Suns @ Rockets 3-15-19

[Mainstreet]

Pretty exciting the Suns took the Rockets down to the wire on their home court.

Lots of good defense was played.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think we understand each other. You think Bridges will be better than Bowen. This would be my minimum expectation so no disagreement there.

Where we may disagree, I was disheartened when the Suns traded the future unprotected Miami pick and #16 for him.

Sometimes I feel I grade Bridges harder than others is because he didn't catch my eye in college.

You do seem uncharacteristically hard on him. I admit I wasn't sold at the time but the more I think about I feel safe saying he was much better than anyone we could selected at #16. I liked Jalen Brunson but I knew that would have been quite a reach at #16. We could have had him at #31 and passed then also so it wasn't to be. So there was no one at #16 I was excited about. That's where the trade comes in. I think it's mischaracterized as dealing 2 first round picks for him because one of those picks was at that draft when there wasn't a great player for us to take. So it was more us trading up to get someone we liked but knew wouldn't fall to us where we had our 2nd pick. The Miami pick isn't as valuable as some make it out to be. Yes, some teams may hold it in high regard but I think most respected GM's around the league know that Riley won't allow that pick to be a lottery pick. He'll plan a rebuild of sorts to get them to the playoffs just so they don't give up a lotto pick. Philly was high on that pick but they didn't have a GM at that point in time, Brett Brown was filling in as GM after the Colangelo debacle. How he viewed the Heat pick was different than how someone like Ainge would.

As far as the Bowen comparisons I can see that and made the comment in another thread when Oubre was compared to Bowen but I think Bridges projects to be a better Raja Bell, without the drama. Bell didn't perform that well outside of Phoenix but he did have a few good years here. Bridges will bring more offensively than Bowen and he should since he was a lottery pick. Bell was a good complimentary offensive player while here but outside of playing with Nash he wasn't anyone that was talked about a lot. He scored in the low teens and I think Bridges should do the same for us. He'll be a more consistent defender also. Bell seemed to do his best when it was a high profile matchup and he phoned it in sometimes against lesser players. If Bridges can be like a modern Raja Bell though I'll be happy with that.

 

[Mainstreet]

You do seem uncharacteristically hard on him. I admit I wasn't sold at the time but the more I think about I feel safe saying he was much better than anyone we could selected at #16. I liked Jalen Brunson but I knew that would have been quite a reach at #16. We could have had him at #31 and passed then also so it wasn't to be. So there was no one at #16 I was excited about. That's where the trade comes in. I think it's mischaracterized as dealing 2 first round picks for him because one of those picks was at that draft when there wasn't a great player for us to take. So it was more us trading up to get someone we liked but knew wouldn't fall to us where we had our 2nd pick. The Miami pick isn't as valuable as some make it out to be. Yes, some teams may hold it in high regard but I think most respected GM's around the league know that Riley won't allow that pick to be a lottery pick. He'll plan a rebuild of sorts to get them to the playoffs just so they don't give up a lotto pick. Philly was high on that pick but they didn't have a GM at that point in time, Brett Brown was filling in as GM after the Colangelo debacle. How he viewed the Heat pick was different than how someone like Ainge would.

As far as the Bowen comparisons I can see that and made the comment in another thread when Oubre was compared to Bowen but I think Bridges projects to be a better Raja Bell, without the drama. Bell didn't perform that well outside of Phoenix but he did have a few good years here. Bridges will bring more offensively than Bowen and he should since he was a lottery pick. Bell was a good complimentary offensive player while here but outside of playing with Nash he wasn't anyone that was talked about a lot. He scored in the low teens and I think Bridges should do the same for us. He'll be a more consistent defender also. Bell seemed to do his best when it was a high profile matchup and he phoned it in sometimes against lesser players. If Bridges can be like a modern Raja Bell though I'll be happy with that.

I think I am more than fair to Bridges.

When he plays well I give him credit, when he doesn't I offer criticism like I would on any other player. However, I think he has a fan base on the forum that is slanted in his favor. They do not like to hear criticism. Even Ayton can get criticized with less backlash.

I think comparing Bridges to Bowen is a disservice to him as a player for anyone who has watched Bruce Bowen play.

Raja Bell is a much fairer comparison.

As a Suns fan I want every player on the team to succeed but I am not going to give them a free ride.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think I am more than fair to Bridges.

When he plays well I give him credit, when he doesn't I offer criticism like I would on any other player. However, I think he has a fan base on the forum that is slanted in his favor. They do not like to hear criticism. Even Ayton can get criticized with less backlash.

I think comparing Bridges to Bowen is a disservice to him as a player for anyone who has watched Bruce Bowen play.

Raja Bell is a much fairer comparison.

As a Suns fan I want every player on the team to succeed but I am not going to give them a free ride.

I don't think I conveyed my point properly. I think you're fair to Bridges the player but I think you judge the trade that brought him a bit slanted, believing we could have done better than that. Do you get what I'm saying?

I can agree with you about how negatives brought up towards Bridges are shot down pretty quickly here but I think one of the reasons that happens is he was the #10 pick vs the #1 pick like Ayton. Comparing Bridges to what came after him or who else may have been available to us is different than it is with Ayton. Considering where and how we got Bridges I think he's playing up to his draft position but represents more than just the #10 pick to us, he's also that Miami pick and I think that's forgotten sometimes.

 

[SirStefan32]

The thing with Bridges is that he is as good defensively as Booker is offensively. I am not dissing Raja Bell here as I was always a big fan, but Bridges is already better than Raja was in his first three seasons. Defensively, I'd argue that he may be better than Raja ever was, simply due to his length.

My only issue with Bridges is that he is way too passive on offense 90% of the time. This will take care of itself. He is showing some cutting ability, he is moving better without the ball, he is actually passing extremely well. His shot will come along in time, and he will become more assertive.

As for Miami pick, that's the most overrated asset we've seen in years. That pick two years from now isn't gonna be worth crap. Miami is a big market, and they have competent management.

Edit, Raja was also 24 in his rookie season.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think I conveyed my point properly. I think you're fair to Bridges the player but I think you judge the trade that brought him a bit slanted, believing we could have done better than that. Do you get what I'm saying?

I can agree with you about how negatives brought up towards Bridges are shot down pretty quickly here but I think one of the reasons that happens is he was the #10 pick vs the #1 pick like Ayton. Comparing Bridges to what came after him or who else may have been available to us is different than it is with Ayton. Considering where and how we got Bridges I think he's playing up to his draft position but represents more than just the #10 pick to us, he's also that Miami pick and I think that's forgotten sometimes.

I think you nailed our difference. I would not have traded the unprotected Miami pick plus #16 for Bridges.

 

[Mainstreet]

The thing with Bridges is that he is as good defensively as Booker is offensively. I am not dissing Raja Bell here as I was always a big fan, but Bridges is already better than Raja was in his first three seasons. Defensively, I'd argue that he may be better than Raja ever was, simply due to his length.

My only issue with Bridges is that he is way too passive on offense 90% of the time. This will take care of itself. He is showing some cutting ability, he is moving better without the ball, he is actually passing extremely well. His shot will come along in time, and he will become more assertive.

As for Miami pick, that's the most overrated asset we've seen in years. That pick two years from now isn't gonna be worth crap. Miami is a big market, and they have competent management.

Edit, Raja was also 24 in his rookie season.

My thought is Raja Bell is a much better comparison for Bridges than Bruce Bowen... not that either are correct.

I always valued the Miami pick for it's trade value combined with other assets.

This kind of takes us full circle. LOL

 

[Bufalay]

I think you nailed our difference. I would not have traded the unprotected Miami pick plus #16 for Bridges.

The Suns got those two picks in a trade with Miami for Dragic. They traded Dragic for Bridges. I think it was a good trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

Some comments from Kokoskov and Holmes about the game below. The Suns were so close.

Here are some excerpts from a Duane Rankin article:


"Very disappointed that we couldn't close the game," Suns coach Igor Kokoskov said. "Losing the game in the last couple of minutes, last couple of possessions. It makes us feel satisfied and pleased with the effort and executing the game plan, but on the flipside, we were so close. We had a chance to win this game. If my team won, I think we deserved to by the way we played. I was proud of the guys."

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Switching essentially everything, the Rockets left Harden to guard Ayton in the post. Harden knocked the ball away from him and Ayton settled for tougher shots.

"That's on me," Kokoskov said. "We don't face switching necessarily every night and they were switching on the ball, off-the-ball screen. They didn't care, really. We were not precise when it comes to where the ball goes. Our spacing was not crisp and that's always you put that on yourself as the coach. Again, we don't play against that type of defense every night for us to feel comfortable."

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"Tough loss, tough loss," said Suns reserve big Richaun Holmes, who tweaked his right knee during the game, but says he's fine. "We fought. We were there to the end. We feel like we executed our game plan well. They just made more plays in the end."


https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...houston-rockets-game-score-result/3182986002/

 

[Mainstreet]

The good news is that Holmes says he will be fine after he reportedly tweaked his right knee.

 

[Hoop Head]

Switching essentially everything, the Rockets left Harden to guard Ayton in the post. Harden knocked the ball away from him and Ayton settled for tougher shots.

"That's on me," Kokoskov said. "We don't face switching necessarily every night and they were switching on the ball, off-the-ball screen. They didn't care, really. We were not precise when it comes to where the ball goes. Our spacing was not crisp and that's always you put that on yourself as the coach. Again, we don't play against that type of defense every night for us to feel comfortable."

I'd like for either Ayton to take it on himself or for the front office to sacrifice someone like Daniels for the task of teaching Ayton how to school a smaller defender in the post. Put Daniels on him in practice and don't let Ayton stop until he's able to consistently score without giving up the ball. I'd say put Booker on him but whenever Ayton realizes he has that much size and weight on him he should be able to mow through him. I don't want to see Booker get discouraged when his defense seems to be a little more than just effort. Although stopping Ayton a few times might actually build Booker's confidence some. Whatever they're doing to get Booker playing defense needs to continue, they need to teach Ayton how to kill a man in the post and we won't need Daniels next year so, sorry Troy but Ayton can thank you when he's inducted in the Hall 20 years from now.

I hope there's a plan for this offseason and teaching Ayton how to work inside because he won't take the next step in his career until he can learn to destroy guys the size of Harden when they get switched onto him. It shouldn't be a key thing we're talking about that cost us the game. I don't blame Ayton alone for that either. He needs to be taught and that's been clear since day 1. Him not being taught seems to be a coaching issue more than Ayton being an unwilling student.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Ayton would start posting up with at least one foot in the lane he would have so many good options to score.

For some reason he does not concentrate on doing this. It could date back to his days at the UofA where he played power forward.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hate koko’s Comments. It’s fine to say “I loved the effort” but if you win you deserve the win, if you lost you deserve the loss, unless there’s extenuating circumstances like you didn’t have your best players (and you can point to warren but they’ve had most recent success without him - oh and the rockets were without Paul - I’ll take that trade off every day if the week) or the refs REALLY screwed you. And I can’t stand “we don’t see that defense much” - you’re professionals. How much adaptation is necessary to know to throw it into your 7’1 guy against a 6’5 guy? And why can’t that 7’1 guy take advantage of that matchup? I understand harden is crafty, but that should account for one or two good defensive plays against ayton and should result in Ayton going off on the others (of which there should have been many). We are 70 games into the season. The rookies (coach and players) aren’t rookies anymore. “We don’t know” is no longer an acceptable excuse.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd like for either Ayton to take it on himself or for the front office to sacrifice someone like Daniels for the task of teaching Ayton how to school a smaller defender in the post. Put Daniels on him in practice and don't let Ayton stop until he's able to consistently score without giving up the ball. I'd say put Booker on him but whenever Ayton realizes he has that much size and weight on him he should be able to mow through him. I don't want to see Booker get discouraged when his defense seems to be a little more than just effort. Although stopping Ayton a few times might actually build Booker's confidence some. Whatever they're doing to get Booker playing defense needs to continue, they need to teach Ayton how to kill a man in the post and we won't need Daniels next year so, sorry Troy but Ayton can thank you when he's inducted in the Hall 20 years from now.

I hope there's a plan for this offseason and teaching Ayton how to work inside because he won't take the next step in his career until he can learn to destroy guys the size of Harden when they get switched onto him. It shouldn't be a key thing we're talking about that cost us the game. I don't blame Ayton alone for that either. He needs to be taught and that's been clear since day 1. Him not being taught seems to be a coaching issue more than Ayton being an unwilling student.

Make it Melton. He’s known for being tough nosed and a good defender. Daniels wouldn’t be a good litmus test.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Ayton would start posting up with at least one foot in the lane he would have so many good options to score.

For some reason he does not concentrate on doing this. It could date back to his days at the UofA where he played power forward.

Agree. He doesn’t even try to establish deep post position. Guys like embiid set up a foot from the basket and anchor when he posts up. Ayton definitely needs to learn it.

 

[SirStefan32]

I get a sense that Igor takes it easy on the rookies. That's probably some Larry Brown influence. He made comments about not expecting much from the rookies, he's consistently gone with veterans players nol matter how bad they are, and while many players have been playing out of position, note that Ayton and Bridges have not. Ayton has not had to play with another big man much, and when he has (with Bender), he was clearly a Center. All the wings have had PF assignments except for the Bridges.

This is either a brilliant move or a very stubborn one. I really don't know which one. In general, I like the idea, but I think when two of your top five players are rookies and the team is bad, you kind of have to put some stress and pressure on the rookies. Perhaps there is a compromise between the two schools of thought, and you have the rookies focus on one or two things. In Ayton's case, I'd say help defense and posting up would be reasonable goals.

Note that I am not necessarily giving Igor crap, as he may well be right to basically let the rookies be rookies, but I thought it would be an interesting thing to point out that he seems to have a certain philosophy about the rookies. He lets them play, but he really doesn't want to rely on them, overwhelm them, etc.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I get a sense that Igor takes it easy on the rookies. That's probably some Larry Brown influence. He made comments about not expecting much from the rookies, he's consistently gone with veterans players nol matter how bad they are, and while many players have been playing out of position, note that Ayton and Bridges have not. Ayton has not had to play with another big man much, and when he has (with Bender), he was clearly a Center. All the wings have had PF assignments except for the Bridges.

This is either a brilliant move or a very stubborn one. I really don't know which one. In general, I like the idea, but I think when two of your top five players are rookies and the team is bad, you kind of have to put some stress and pressure on the rookies. Perhaps there is a compromise between the two schools of thought, and you have the rookies focus on one or two things. In Ayton's case, I'd say help defense and posting up would be reasonable goals.

Note that I am not necessarily giving Igor crap, as he may well be right to basically let the rookies be rookies, but I thought it would be an interesting thing to point out that he seems to have a certain philosophy about the rookies. He lets them play, but he really doesn't want to rely on them, overwhelm them, etc.

Great insight. I think what you point out is likely accurate, and it’s not a bad philosophy.

 

[Western Font]

Back to Jackson ... It's weird how that draft is turning out to be as deep as people thought, just not in the draft order most thought. Honestly, I probably would have used the #1 pick on Fultz, Ball, and Jackson in exactly that order, too. Goes without saying I'd rather have Tatum, Markannen, Mitchell, and maybe a couple others right now, probably including Ball.

Really not sure what to do about Jackson. He still has two years on a rookie deal after this. I wonder how much value that plus "upside" has around the league. Or maybe other GMs are going to need to see it consistently to believe it, just like we do.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Tyler could have made the difference in this game.

 

[BC867]

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Switching essentially everything, the Rockets left Harden to guard Ayton in the post. Harden knocked the ball away from him and Ayton settled for tougher shots.

"That's on me," Kokoskov said. "We don't face switching necessarily every night and they were switching on the ball, off-the-ball screen. They didn't care, really. We were not precise when it comes to where the ball goes. Our spacing was not crisp and that's always you put that on yourself as the coach. Again, we don't play against that type of defense every night for us to feel comfortable."

So now, Kokoskov is his own biggest critic. And his solution is, "...we don't play against that type of defense every night..."

He is not even setting a goal to have the team ready for each game. He remains so unqualified to be an NBA Head Coach.

But he comes cheap! With no one above him in the organization with the credentials to do anything about it.

Or give us hope for the future when they dump him and replace him with still another weak replacement.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So now, Kokoskov is his own biggest critic. And his solution is, "...we don't play against that type of defense every night..."

He is not even setting a goal to have the team ready for each game. He remains so unqualified to be an NBA Head Coach.

But he comes cheap! With no one above him in the organization with the credentials to do anything about it.

Or give us hope for the future when they dump him and replace him with still another weak replacement.

Man you read a lot into comments. He was simply explaining that they don't play that type of defense often, so it threw them. Ayton is a rookie, after all. Not that it is his solution. You must think everyone in your world is an idiot.

 

[Hoop Head]

So now, Kokoskov is his own biggest critic. And his solution is, "...we don't play against that type of defense every night..."

He is not even setting a goal to have the team ready for each game. He remains so unqualified to be an NBA Head Coach.

But he comes cheap! With no one above him in the organization with the credentials to do anything about it.

Or give us hope for the future when they dump him and replace him with still another weak replacement.

Stop acting like you know what it takes to be an NBA head coach. You don't know what goals Igor sets or doesn't but one thing that is certain is you will twist it up and around to point right back at Sarver being to blame.

Do you check your closet for Sarver before going to bed at night also? Watch out, the day you don't will be the day he's there.

 

[BC867]

Man you read a lot into comments. He was simply explaining that they don't play that type of defense often, so it threw them. Ayton is a rookie, after all. Not that it is his solution. You must think everyone in your world is an idiot.

Words like 'idiot' are not in my world, JC. As I've quoted before ... attack problems, not people.

I referred to lack of preparation for each game this far into the season. Or reacting in-game.

That is up to the Coach. We've seen hardly any progress in that area. He himself said it's "on" him. I didn't read anything into it. It is what Koko said.

Rooting for a team doesn't mean they can do no wrong. In any given play, sure. But when it is a trend, fans react.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Words like 'idiot' are not in my world, JC. As I've quoted before ... attack problems, not people.

I referred to lack of preparation for each game this far into the season. Or reacting in-game.

That is up to the Coach. We've seen hardly any progress in that area. He himself said it's "on" him. I didn't read anything into it. It is what Koko said.

Rooting for a team doesn't mean they can do no wrong. In any given play, sure. But when it is a trend, fans react.

You may not say the word, but your comments indicate that is what you think. And it’s not what he said. It’s what you decided he meant by what he said.

 

[BC867]

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It’s what you decided he meant by what he said.

'Sounds like an old comedy routine. Or an economist. I chuckled, JC. Thanks for bringing levity to the conversation. Really!