Sun's prepared to give JJ max? CNN/SI

[F-Dog]

If Joe Johnson is going to be the team's PG of the future, he really needs to learn how to pass. Right now he comes off the pick with only one thing on his mind.

I'd love to see the Suns run a few Kings plays, especially when Nash is on the bench. They've got to get good at them before they'll be effective, though, and teams will have to respect Amare's outside shot a little more.



I don't think the Suns have any choice with Joe J--they have to keep him, so they'll have to overpay. The Suns should have no problem building depth anyway, but it's all about how much money Robert Sarver is willing to spend.

(I should probably just use that paragraph as my sig, instead of constantly repeating myself. )

 

[fordronken]

I don't remember the Suns running many, if any pick-and-rolls with Amare and Joe, even while Nash was sitting. I think that could develop into a heck of a play. Not Nash-Amare level, but pretty ungaurdable anyway, with Jimmy Jackson taking Joe's spot on the wing.

 

[F-Dog]

I don't remember the Suns running many, if any pick-and-rolls with Amare and Joe, even while Nash was sitting. I think that could develop into a heck of a play. Not Nash-Amare level, but pretty ungaurdable anyway, with Jimmy Jackson taking Joe's spot on the wing.

IIRC the Suns ran that play plenty of times--in fact, I think it was their main play during the few stretches where Nash was resting and Joe J and Amare were both on the floor.

The problem was that the play almost never ended with Joe J dishing to Amare. Joe would either shoot the open jumper or drive to the basket for his little runner...

 

[Chaz]

I don't remember the Suns running many, if any pick-and-rolls with Amare and Joe, even while Nash was sitting. I think that could develop into a heck of a play. Not Nash-Amare level, but pretty ungaurdable anyway, with Jimmy Jackson taking Joe's spot on the wing.

If Joe was better at passing to Amare on that play it would be unstoppable.

I have seen them run it quite a bit. I have only seen JJ pass the ball inside off of that play a couple of times.

 

[fordronken]

If Joe was better at passing to Amare on that play it would be unstoppable.

I have seen them run it quite a bit. I have only seen JJ pass the ball inside off of that play a couple of times.

Hmm. Maybe I don't remember them because they ended being more of picks than pick-and-rolls.

 

[Chaz]

Hmm. Maybe I don't remember them because they ended being more of picks than pick-and-rolls.

Yea, I don't know that they run it as a set play. Amare often comes up to set a screen for whomever is handling the ball.

It just seems like Joe is not comfortable making that pass inside. He will usually shoot the ball in that situation.


(Of course then maybe Amare needs to learn how to make himself more available. I think Nash has enough experience to compensate for Amare's lack of it.)

 

[Joe Mama]

It's a terrible idea two try to manipulate the market to that degree. To announce quietly that you are prepared to match any offer, and wait the 2 weeks to do so, is a blatant attempt to re-sign a player cheaper.

People must truly think JJ and his agent are stupid. Do you think Swift is happy with the knowledge that he is getting paid less because of Memphis' tactics? If Phoenix pull's the "we're going to wait two weeks before matching any offer" route, don't be suprised if Arm Teller (JJ's highly competent agent) tells Joe to inform BC to forget about re-signing him.

I would if I were Swift and I would if I were Joe. No way a prized free agent is going to get frozen out of the market like that. Matching any offer and truthfully telling potential suitors that you are going to do so is one thing, but trying to screw a player out of millions is a bad tactic. It may have worked once (although Swift probably isn't that happy), don't expect players and agents to fall for that one again.

I doubt Bryan Colangelo would even attempt it.

this is exactly what I was saying. Assuming that JJ's first choice really would be to re-sign with the Phoenix Suns he still can't be happy with them trying to chase off other suitors. If I was another team that really wanted him I would sign in to an offer sheet anyhow. That two-week waiting period will almost certainly be cut down to 5-7 days with the new CBA. The LA Clippers in particular really couldn't go wrong if they do want JJ. If the Phoenix Suns match the offer they are forced to pay big money for him, if not the LA Clippers get their man.

Come on Joe they are not going to trade JJ, the article sayes he may be able to take over the point after Nash. Neither Q or Marion can bring the ball up, there are more limitations with them than Johnson. There are indications that Marion might be unhappy not so for JJ.

What is the difference of signing and trading JJ or trading Q. We in essence signed Q last year and traded him this year. I think it would look a lot worse on the franchise if they S&T JJ , then getting a player away from a worthless franchise (LA Clippers) and gave him a chance to excel. We did Q a favor and helped his stock. Again this is not anti-Q post, it is NBA is a business post and if Q is traded by the Suns I think they would accomodate his performance this year and move him to a team that could use him.

I said sign and trade JJ if he insists on going to another team . You can't sign and trade a player against his will. If Q lets it be known that he would like to go somewhere else then there's no problem with trading him.

I don't remember the Suns running many, if any pick-and-rolls with Amare and Joe, even while Nash was sitting. I think that could develop into a heck of a play. Not Nash-Amare level, but pretty ungaurdable anyway, with Jimmy Jackson taking Joe's spot on the wing.

Obviously most of the pick and rolls went through Steve Nash, but I definitely remember quite a few with JJ. He really struggles to get the ball back to the pick man. Oftentimes Amare Stoudemire would be wide open rolling to the basket, but JJ was incapable of getting him the ball.

Joe Mama

 

[lancelet's cousin]

I don't remember the Suns running many, if any pick-and-rolls with Amare and Joe, even while Nash was sitting. I think that could develop into a heck of a play. Not Nash-Amare level, but pretty ungaurdable anyway, with Jimmy Jackson taking Joe's spot on the wing.

I've thought about the JJ/Amaré P&R myself. I think it is something that will be worked out in the off-season. Its nice to know that we averaged 110 ppg without ironing out all of our offensive weapons.

We will re-sign JJ and we will improved both defensively and offensively next year. We don't need to lose any member of our core, just add a few role players and rely on the certain improvement of STAT, JJ, Q, and our team play.

JJ is an excellent passer and has been since he came into the league. Its why he was a lottery pick. But it rare for two players to develop the P&R right off the bat like Nash and Amaré did. JJ and STAT can get their timing and technique down by next year.

The discussions of trading Marion or any other of our other starters is unfounded speculation at best. There is no other option out there that is better than the obvious route of improving through the draft and a handful of FA signings. I will be dissapointed if we only average 110 ppg next year. And our team D simply needs to improve so that we can play defense in the 4th quarter. And we just need a little more size on the bench to give teams like SA and Houston a different look when needed. We don't need a new starting 5.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

this is exactly what I was saying. Assuming that JJ's first choice really would be to re-sign with the Phoenix Suns he still can't be happy with them trying to chase off other suitors. If I was another team that really wanted him I would sign in to an offer sheet anyhow. That two-week waiting period will almost certainly be cut down to 5-7 days with the new CBA. The LA Clippers in particular really couldn't go wrong if they do want JJ. If the Phoenix Suns match the offer they are forced to pay big money for him, if not the LA Clippers get their man.

I don't think you can relate the Swift and JJ situation. With Swift, Memphis offered a moderate contract - while Swift had delusions of granduer. Instead of comprimising, Swift wanted the huge deal no matter what. Since Memphis held his rights, they did the right thing by saying that they would match any offer. It isn't like Memphis was trying to low ball Swift, Swift was trying to high ball Memphis. The fact that Swift didn't get a contract is because no one in the league thought he was worth his demands - and if they signed him to a reasonable amount it was obvious Memphis would match.

With JJ, the Suns know how high JJ's value is. He earned himself at least a starting contract of 7million - and the Suns know it. He will get big money because the value ideas aren't that far apart. If the Suns and JJ don't get a deal done, another team will gamble with him and pay above market value because it isn't totally unreasonable. Once that happens, the Suns will match it (after waiting the full time of course). Like Joe said, there is always one team with cap space that will wait the 2 weeks on the chance it goes through (like the Suns did with Q).

 

[frdbtr]

Agreed.

But, if the Suns give JJ the max (which IS a possibility...I'd say about 20% probable that SOMEONE throws a max offer at him) you can say goodbye to Marion.

There is no way in hell that the Suns have THREE max players on the roster. Not to mention Nash and Q's contracts.

I disagree, the Suns will keep this core together if they can win a championship with them. No one complains about max contracts when a team is winning championships. They could do it and be profitable because of ticket sales and TV revenue.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I disagree, the Suns will keep this core together if they can win a championship with them. No one complains about max contracts when a team is winning championships. They could do it and be profitable because of ticket sales and TV revenue.

TV renenues will not change.........They are locked into their deal with Fox for a little longer, and adding other markets gets split up among the league.

They could MAYBE be profitable with a payroll in the 60 millions, depending on luxury tax. There is no way they could be profitable at 70 million.

A team really needs to stay in the 50 million range of payroll in order to not bleed.

 

[coloradosun]

I disagree, the Suns will keep this core together if they can win a championship with them. No one complains about max contracts when a team is winning championships. They could do it and be profitable because of ticket sales and TV revenue.

People complain about max contracts because they do not get you to the finals.

Of the top 30 paid players in the league, only three have championship rings. Duncan, Shaq and Kobe. It looked like only 5 have been to the finals, add Iverson and Kidd (there may be more, can't recall if Sprewell or Eddie Jones went to the finals). Do max contracts get you to the finals, odds are no.

 

[elindholm]

Sprewell was on the Knicks team that made the Cinderella run to the Finals in, uh, whatever year that was. But still, that's an impressive statistic, coloradosun, thanks for figuring that out. I wouldn't have guessed that there was such a poor correlation between having ultrastars on your roster and playoff success.

 

[myrondizzo]

i wonder how many of them even made the playoffs this year?

 

[Joe Mama]

People complain about max contracts because they do not get you to the finals.

Of the top 30 paid players in the league, only three have championship rings. Duncan, Shaq and Kobe. It looked like only 5 have been to the finals, add Iverson and Kidd (there may be more, can't recall if Sprewell or Eddie Jones went to the finals). Do max contracts get you to the finals, odds are no.

Of course only 5 teams have won championships in the last 15 years. Only last year's Detroit Pistons didn't have a maximum player. I believe all of the other teams had two of them.

Joe Mama

 

[Cody]

I like the part about JJ taking over at point in the future...We would have an advantage with him at point, most of the guards are smaller than him so he could shoot right over them or just post them up.

 

[F-Dog]

Of course only 5 teams have won championships in the last 15 years. Only last year's Detroit Pistons didn't have a maximum player. I believe all of the other teams had two of them.

Joe Mama

Rasheed Wallace made $17 million last year IIRC. That counts as a max contract, right?


Seriously, I agree with your point. If you think your team won't win a championship with a max contract player, try winning a championship without one (or more). Detroit was the only second-round team this year without at least one max contract on the books.