Suns offer Amare maximum contract extension worth an estimated $110 million

[Cheesebeef]

Great point. For a second, I think I forgot who owns this team. I think Sarver has tried to change the perception about him but there is alot of damage to clean up. If you get teams like Golden Freaking State trying to screw you or going back on an agreed trade etc...that doesn't bode well for your reputation.

I still think their are trades that can be made though that could have a huge impact.

trades look like our best bet, but then we gotta wait until another superstar is REALLY unhappy and we have to have the pieces needed to trade for them. Looking out on the horizon, with so many superstars being in FA this year, I don't see anyone on the horizon who might get to that point who could help us if Amare is our #1... ugh, do I cringe at that possibility. But, things can change rapidly in the course of a year. who knows.

 

[Bufalay]

At this level of play, a real superstar would be choosing between having a really incredible amount of money and a title or an even more incredible amount of money and no title.

Steve

So if the difference is $X + title vs $Y+no title where Y is 10% greater than X, but that 10% ends up being $ 10 million dollars doesn't it make sense to take Y instead of X? Its $10 million.

 

[tobiazz]

So if the difference is $X + title vs $Y+no title where Y is 10% greater than X, but that 10% ends up being $ 10 million dollars doesn't it make sense to take Y instead of X? Its $10 million.

I'd be willing to be accept as little as $10,000 to not win a championship.

$10M would be enough to have people watch after his mom 24/7.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So if the difference is $X + title vs $Y+no title where Y is 10% greater than X, but that 10% ends up being $ 10 million dollars doesn't it make sense to take Y instead of X? Its $10 million.

Not necessarily. Depending on the player, the potential for income from other sources can go up considerably by adding a championship to your resume. Even the lame NBA analyst jobs tend to be more available to the perceived winners. And what do you think Chuck would give to be able to slam a ring down Smith's throat the next time Kenny casually talks about how his championship Rockets used to do something a certain way?

I'm not saying that every star should forego salary in an effort to win a title but it would certainly benefit some of them. How much money do you think it would be worth to Carmelo to win it all? I suspect it would be huge for him both personally and professionally.

Also, keep in mind that if you're talking about the difference between 110 Mil and 120 Mil for example, the net difference to the player is much less than 10 mil.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

So if the difference is $X + title vs $Y+no title where Y is 10% greater than X, but that 10% ends up being $ 10 million dollars doesn't it make sense to take Y instead of X? Its $10 million.

I don't know many Dbacks fans that would do that deal.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't know many Dbacks fans that would do that deal.

I'm not sure if I miss your point or just the relevance of your point. Are you suggesting that Dbacks fans can't ask basketball players to leave 10 million on the table in order to win a championship because they won't leave 10 million dollars under a bleacher seat?

In the end, a player needs to do what he feels is best for him and his future. I really have no beef with someone taking the deal that best meets their needs I just tire of the post-contract lies. The "all I care about is winning" or the "it's about rings not money" nonsense wears thin. Especially when they so often turn around and take a shot at management for failing to build a winner around them.

Steve

 

[Bufalay]

I don't know many Dbacks fans that would do that deal.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Teams don't pay fans.

 

[Chaplin]

You talked about a team wanting a championship over money. The Dbacks pretty much mortgaged their future in 2001. They got a title, but their money problems are well-known. Knowing what we do now, would Dbacks fans exchange that title in 01 so that they wouldn't have these money problems now?

You asked "Why is having a title preferable to having money?" Die-hard baseball fans would have an easy answer for that.

 

[Bufalay]

You talked about a team wanting a championship over money. The Dbacks pretty much mortgaged their future in 2001. They got a title, but their money problems are well-known. Knowing what we do now, would Dbacks fans exchange that title in 01 so that they wouldn't have these money problems now?

You asked "Why is having a title preferable to having money?" Die-hard baseball fans would have an easy answer for that.

I am talking about this from a player's perspective, not a fan's. I meant, why do we assume that a player should prefer to have a championship over making more money.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You talked about a team wanting a championship over money. The Dbacks pretty much mortgaged their future in 2001. They got a title, but their money problems are well-known. Knowing what we do now, would Dbacks fans exchange that title in 01 so that they wouldn't have these money problems now?

Aah, now I get your point. I don't know the answer to this one. I suspect that most fans would say yes if it was to get them their 1st ever title (in that sport) even if they were told it would be followed by a decade of mediocrity or worse. Of course, if you ask those same fans a decade later you probably get a different answer.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

You talked about a team wanting a championship over money. The Dbacks pretty much mortgaged their future in 2001. They got a title, but their money problems are well-known. Knowing what we do now, would Dbacks fans exchange that title in 01 so that they wouldn't have these money problems now?

You asked "Why is having a title preferable to having money?" Die-hard baseball fans would have an easy answer for that.

the D-Backs could stink FOREVER for all I care after 2001. That title was well worth the money hell they're in now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Aah, now I get your point. I don't know the answer to this one. I suspect that most fans would say yes if it was to get them their 1st ever title (in that sport) even if they were told it would be followed by a decade of mediocrity or worse. Of course, if you ask those same fans a decade later you probably get a different answer.

Steve

AzSteve... it's a decade later and it could be a decade more of suckitude from the D-Backs and I couldn't care less after what they gave us in 2001 (and really that whole 1998-2002 period... only reason we didn't repeat in 2002 wasn't because of money, it was because the whole team got injured in August/September. No one remembers that the 2001 WS team won only 92 games compared to the 2002 team which won 100).

 

[mojorizen7]

the D-Backs could stink FOREVER for all I care after 2001. That title was well worth the money hell they're in now.

Agreed. It was the greatest October in AZ sports history....plus i lost a bet thx to Matt Williams hitting a timely HR that sent me running thru my apartment complex naked(sorry no pics).

 

[Covert Rain]

the D-Backs could stink FOREVER for all I care after 2001. That title was well worth the money hell they're in now.

+1.

Hell yes it was worth it. If the D-Back win 1 championship every 15 years and as a results be broke or screwed up for the next 10 and I wouldn't care. A title is the end game. If you are not willing to do what it takes you shouldn't be an owner in any professional sports franchise.

 

[AzStevenCal]

AzSteve... it's a decade later and it could be a decade more of suckitude from the D-Backs and I couldn't care less after what they gave us in 2001 (and really that whole 1998-2002 period... only reason we didn't repeat in 2002 wasn't because of money, it was because the whole team got injured in August/September. No one remembers that the 2001 WS team won only 92 games compared to the 2002 team which won 100).

I feel the same way about the Dbacks title. I'd also feel the same way if the Cards traded a decade of futility for a Super Bowl run (especially if we could trade the decade of the 90's for one this year). But I probably separate myself from many of the rest of you when it comes to the Suns.

I would not trade a decade of bad basketball for one championship. I enjoy each and every game too much to be willing to put up with a horrid run solely for a championship. I really want to see the Suns win it all but I watch and enjoy 82 games a season and that's just too much misery to trade solely for one title. Now, back-to-back championships is a different story. I wonder if I'd have to sell my soul for that or if I could just sell out a few of the people here instead?

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I feel the same way about the Dbacks title. I'd also feel the same way if the Cards traded a decade of futility for a Super Bowl run (especially if we could trade the decade of the 90's for one this year). But I probably separate myself from many of the rest of you when it comes to the Suns.

I would not trade a decade of bad basketball for one championship. I enjoy each and every game too much to be willing to put up with a horrid run solely for a championship. I really want to see the Suns win it all but I watch and enjoy 82 games a season and that's just too much misery to trade solely for one title. Now, back-to-back championships is a different story. I wonder if I'd have to sell my soul for that or if I could just sell out a few of the people here instead?

Steve

i'd give up 20 years of being bad for one title. With all the "fun" this team has given me since 1988, it's ALL outweighed by the awful feeling I've gotten from repeated kicks to the groins during those 20 years as well.

 

[Chaplin]

So Steve, it appears that you're perfectly happy with the way the franchise has been for 20 years? Fun basketball, but no title.

I would gladly give up 10 years for just one NBA title. Basketball and the Suns are my first love--a title means everything.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So Steve, it appears that you're perfectly happy with the way the franchise has been for 20 years? Fun basketball, but no title.

I would gladly give up 10 years for just one NBA title. Basketball and the Suns are my first love--a title means everything.

No, I'm not perfectly happy with the way the franchise has been for 20 years. Still, I've derived an awful lot of pleasure along the way and I wouldn't trade those 20 years of enjoyment for a title. Not if you're talking about 19 years of bad basketball.

I've always wanted the same thing from this organization. I want them to put an entertaining product on the court that has a chance to win it all or is building towards that. I want a title but I'm also there for the journey.

BTW, my only major complaint about this franchise has been the frugality based decisions of late. Selling draft picks really sucks the fun out of being a fan. Even if it didn't damage the team's short or long term growth I'd hate it because it ruins the draft fantasy many of us fans have. We live for the day that the organization finds a star late in the draft and that's kind of hard to do if you're always selling them for a few bucks.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

i'd give up 20 years of being bad for one title. With all the "fun" this team has given me since 1988, it's ALL outweighed by the awful feeling I've gotten from repeated kicks to the groins during those 20 years as well.

I know you're not alone in that but I just wouldn't make that deal. For me, a lot of my life revolves around the Suns (sad, I know) and I just don't think one moment of glory would make up for 20 years of miserable basketball.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

No, I'm not perfectly happy with the way the franchise has been for 20 years. Still, I've derived an awful lot of pleasure along the way and I wouldn't trade those 20 years of enjoyment for a title. Not if you're talking about 19 years of bad basketball.

I've always wanted the same thing from this organization. I want them to put an entertaining product on the court that has a chance to win it all or is building towards that. I want a title but I'm also there for the journey.

BTW, my only major complaint about this franchise has been the frugality based decisions of late. Selling draft picks really sucks the fun out of being a fan. Even if it didn't damage the team's short or long term growth I'd hate it because it ruins the draft fantasy many of us fans have. We live for the day that the organization finds a star late in the draft and that's kind of hard to do if you're always selling them for a few bucks.

Steve

Totally agree with Steve on this one, if you view every season you're team doesn't win a championship as a failure, why even follow sports? Invariably you're going to be severely disappointed year after year. I find the Suns over the last 20 years to be immensely enjoyable, and of course, I'd be happier if they would have found a way to win a championship, but it's not a championship or abject failure perspective to me. Sure, we've had some gut wrenching scenarios as of late to prevent us from getting a championship, but it'll make it all the sweeter when it does happen.

 

[Covert Rain]

I know you're not alone in that but I just wouldn't make that deal. For me, a lot of my life revolves around the Suns (sad, I know) and I just don't think one moment of glory would make up for 20 years of miserable basketball.

Steve

Winning a title would make all of that seem like history for me. That is the END GAME. That is the goal. I mean how many fans would the Suns have if you KNEW (some how) that this team would never win a title?

OK, I wouldn't be to thrilled if it was 20 years between titles but throwing the fans a bone say every 8-10 years or so would make me ecstatic even if we sucked for those years in between.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Winning a title would make all of that seem like history for me. That is the END GAME. That is the goal. I mean how many fans would the Suns have if you KNEW (some how) that this team would never win a title?

OK, I wouldn't be to thrilled if it was 20 years between titles but throwing the fans a bone say every 8-10 years or so would make me ecstatic even if we sucked for those years in between.

You changed the scenario a bit there with your hypothetical (8-10 years). If you told me my team had to suck in order to win a championship every 8-10 years I might feel differently about it. It would still be a disappointment to me though because as I mentioned, I love watching every single game. I can't imagine I'd feel that way if we were losing 88 to 63 every night even if we picked up a title every decade or so.

Some of our differences here are generational. Before ESPN and the like I never heard people talking about legends as failures if they didn't win it all (I think Elway was probably the first I heard this about). I never heard fans talk about a season in retrospect solely in terms of championships. And I never heard anyone refer to the regular season as meaningless. The sports media ***** changed all that for many people.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

You changed the scenario a bit there with your hypothetical (8-10 years). If you told me my team had to suck in order to win a championship every 8-10 years I might feel differently about it. It would still be a disappointment to me though because as I mentioned, I love watching every single game. I can't imagine I'd feel that way if we were losing 88 to 63 every night even if we picked up a title every decade or so.

Some of our differences here are generational. Before ESPN and the like I never heard people talking about legends as failures if they didn't win it all (I think Elway was probably the first I heard this about). I never heard fans talk about a season in retrospect solely in terms of championships. And I never heard anyone refer to the regular season as meaningless. The sports media ***** changed all that for many people.

Steve

The logic is a bit faulty. One title, 20 bad years just doesn't happen. Obviously we know that if you win a title, you'll probably have a few good years and probably several decent years.

Would I want a title if that meant 20 bad years? Yes. A title is everything. You're right, it is a goal, but if your simply ok with having an entertaining product on the floor, then why try for a title in the first place? Why not just go for 82 entertaining games and leave it at that?

Portalnd, the Sonics, those guys have had to go through a bunch of bad years since winning their titles--but ask any of their fans and ask them if they would trade those lean years to not have a title. Guaranteed 95% of them wouldn't do it.

 

[mojorizen7]

In terms of bragging rights in a bar or similiar social situation:

Invariably when someone talks crap about your favorite team vs their favorite team it comes down to "when did your team win a championship?" or "who's got the most titles?"

People don't often lean on the argument of "my team's got more winning seasons than yours."

 

[AzStevenCal]

In terms of bragging rights in a bar or similiar social situation:

Invariably when someone talks crap about your favorite team vs their favorite team it comes down to "when did your team win a championship?" or "who's got the most titles?"

People don't often lean on the argument of "my team's got more winning seasons than yours."

Well, you're right they never lean on that argument. And if I ever decide to let my life revolve around what people in bars say I'll rethink my position.

Steve