Suns Offseason Trade Speculation Thread

[asudevil83]

i would probably have to consider the original trade proposal if it were brought up. but, IMO the smarter thing to do would be to move KT and Barbosa and Jones. i just would LOVE to see a lineup of Amare/Diaw/Marion/Bell/Nash.

a couple of trades that i would consider are:

Suns trade: Barbosa
Blazers trade: Blake/2007 second rounder

Blake is a legit backup. he could provide Nash extended rest. he is in the last year of his contract though, but i see extending him to be cheaper than Barbosa. maybe 4 years $16mil.

Portland is loaded at the PG slot with Jack and Telfair. Barbosa would give them a SG who would pair well with those two.

the other trade is probably less likely, but it would help the suns out.

Suns trade: KT/Jones/2007 second via Portland
Suns get: Brown/Snyder

Hornets trade: Brown/Snyder/#12/#15
Hornets get: KT/Jones/#6

Wolves trade: #6
Wolves get: #12/#15/2007 second rounder via Portland

Brown would be an expiring contract and a serviceable big man. Snyder fills Barbosa's role off the bench.

the Hornets really want to move up in the draft. here they do so. KT fills Brown's role, while Jones gives them a pretty decent bench player with defense and a good 3pt shot.

Minnesota is a mess. in a way they are a mini version of the Knicks. long bad contracts and a crappy team. the Joe Smith fiasco has finally caught up to them, so draft picks are what they really need. trading away the #6 for a couple later picks helps them add cheap talent. with 4 decent picks in this draft, they wont be good, but they'll be building their youth back up.

--------------------

in the end, resigning TT becomes possible. if he truely wants to be a sun, and money isnt the deciding factor, then a 3 year $12mil contract sounds reasonable.

Amare/Brown
Diaw/Thomas
Marion
Bell/Snyder
Nash/Blake

right there, that's a quality 9 man deep roster. i dont expect house to stay, and would like to see Burke go home. we would be floating at around $63mil this season if we did that. and the following season at $68mil without the Atlanta pick, and probably $71mil with it. that's a little high, but MUCH more managable that the $78mil or so we would be shelling out.

with the #21 we could take Mardy Collins, and the #27 Sene.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Yeah we really aren't in any trouble when you look at it, next year trading KT and we have a solid 7 rotation (if tim thomas signs) without counting jones if we keep or trade and anything we might get from a KT trade and draft picks.

We can keep Marion and Tim Thomas and be fine.

 

[cly2tw]

The original trade proposal sounds like a win-win-win for all three teams.

With Marion on board, Mil could play their 5 best with:

Bogut/Marion/Simmons/Redd/Ford
with Gadzuric as the six man. The bench is a bit thin, we might need to give JJ to them too, since we got Peterson. The'd be a fast and great-shooting team like the Suns.

Raptors got their center and a pick for two SFs. It sounds fair. If shove comes to push, I might do the deal without Villanueva, but getting 1 Toranto pick plus Mil's pick instead.

For the Suns, with or without Villanueva, we gotta resign TT since he is proven. Our best 8-man rotation would be:

KT/Amare/Diaw/Bell/Nash

TT/LB/Peterson

Peterson can defend the SG better than Diaw I think. With Smith, Villa and Williams we are 11 deep, not counting our picks. That's good enough to win it all next year while having all the flexibility for the future.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

The original trade proposal sounds like a win-win-win for all three teams.

With Marion on board, Mil could play their 5 best with:

Bogut/Marion/Simmons/Redd/Ford
with Gadzuric as the six man. The bench is a bit thin, we might need to give JJ to them too, since we got Peterson. The'd be a fast and great-shooting team like the Suns.

Raptors got their center and a pick for two SFs. It sounds fair. If shove comes to push, I might do the deal without Villanueva, but getting 1 Toranto pick plus Mil's pick instead.

For the Suns, with or without Villanueva, we gotta resign TT since he is proven. Our best 8-man rotation would be:

KT/Amare/Diaw/Bell/Nash

TT/LB/Peterson

Peterson can defend the SG better than Diaw I think. With Smith, Villa and Williams we are 11 deep, not counting our picks. That's good enough to win it all next year while having all the flexibility for the future.

You guys have depth fever again, the Suns need to bring the core back including Marion, sure up positions of need not add more SG's and make a run.

I would rather dump KT for nothing than lose Marion for any of these players.

 

[hcsilla]

I have a couple of questions about the luxury tax.

1. Which salaries are used to calculate it? HoopsHype has some carryover salary from Eiisley listed?

I think they are simply wrong. Eisley's original contract has run till the end of 2006. They bought out him and his buy-out still counts till 2006, no longer.

2. When is it calcuated? Is it the salaries at the start of the season or the end?

At the end.

 

[George O'Brien]

The only way the Suns can keep TT at all would be for just a year or two. If TT decides he wants a five year deal, that will be end of the discussion. The advantage to a two year deal is that it would make it possible to trade him next summer if needed and if he remains the Suns would have his Bird rights.

Can a short term deal be done. In order to even try the Suns would need to
use this year's draft picks to help unload Jones while pushing Grant to retire (he has a player option so a buyout should count to this year's structure and not next year's). This takes about $4.4 from the salary structure with the anticipation that the bottom four get mimimums (which is slightly less than first round picks get).

They may still end up in luxury tax range, but not hugely next until the following season. Clearly it means the Suns will have to make some moves in 2007, but the value of players seem to go up after getting to the finals.

Is it worth giving up Jones and draft picks just to keep TT for a year or two? I think he could be difference between just returning to the WCF and winning it all. Failing to keep him and using Jones may save the Suns a couple million, but cost them a key player.

 

[Errntknght]

JCSunsfan, "If we can get Barbosa in starting at 5-6 million"

Whoa, Leandro is loveable and all but he can't play point and can't defend most SGs. That makes him a special situation player. I'd offer no more than 13 million over 4 years. He's more valuable to the Suns than most teams so he could become untradeable even at that. Its a cruel world.

 

[hcsilla]

Whoa, Leandro is loveable and all but he can't play point and can't defend most SGs. That makes him a special situation player. I'd offer no more than 13 million over 4 years. He's more valuable to the Suns than most teams so he could become untradeable even at that.

I agree.

 

[NastyOne]

PHX/TOR/MINN Trade Proposal

Phoenix Trades - Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas,PHX Trade Exception, PHX #27 First Round Pick & ATL Future First Round Pick

Phoenix Receives - Kevin Garnett, Mark Blount & MINN 2006 #36 2nd Round Pick

*****

Minnesota Trades - Kevin Garnett, Mark Blount & MINN 2006 #36 2nd Round Pick

Minnesota Receives - Charlie Villanueva, Morris Peterson, PHX Trade Exception, TOR 2006 #1 First Round Pick & ATL Future First Rounder

*****

Toronto Trades - Charlie Villanueva, Morris Peterson & TOR 2006 #1 First Round Pick

Toronto Receives - Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas & PHX 2006 #27 First Round Pick

*****


Why Phoenix Does it: Suns get someone more suitable for playoff basketball in Garnett, who would be great in D'Antoni's system because of his great passing ability and being a great athlete who commands a double team when the ball is in his hands, which would be lethal since we would now have four players on the floor who teams can't matchup with 1-1, so pick your poison.

Why Minnesota Does it: KG isn't going to lead them to anything soon without a supporting cast, so why not move him and get a young up and coming star in Charlie Villanueva and the #1 pick in the draft, while also getting Morris Peterson who average 16ppg this past season, and also getting Atlanta's future lottery pick & freeing up tons of caproom.

Why Toronto Does it: They need someone exciting to help fill the Arena, and Marion and Bosh would make a very exciting pair of Forwards, while also solving their center issues by plugging Kurt Thomas into the starting lineup.And now they can focus on upgrading their guards through freeagency.

Only thing im not sure about is our Trade Exception, is it still good? Cause we would be taking back about 23mil in contracts and sending about 21mil away, so the exception would have to be included right? I'm not sure how that whole thing works.

Robert Sarver would have to pay the luxury tax to field this team, but it would be worth it cause this team would be the favorites to win every year until Nash starts to show his age.

Anway heres the lineup...

PHX
PG-Nash
SG-Bell
SF-Diaw
PF/C-Amare
C/PF-Garnett

Bench- Tim Thomas, Barbosa, Jones ,Blount ,#21 Draft Pick (Rondo), House, #36 Draft Pick(Hassan Adams or Saer Sene) & Skita/Thompson.

Thats an unstoppable offense with the potential to avg 115 PPG.

What do you guys think? Possible or dreaming lol?

 

[slinslin]

That looks good for Minnesota.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I don' think TOR gets enough for what they give, but I personally would approve this trade for the Suns. I would, however, keep Diaw at the 5 and Garnett at the 3. You do not need to use the trade exception in this scenario because the total salaries given and taken for the Suns is within 125% of each other....

In this scenario, I might actually try to find a taker or takers for Jones and Barbosa to get a true PG. Maybe trading Jones and #21 gets us a servicable vet PG for about 18mpg. Speedy Claxton? Barbosa, who I would like to keep around, might get us a better pure shooter, but I really like Barbosa's ability to slice D's up, so it would have to be a good deal....

 

[NastyOne]

I don' think TOR gets enough for what they give, but I personally would approve this trade for the Suns. I would, however, keep Diaw at the 5 and Garnett at the 3. You do not need to use the trade exception in this scenario because the total salaries given and taken for the Suns is within 125% of each other....

In this scenario, I might actually try to find a taker or takers for Jones and Barbosa to get a true PG. Maybe trading Jones and #21 gets us a servicable vet PG for about 18mpg. Speedy Claxton? Barbosa, who I would like to keep around, might get us a better pure shooter, but I really like Barbosa's ability to slice D's up, so it would have to be a good deal....

I think Toronto gets way more than enough

Charlie Villanueva is going to be a good player, but i don't think he'll ever be as good as Marion. And the #1 pick this year isnt as sexy as some other years.There just isnt any clear cut #1 pick to choose from, since there are like 5 guys that might go #1. That imo takes the value of the pick down. While Peterson for Kurt Thomas is a wash, since both are free agents at the end of the year.

And i would agree with trading James Jones for a PG, but i would only do that if Rajon Rondo and Sergio Rodriguez stocks skyrockets during draft camps and we can't get either at #21.

And i love Barbosa, and wouldnt include him in any deals this offseason.

Leo is just oozing offensive potential, if he keeps working on his game he can become a poor mans Gilbert Arenas.

 

[elindholm]

I don't like the trade for Toronto. Villanueva has star potential, and they could probably get more than that for the #1 pick if they decide to move it.

 

[George O'Brien]

I suspect the Suns will not sign Leandro to an extension. Instead they will watch his development and then decide next summer if they are going to match an RFA offer. Why? At this point no one knows how much Leandro is worth and can't afford to overpay.

It should be noted that Leandro's situation is quite a bit different than for JJ two years ago. JJ was a starter who was a solid defender who had just started to show some offensive skills (his stats improved over the course of the prior season). The Suns were offering the same deal as they did to Q. JJ's agent was pushing for deal closer to what Manu got, even though Manu had a much better year.

Leandro is not in the same category. Offensively he's actually had a better year than JJ did 03-04, but defensively JJ was much better and Leandro had the benefit of playing with Nash. Right now Leandro's virtues are somewhat offset by his limitations such as poor strength and inadequate point guard skills.

Will he get better? Maybe. If he does he'll get a lot more money a year ago than what he'd settle for now. But if he stays the same, it is likely the Suns would have overpayed.

Watch the draft. If the Suns take someone like Diaz, an athleic scorer with limited PG skills, it means they are arent' going to lock in Leandro this summer. Instead they will wait and see with Leandro, possibly using him as trade bait.

 

[George O'Brien]

I don't like the trade for Toronto. Villanueva has star potential, and they could probably get more than that for the #1 pick if they decide to move it.

I think the Raptors would have to get the Suns #21 pick and probably both from this year, but deal really depends on just how much BC likes KT. BC paid a lot for him last summer and he would clearly be a better fit for the Raptors than Charlie V. Still he's getting older and only makes sense if BC thinks the can make a serious playoff run this season.

One reason BC might be interested is that it is hard to recruit free agents to a bad team without overpaying. Assuming they can keep Mike James, their lineup would be:

C - KT
PF - Bosh
SF - Marion
SG - Joey Graham
PG - Mike James (player options)

The problem with this team is lack of depth. Humphries and Bonner (a three point specialist) are not enough inside and Calderon is the only guard who did much for them off the bench. The Raptors need a backup center and another shooter, which is why they'd want the extra draft pick.

Knowing BC's love of three point shooters, he might be interested in James Jones for his bench while the Suns could keep TT.

This would give the Suns an eight man of:

C - Garnett
PF - Stoudemire
SF - Diaw
SG - Bell
PG - Nash

C - Blount
PF/SF - TT
SG/PG - Barbosa
SG/PG - House

This is a nice looking lineup.

From the Wolves standpoint, this deal involves a comple overhaul of the team, but with two starters including a guy 6'10", two lottery picks and some cap relief, it is probably as much as they could hope to get for KG. For the Raptors, it all depends on whether BC wants to win now.

 

[Covert Rain]

Terrible trade. So let me get this straight...we give up

• 20-10 Guy, One of our best defenders, the best rebounding small forward in the league
• Give up very good rebounder and defender in Kurt Thomas
• Give up whats bound to be a great draft pick plus another pic?

For..... Kevin Garnett?!?. Marc and the other draft pick is just a throw in.

For starters this trade is really good for the other guys. They are getting what is going to amount to 50% of our rebounding and 50% of our defense for Kevin Garnett. If we have to give up someone like Kurt Thomas in addition to Marion then the trade isn't worth it.

Even if you insert Kevin into our starting line up, you still need defense coming off the bench. Let's assume we keep Tim Thomas. He doesn't help on the defensive end much. That would be a big blow to the bench. A bench that already has not been deep enough the past two years etc...

This trade is severly underestimating Shawn Marions value or overestimating KG's. If any trade happens, it should be Marion for KG straight up with MAYBE swapping 1st round picks. It shouldn't take Marion, another impact player and draft pics. That's just rediculous.

 

[slinslin]

Kevin Garnett is a lot better than Shawn Marion that's why we have to give up more than just Marion. Garnett is a better rebounder and defender than Marion also. Kevin Garnett does everything better than Shawn Marion except finishing on the fastbreak but Garnett is also tall enough to start at center with Diaw at SF.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Terrible trade. So let me get this straight...we give up

• 20-10 Guy, One of our best defenders, the best rebounding small forward in the league
• Give up very good rebounder and defender in Kurt Thomas
• Give up whats bound to be a great draft pick plus another pic?

For..... Kevin Garnett?!?. Marc and the other draft pick is just a throw in.

For starters this trade is really good for the other guys. They are getting what is going to amount to 50% of our rebounding and 50% of our defense for Kevin Garnett. If we have to give up someone like Kurt Thomas in addition to Marion then the trade isn't worth it.

Even if you insert Kevin into our starting line up, you still need defense coming off the bench. Let's assume we keep Tim Thomas. He doesn't help on the defensive end much. That would be a big blow to the bench. A bench that already has not been deep enough the past two years etc...

This trade is severly underestimating Shawn Marions value or overestimating KG's. If any trade happens, it should be Marion for KG straight up with MAYBE swapping 1st round picks. It shouldn't take Marion, another impact player and draft pics. That's just rediculous.

Actually you are severely underestimating how good KG really is and you are underestimating the effect of playing with Nash and playing in an uptempo offense have on Shawn Marions statistics. I would say that if KG played with Nash in this offense (especially if Amare had sat out the year) he would have scored 27+ ppg and 13+ rebounds plus 4 assists. Those are MVP type numbers because - surprise - he is a league MVP only three years removed. The great thing about perception vs reality is that KG is still a star in this league, it's just that he is in bad system and situation for his talent. I feel the same way about Paul Pierce. People are forgetting how good these guys are because of the morass they are stuck in with what they have around them.

I don't understand how anyone can even compare Marion and Garnett in terms of how good each player is. The fact that we can even bring this up is because that Marion is in a situation that maximizes his stats and production and KG is in a situation where he is the focal point with little help around him. Marion is the BEST utility/garbage man in the NBA. But KG a star that needs a little help. It's not likely to happen but I would say Nash, Diaw, and STAT are more than just adequate help. KG is still a GREAT player. A new opportunity will prove this to be correct.

 

[Covert Rain]

Kevin Garnett is a lot better than Shawn Marion that's why we have to give up more than just Marion. Garnett is a better rebounder and defender than Marion also. Kevin Garnett does everything better than Shawn Marion except finishing on the fastbreak but Garnett is also tall enough to start at center with Diaw at SF.

Alot better??? Are we watching the same two players??? Lets compare:

Points Per Game
KG - 21.8
Marion - 21.8

Rebounds Per Game
KG - 12.7
Marion - 11.8

Steals Per Game
KG - 1.37
Marion - 1.98

Blocks Per Game
KG - 1.41
Marion - 1.69

Statistics would show you despite being smaller then KG, Marion is in fact the better defender. Not to mention that Kevin Garnett has plays called for him on offense and Shawn does not. Marion rivals KG in almost every stat category and surpassing KG on defense. I would say that proves, there is no way the Suns even consider that trade unless it's basically straight up.

So for every person that could argue how Marion is a product of the system, I would say he excels offensively for a person who has no plays called his way (a la KG) but manages to score as much as KG.

Now factor in his defense is better then KG and I would say that says it all.

 

[Evil Ash]

Kevin Garnett is a lot better than Shawn Marion that's why we have to give up more than just Marion. Garnett is a better rebounder and defender than Marion also. Kevin Garnett does everything better than Shawn Marion except finishing on the fastbreak but Garnett is also tall enough to start at center with Diaw at SF.

He also costs more money. If our priority is to get rid of salary this trade makes absolutely zero sense.

Garnett being traded is nothing more then a dream. We might as well come up with "realistic" trade proposals for Tim Duncan while we're at it

 

[elindholm]

Statistics would show you despite being smaller then KG, Marion is in fact the better defender.

Which statistics are those? Surely you aren't using blocks and steals to indicate overall defensive ability.

 

[elindholm]

Garnett being traded is nothing more then a dream. We might as well come up with "realistic" trade proposals for Tim Duncan while we're at it

Garnett being traded to Phoenix may very well be a silly dream, but it's fairly likely he'll be traded somewhere. Minnesota is going nowhere, Garnett is miserable, and the longer they remain in that situation together, the worse it's going to be for everyone.

Duncan, on the other hand, was one play away from this year's WCF and, most likely, another title. Not quite the same situation.

 

[George O'Brien]

In my battle with Eric over getting KG, my only concern was if the Suns could offer enough. KG is a great player:

2005-06 NBA All-Defensive Second Team
2006 J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award
Eight-time NBA All-Star
2003-04 NBA MVP
Six-time All-NBA
Six-time All-Defensive (2000-05)
Led league in rebounding (13.5 rpg) and double-doubles (69) in 2004-05.
The first NBA player to receive four Player of the Month honors in one season
Has earned the award eight times in his career
On Feb. 2, named Player of the Week for the fourth time of the season and the 12th time in his career
MVP of the 52nd Annual All-Star Game in 2003
Has recorded 14 regular-season triple-doubles and two playoff triple-doubles
A member of the gold-medal-winning USA Men's Basketball team at the 2000 Olympic Games

What makes it pointless to compare stats is that KG is double teamed almost every play and has not really played on an up tempo team. In any case, his six time all defensive team award should speak for itself on a team that struggles on defense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

JCSunsfan, "If we can get Barbosa in starting at 5-6 million"

Whoa, Leandro is loveable and all but he can't play point and can't defend most SGs. That makes him a special situation player. I'd offer no more than 13 million over 4 years. He's more valuable to the Suns than most teams so he could become untradeable even at that. Its a cruel world.

I'm all for it if you could do it, but it seems to me that he command a little more than that. Maybe 4-5 million.

Its really hard to guess how these things will go.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As a basic rule of thumb, we will not be using our trade exception, since, by its very nature, we would be increasing salary.

Again, Sarver is not going into lux tax land unless it makes fiscal sense to do so. Garnett might be one case in which he would do it, depending on how marketable KG would be. He far more marketable than Shawn.

I love Shawn, but the one player I would trade him for is Garnett (ok, I'd go with LeBron too but...). Statistics are similar, but Garnett is a better position rebounder, he is a much bigger defender--he is at least 7-0.

Its intriguing, but not likely. A front line of Garnett, Amare, and Diaw would be big AND fast. But Marion is faster, significantly faster than Garnett.

In this trade scenario though, we are really giving up the farm to get him. If Garnett gets traded, its because he WANTs to get traded, and if that is the case, we wouldn't have to give up so much to get him (especially both those picks).