Suns @ Rockets Game Thread

jibikao

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George O'Brien said:
I thought Burke did a passable job tonight. His only real problem (other than trying to make a play under the basket with Yao on him :thud: ) was that the Rockets were able to create defensive switches that put defending T-Mac. Not fair.

Did he play great? No. But the team did not lose ground when he was in, which is the main issue with backups.

You REALLY love Burke don't you? lol I didn't watch the game so I have no comment on him last night but judging from the games I've watched, Burke looks horrible. You are probably the only one who would praise Burke... well, now that Kurt is hurt, Burke needs to step up.
 

myrondizzo

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jibikao said:
You REALLY love Burke don't you? lol I didn't watch the game so I have no comment on him last night but judging from the games I've watched, Burke looks horrible. You are probably the only one who would praise Burke... well, now that Kurt is hurt, Burke needs to step up.
i thought that burke had a decent game. not great or even good. but he looked less last than normal.
 

fordronken

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Burke was adequate last night. He played decent defense on Yao and didn't make an ass of himself much. He really only had two noticeably bad plays:

1) Getting the ball under the basket and travelling.
2) Going for the steal on Yao and getting burned.
 

jbeecham

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He had one other bad play that I remember where he left Yao to chase a PG that came around a screen and the PG passed it right around him to an open Yao for a dunk or layup. He'll learn to stay with Yao and let the PG shoot the jumper. I thought he did a decent job last night, nothing special but serviceable and it gave Diaw a little rest.
 

George O'Brien

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jibikao said:
You REALLY love Burke don't you? lol I didn't watch the game so I have no comment on him last night but judging from the games I've watched, Burke looks horrible. You are probably the only one who would praise Burke... well, now that Kurt is hurt, Burke needs to step up.

Actually I don't like Burke even close to the amount you hate him. The fact that you find it appropriate to attack a guy's performance when you didn't even watch the game, that's pretty lame.

Why bother to rag on Burke. He's more than a warm body with a laptop like Paul Shirley or a "never saw a shot he didn't like" guy like Walter McCarty. On his good days, he's been better at defending against power players than Voskuhl at about a third the price.

What do you want? If your answer is a guy with a lot more talent and experience for a veteran minimum contract - yeh sure, good luck.

For the most part, D'Antoni prefers to play guards than a banger like Burke. If that's what you want, then you should be very happy. Why rag on Burke if you are getting what you want? :confused:
 

jibikao

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George O'Brien said:
Actually I don't like Burke even close to the amount you hate him. The fact that you find it appropriate to attack a guy's performance when you didn't even watch the game, that's pretty lame.

Why bother to rag on Burke. He's more than a warm body with a laptop like Paul Shirley or a "never saw a shot he didn't like" guy like Walter McCarty. On his good days, he's been better at defending against power players than Voskuhl at about a third the price.

What do you want? If your answer is a guy with a lot more talent and experience for a veteran minimum contract - yeh sure, good luck.

For the most part, D'Antoni prefers to play guards than a banger like Burke. If that's what you want, then you should be very happy. Why rag on Burke if you are getting what you want? :confused:

Wow wow wow, hold on there. Did you read what I wrote? I said from the games I've watched, I think he is horrible. I said I didn't watch last night's game so I have no comment on him. He IS horrible. Ok, so he had an okay game last night and I said he needs to have an "okay" game from now on because Kurt is injured and he is really our only "big guy".

I am not the only one who thinks Burke is terrible. Some other people even think he should even leave NBA and I am not even that harsh. :)
 

George O'Brien

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jibikao said:
Wow wow wow, hold on there. Did you read what I wrote? I said from the games I've watched, I think he is horrible. I said I didn't watch last night's game so I have no comment on him. He IS horrible. Ok, so he had an okay game last night and I said he needs to have an "okay" game from now on because Kurt is injured and he is really our only "big guy".

I am not the only one who thinks Burke is terrible. Some other people even think he should even leave NBA and I am not even that harsh. :)

So what that there are some other people who agree with you? Repeating an opionion doesn't make it right.

How "horrible is horrible"? To me, horrible is a Paul Shirley who can't make a bad minor league team. Do you think Walter was "OK", or was he horrible too? Are you like Eric with rose colored glasses about Voskuhl, or will you admit he's pretty horrible as well. Give me some context.

I doubt that Burke will return next season, considering the style of play D'Antoni has. However, I think there is a good chance he will catch on with another team next year.
 

elindholm

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Are you like Eric with rose colored glasses about Voskuhl

Oh please. What, are you now adopting Errntknght's cute trick of saying inflammatory things about me just to get my attention?

Voskuhl wasn't very good, but he's better than Burke.
 

jibikao

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George O'Brien said:
So what that there are some other people who agree with you? Repeating an opionion doesn't make it right.

How "horrible is horrible"? To me, horrible is a Paul Shirley who can't make a bad minor league team. Do you think Walter was "OK", or was he horrible too? Are you like Eric with rose colored glasses about Voskuhl, or will you admit he's pretty horrible as well. Give me some context.

I doubt that Burke will return next season, considering the style of play D'Antoni has. However, I think there is a good chance he will catch on with another team next year.
For one thing, don't bring out things I did not say. I never say once that Paul Shirley is "okay" or Walter is "good". In fact, I have not even seen Paul ONCE in the game and I am sure the only time he can play is when we had huge lead. And I have no opinion on Voskuhl either and I don't think I talked about him at all.

But I did see Burke quite a few times on tv this season and he is not very good. Maybe my expectation is higher or maybe I am just full of ****, but like I've said, I am not the only one who thinks he is horrible and you KNOW that.

Well, remember the first game of the year when we lost to NY in 3 OT? I went to www.basketballboards.net forum and quite a few people said that Burke should just "exit NBA". That's the exact words they used. I even tried to protect him by saying the refs are crappy giving him so many bad calls (I think he fouled out in 13mins) but they said Burke was horrible because he was slow and he couldn't protect the boards when we needed him to.
 

myrondizzo

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so you have gone from no one would praise burke except george to, other people trash on him too. all while admitting you did watch the game last night which is what this thread is about.
 

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Why is Burke getting this much attention? He's a guy who provides 6 fouls. That's it. Any offensive stats are just a bonus.
 

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George O'Brien said:
Are you like Eric with rose colored glasses about Voskuhl, or will you admit he's pretty horrible as well. Give me some context.

I think you are the one with the rose-colored glasses, George. In my opinion, you give Burke more credit than he actually deserves, at least most of the time. I'd say it has at least something to do with the fact that Burke is Irish. I can relate to that - sometimes I do the same when it comes to Barbosa.

But just because you never liked Voskuhl, it doesn't mean Eric's opinion is biased. I agree with him about Voskuhl being better than Burke, and I'm sure there are other people that share the same view.
 

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PetryJr said:
I think you are the one with the rose-colored glasses, George. In my opinion, you give Burke more credit than he actually deserves, at least most of the time. I'd say it has at least something to do with the fact that Burke is Irish. I can relate to that - sometimes I do the same when it comes to Barbosa.

But just because you never liked Voskuhl, it doesn't mean Eric's opinion is biased. I agree with him about Voskuhl being better than Burke, and I'm sure there are other people that share the same view.

You guys are acting like George thinks he's the second coming of Olajuwon. I think his point is that he does exactly what he was signed to do. Nothing more.
 

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Chaplin said:
You guys are acting like George thinks he's the second coming of Olajuwon. I think his point is that he does exactly what he was signed to do. Nothing more.

And, believe it or not, I agree with his point. I just don't think it's fair to call someone else's opinion biased just because it's different from yours.
 

jibikao

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myrondizzo said:
so you have gone from no one would praise burke except george to, other people trash on him too. all while admitting you did watch the game last night which is what this thread is about.

Yes, no one really praises Burke the way George seems to. If you look at previous game threads, George always found some ways to praise Burke. Most of the time, people don't even mention Burke because he is really not that important. Who is the first one that praises Burke in this game thread? He played 10mins because Kurt is injured and not really because he did so well (or Diaw was in foul trouble).

I just want to point out that I am not the only one who thinks Burke is horrible. That's all. And George asked for "proof" and I just digged out some threads I saw/post. Nothing more.

And I also pointed out that George loves to praise Burke and I said it not in an offensive way because if he is Irish (which I didn't know), then I can see the point, just like I am Canadian and I follow Nash. Natural.
 

jibikao

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Chaplin said:
You guys are acting like George thinks he's the second coming of Olajuwon. I think his point is that he does exactly what he was signed to do. Nothing more.

Exactly. For a bench who played 10mins... he attempted 4 shots, scored 4pt and grabbed 3 rebounds, and committed 2 fouls and 2 turnovers... I call this "average". He is our tallest guy right now and him getting some rebounds/blocks is only natural. He did an "okay" job or as George put it "passable" last night and I said I have no comment on him.
 

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jibikao said:
Exactly. For a bench who played 10mins... he attempted 4 shots, scored 4pt and grabbed 3 rebounds, and committed 2 fouls and 2 turnovers... I call this "average". He is our tallest guy right now and him getting some rebounds/blocks is only natural. He did an "okay" job or as George put it "passable" last night and I said I have no comment on him.

You are obssessed with last night, when the actual conversation centers on your opinion of him BEFORE last night. And again, he does what he's supposed to do, nothing more. And if that makes him terrible to you, so be it, but he got the contract somehow, didn't he?
 

jibikao

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Chaplin said:
You are obssessed with last night, when the actual conversation centers on your opinion of him BEFORE last night. And again, he does what he's supposed to do, nothing more. And if that makes him terrible to you, so be it, but he got the contract somehow, didn't he?

Yes, my opinion on Burke is that he is terrible. He can have one okay game every once a while and there is a reason why he is cheap.
 

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jibikao said:
Yes, my opinion on Burke is that he is terrible. He can have one okay game every once a while and there is a reason why he is cheap.

I guess my question would be then, what you expected from him.
 

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jibikao said:
Well, since you want to see how people trash Burke, I digged out an old thread that people post after that 3OT game loss to Knicks:

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=229923&page=1&pp=15&highlight=nash+foul

Just search for Burke and you'll find some comments about him. Not from me.
Even though that's the link to the NY triple OT game thread, you must've gotten the thread wrong. I actually did go there and look for anti-Burke comments, and there is exactly one:

pure scrubness. trade for someone who can play center please!
Unless all the rest got deleted or something, that can hardly be considered horrible Burke trashing.

Anyway, the worst that could be said of George is that he is more optimistic about Pat Burke than most of the rest of us. To accuse him of some sort of bias is unreasonable. I listened to some of the game last night, and Burke really was playing decently for being the 12th man (then again, with all the injuries, that actually makes him the 9th man). I tend to agree with George in that if all you're going off is the box score, it doesn't make any sense for you to be dismissing Burke that way. While he was in, there wasn't a horrendous drop in play, which is what I worry about if a third-string player is called into the game in non-garbage time. Him having to guard Yao could have been bad news, but it really wasn't.

People will take you more seriously if you watch more than a few nationally televised games - and I'm speaking in general here. I don't live in Arizona anymore and can't watch the local feeds, but there's always internet radio. It's not the same as TV, but you get a much better feel for the flow of the game.

Back to the actual basketball player, I think most of us can say that Pat Burke is doing good enough for being a minimal contract, end-of-the-bench guy. With all the crippling injuries (esp. to our big men), just having Burke not sucking is good enough for me. It might be nice to have Diaw play center for 48 minutes, but that's just not reasonable.

Comparing him to Voskuhl - well, Voskuhl used to be our starting center, wasn't he? I think we'll all agree that if Pat Burke starts center for us, that means that we only had five players active for that game.
 

myrondizzo

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i think its funny that he is even playing at the start of training camp he was 4th on the depth chart and with the injuries to the 3 players ahead of him he is looking like he might be getting min. a 4th string guy playing against 1st and 2nd stringers is going to have his work cut out for him. if he can hold his own and not get made to look like too much of an idiot he is doing his job.
 

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myrondizzo said:
i think its funny that he is even playing at the start of training camp he was 4th on the depth chart and with the injuries to the 3 players ahead of him he is looking like he might be getting min. a 4th string guy playing against 1st and 2nd stringers is going to have his work cut out for him. if he can hold his own and not get made to look like too much of an idiot he is doing his job.

Exactly my view. For a third/fourth-string guy, I'm just hoping that Burke will be able to help keep the Suns afloat while the rest of the guys heal.

You know, I still can't believe Tskitishvilli got himself crippled at a time like this. It would have been the PERFECT opportunity for him to get some minutes. Remember when Gugliotta got injured and gave Stoudemire the chance to start? Well, he never looked back from that. Obviously Tskitishvilli wouldn't have been able to improve that dramatically, but he might have been able to at least earn himself a rotation spot.
 

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kaesile said:
Even though that's the link to the NY triple OT game thread, you must've gotten the thread wrong. I actually did go there and look for anti-Burke comments, and there is exactly one:


Unless all the rest got deleted or something, that can hardly be considered horrible Burke trashing.

Anyway, the worst that could be said of George is that he is more optimistic about Pat Burke than most of the rest of us. To accuse him of some sort of bias is unreasonable. I listened to some of the game last night, and Burke really was playing decently for being the 12th man (then again, with all the injuries, that actually makes him the 9th man). I tend to agree with George in that if all you're going off is the box score, it doesn't make any sense for you to be dismissing Burke that way. While he was in, there wasn't a horrendous drop in play, which is what I worry about if a third-string player is called into the game in non-garbage time. Him having to guard Yao could have been bad news, but it really wasn't.

People will take you more seriously if you watch more than a few nationally televised games - and I'm speaking in general here. I don't live in Arizona anymore and can't watch the local feeds, but there's always internet radio. It's not the same as TV, but you get a much better feel for the flow of the game.

Back to the actual basketball player, I think most of us can say that Pat Burke is doing good enough for being a minimal contract, end-of-the-bench guy. With all the crippling injuries (esp. to our big men), just having Burke not sucking is good enough for me. It might be nice to have Diaw play center for 48 minutes, but that's just not reasonable.

Comparing him to Voskuhl - well, Voskuhl used to be our starting center, wasn't he? I think we'll all agree that if Pat Burke starts center for us, that means that we only had five players active for that game.

You've pretty much summarized my position. Yes, I tend to focus on good things and development from backups, but I was the same way when JJ was being trashed, Barbosa was being trashed, and people wanted to unload Marion for cap space.

With inexperienced players, I look at what they can contribute and if they are making any progress. Sometimes that gets rewarded and sometimes not. But I rarely turn on a guy unless I see him regressing as with JJax.
 
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