your second point, clearly my experience differs from yours. I've talked with sports fans throughout my life and every now and then we'd get to the trash talking stage and I'd catch flak if my team had fewer championships than theirs (and there was usually alcohol involved). But the vast majority of sports conversations that I've participated in involved things like player comparisons, coaching decisions etc. I guess I'm just not much into the "my whatever is bigger than yours" conversations. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just don't consider them serious conversations.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I guess the question is whether having bragging rights is an important part of being a sports fan. Obviously a lot of people feel that it is. I'm with Steve and the others who disagree. I have some friends who are big Sixers fans, for instance, and it never even occurs to me to say, "The Suns are better than the Sixers, so there, ha ha in your face."

If the Suns ever do win a title, it will increase the amount I brag about being their fan by precisely zero. People who brag about the quality of "their" sports teams are truly of feeble mind. I could snap my fingers and call myself a Lakers fan, but that wouldn't make me a better person. It's incredible that most people don't get this.

 

[Bufalay]

I guess the question is whether having bragging rights is an important part of being a sports fan. Obviously a lot of people feel that it is. I'm with Steve and the others who disagree. I have some friends who are big Sixers fans, for instance, and it never even occurs to me to say, "The Suns are better than the Sixers, so there, ha ha in your face."

If the Suns ever do win a title, it will increase the amount I brag about being their fan by precisely zero. People who brag about the quality of "their" sports teams are truly of feeble mind. I could snap my fingers and call myself a Lakers fan, but that wouldn't make me a better person. It's incredible that most people don't get this.

All of the Lakers fans that I know seem to be very proud of their accomplishments. As if they had some part in it. One even said that he feels lucky that his team is the team that benefits from the crooked officiating in the playoffs, as if he had no choice in the matter.

 

[mojorizen7]

Actually, I don't think I assumed at all. At best your point was ambiguous but I'd suggest if you meant something other than "similar social situations" you should perhaps have said "other social situations".

As for your second point, clearly my experience differs from yours. I've talked with sports fans throughout my life and every now and then we'd get to the trash talking stage and I'd catch flak if my team had fewer championships than theirs (and there was usually alcohol involved). But the vast majority of sports conversations that I've participated in involved things like player comparisons, coaching decisions etc. I guess I'm just not much into the "my whatever is bigger than yours" conversations. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just don't consider them serious conversations.

Steve

Sports fans talk about championships.

 

[elindholm]

Sports fans talk about championships.

Only according to your narrowly defined category of "sports fans." It may surprise you to learn that there is an entire world outside of your limited social circle.

 

[mojorizen7]

Only according to your narrowly defined category of "sports fans." It may surprise you to learn that there is an entire world outside of your limited social circle.

Sports fans talk about championships.

 

[mojorizen7]

In terms of bragging rights in a bar or similiar social situation:

Invariably when someone talks crap about your favorite team vs their favorite team it comes down to "when did your team win a championship?" or "who's got the most titles?"

People don't often lean on the argument of "my team's got more winning seasons than yours."

Sports fans talk about championships.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Only according to your narrowly defined category of "sports fans." It may surprise you to learn that there is an entire world outside of your limited social circle.

eric, I think you're in the overwhelming minority here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

eric, I think you're in the overwhelming minority here.

I don't know about overwhelming but I think you're right, we're in the minority here. I suspect we would still be in the minority if you expanded "here" to everywhere (although it would be a much closer vote IMO). However, it wasn't always this way. I think as recently as 15 years ago we would have still been in step with the majority of fans. And in another 15 years those of us that feel as I do will be downright lonely.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Stupid front running sports fans talk about championships.

FTFY.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sports fans talk about championships.

Today, sports fans talk about rape, adultery, wife beating, driving under the influence of alcohol, steroids, marijuana, unpaid gambling debts and anything else ESPN tells them to talk about. Sometimes that includes championships.

My generation of sports fans talked about batting averages, rebounds per game, high post offense, RBI's, left handed quarterbacks, hitting streaks, shooting streaks and streakers because we didn't have ESPN to tell us how important the "game face" was or how embarassing it is to get "posterized". And every now and then we'd talk about championships.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't know about overwhelming but I think you're right, we're in the minority here. I suspect we would still be in the minority if you expanded "here" to everywhere (although it would be a much closer vote IMO). However, it wasn't always this way. I think as recently as 15 years ago we would have still been in step with the majority of fans. And in another 15 years those of us that feel as I do will be downright lonely.

Steve

Sad, but true. It's unfortunate that success is viewed in such a narrow lens, and ultimately a self defeating strategy. I would think it would be a pretty miserable sports fan experience if you're only happiness and view of success would be the endgame of a championship.

Personally, I thought this year for the Suns was a wonderful success. Almost every game was entertaining, and the playoff run is something we'll talk about for a long time. Would I have been happier if we beat the Lakers and won a championship? OF COURSE. But regardless it was a hell of a season, and to see such a good group of guys have such a great season was a victory in itself. To say that the season wasn't a success because they didn't win it all is missing the point, and frankly stupid. I'm glad I'm not surrounded with simpeltons who can see success only as black and white, and can appreciate levels of success.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know about overwhelming but I think you're right, we're in the minority here. I suspect we would still be in the minority if you expanded "here" to everywhere (although it would be a much closer vote IMO). However, it wasn't always this way. I think as recently as 15 years ago we would have still been in step with the majority of fans. And in another 15 years those of us that feel as I do will be downright lonely.

Steve

I don't know... 23 years ago, all people talked about in the NBA was why MJ couldn't win a title... people did the same thing with Kobe, people doing the same thing with LeBron. I think it's been pretty universal for the last twenty-five years.

can't speak to anything before that because I wasn't old enough to watch/understand basketball yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sad, but true. It's unfortunate that success is viewed in such a narrow lens, and ultimately a self defeating strategy. I would think it would be a pretty miserable sports fan experience if you're only happiness and view of success would be the endgame of a championship.

Personally, I thought this year for the Suns was a wonderful success. Almost every game was entertaining, and the playoff run is something we'll talk about for a long time. Would I have been happier if we beat the Lakers and won a championship? OF COURSE. But regardless it was a hell of a season, and to see such a good group of guys have such a great season was a victory in itself. To say that the season wasn't a success because they didn't win it all is missing the point, and frankly stupid. I'm glad I'm not surrounded with simpeltons who can see success only as black and white, and can appreciate levels of success.

the only people making this black and white is YOU at this point. No one's saying this last season wasn't fun or success. I had a lot of fun this season. I'm just saying I'd give that up to get that elusive feeling of euphoria from a title for a long time. That doesn't mean I think this season was a failure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't know... 23 years ago, all people talked about in the NBA was why MJ couldn't win a title... people did the same thing with Kobe, people doing the same thing with LeBron. I think it's been pretty universal for the last twenty-five years.

I think that's roughly when it started but I don't think it resonated with the average fan just yet. You started hearing it on ESPN and the various sports talk shows but it was probably a decade later before it became commonplace, IMO. In 1992 remember, there was still a much greater number of fans that were not influenced by talk shows and newsgroups. The process was certainly underway I just don't think it became a trend until sometime later.

Like I said, the first time I ever heard the needs-championship-for-validation conversations routinely was just before Elway won his first Super Bowl. And I remember being astounded when I first heard someone refer to Buffalo as a "loser" because they made it to 3 Super Bowls without winning it all. In conversations with my era fans we were all taken aback by that label.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I had a lot of fun this season. I'm just saying I'd give that up to get that elusive feeling of euphoria from a title for a long time. That doesn't mean I think this season was a failure.

Interesting. You mentioned earlier in the thread:

"With all the "fun" this team has given me since 1988, it's ALL outweighed by the awful feeling I've gotten from repeated kicks to the groins during those 20 years as well."

Is it outweighed or not? The second quote would indicate your enjoyment is overwhelmed by your consternation over not winning the championship. Just looking for clarification.

 

[mojorizen7]

For E and Steve: It's not about who's right or wrong. You two clowns don't even know what you're debating here. It's really amusing to watch you attack,spin,twist and fumble your way thru a simple,factual statement....just in order to accomplish......what exactly?

I'm fully convinced that you two just miss the good ole times,maybe back in high school when you were each King of the Debate Club....

Oh, and...sports fans talk about championships.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You two clowns don't even know what you're debating here. It's really amusing to watch you attack,spin,twist and fumble your way thru a simple,factual statement....just in order to accomplish......what exactly?

I'm fully convinced that you two just miss the good ole times,maybe back in high school when you were each King of the Debate Club....

Oh, and...sports fans talk about championships.

Nice try at a cheap shot. I mistakenly assumed you were above this junk. BTW, where exactly did I attack, spin, twist or fumble my way through a simple, factual statement? And why the name calling (clown - king of debate club)?

I can now add to the list. Sports fans talk about championships and then resort to childish behavior whenever it suits their purpose.

Steve