Suns @ Spurs - Game Thread - Sat. May 12, 2007 - 5:00 pm

[arwillan]

putting Duncan on the bench with 7 minutes left in 3rd wouldn't have been that big? Your fooling yourself if you think that.

ill just assume you mean you're and not your. but thats irrelevant


duncan on the bench, well sure thats big, but amare was also on the bench so we have nothing to take advantage of it with. nash started 0-9 from the field so uhh we cant take advantage there. then to top it off, bowen, finley, and ginobili all found their stroke while the suns wouldnt even go back to bell for 3 in the 2nd half and marion was the only real source of anything on offense consistently (even though the others had their streaks). so after all that, the suns always look to barbs for some motivation and he shot like **** as well. the suns were outplayed no matter who gets into foul trouble.

 

[az1965]

Cheeseball - I already said I'm a Suns fan. I would love to see them win it all! My entire family sit and watch each game and scream & yell on every possession. I guess in your book, being a fan means you can't see reality, huh?

That I call idiocity, not reality...

 

[82CardsGrad]

The Spurs play better half court than the suns because Duncan can stay in the game and play without any fouls being called on him. The Suns have one of the best half court players in the NBA in Amare, but in this game he cold not play because the refs decided to call fouls on him.

Amare should have had some fouls called on him no doubt, but Duncan should have fouled out by the end of the 3rd quarter.

P.S. the Suns also have a pg by the name of Nash that can also play half court, or have you not noticed.

Take your dribble where somebody cares!!

So in game 1, when Amare played the ENTIRE game and we still lost, that was because..... what? The refs? The lights? The gorilla didn't show up???

 

[Chaplin]

Cheeseball - I already said I'm a Suns fan. I would love to see them win it all! My entire family sit and watch each game and scream & yell on every possession. I guess in your book, being a fan means you can't see reality, huh?

You've been on this board for a really long time, and NOW you decide to come on to the Suns forum, and all you do is insult fans of the same team you claim to love? Where's the logic in that?

 

[Scot1]

Before I say anything, understand that I'm a Suns fan... However, it still cracks me up to see other Suns fans whine and cry about the refs after each loss... The reality is, as it has been for the last 4 years - is that the Suns are simply not built for post-season success. They can't sustain a high level of team defense in a game or in a clutch series, and they can't execute in the half-court during the post season...
Oh sure, at points in a game they'll run a half court play and trick us into thinking they can actually do it whenever they want. And at times, Marion or Bell will make a defensive play and suddenly, we believe that when it matters, the Suns are actually capable of getting "the" stop...
But no...
We don't have any answer whatsoever for Duncan. He OWNS the Suns...
Our only hope is that we Nash & Amare can score and run the offense well enough to off-set Duncan's dominance on the other end...
I honestly would be shocked if the Suns were to win Monday night...

With fans like this, who needs trolls?

Duncan is a great player, clearly--so is Parker, and maybe Ginobili. Nonetheless, I can't see how you can deny that the refs basically gave the game away. If the refs called Duncan's fouls on him, he would have been out of the game for 10 or 15 more minutes, which would probably be the difference--also, Duncan would have about five fewer FT points. And Amare would have played more--it would have been a clear victory if not a blowout.

This game was the Suns' in the second quarter, but Nash was phenomenally sloppy. Add that to Amare being out, and you have the result.

As for this team 'not being built for the playoffs', it's interesting how many series they have won. If the refs mostly protect one team, it doesn't matter if you play more physically. Are you really denying that Bowen's knee to Nash's groin was not a flagrant foul? Are you denying that Duncan charged Nash and got the blocking call? If not, you've officially joined the whiners.

 

[cly2tw]

The Spurs play better half court than the suns because Duncan can stay in the game and play without any fouls being called on him. The Suns have one of the best half court players in the NBA in Amare, but in this game he cold not play because the refs decided to call fouls on him.

Amare should have had some fouls called on him no doubt, but Duncan should have fouled out by the end of the 3rd quarter.

P.S. the Suns also have a pg by the name of Nash that can also play half court, or have you not noticed.

Take your dribble where somebody cares!!

The frustrating part is that Suns have the potential and the personell to play excellent halfcourt game. Yet, the coaching staff doesn't seem to have prepared the team well enough.

 

[goldseraph]

I think youre being kind of trollish 82CardsGrad.... you seem like you're piling on. I'm not some overemotional homer, but I thought the game was clearly influenced by the officiating. Amare was having his way the brief moments he was in there, and was our only threat at getting Duncan in foul trouble. They were very hard on him, and even the announcers said so several times. You also go on about us nearing losing to the HORRIBLE Lakers last year (even tho they have best player in the league), and gettong OWNED by the Mavs (losing to them in 7 games in a classic series without Amare or Raja or KT). I agree with cheesebeef - douchebag.

 

[gdiddy]

Like I said... you guys are too funny... "Was I watching"?? Uhh... yea... Just like I watched 2 years ago when the Suns were owned by the Spurs (oops, I mean the refs), and just like I watched last year when the Suns were almost upset by some crappy Laker team, and then owned by the Mavs(oops, I meant the refs again...).
The Suns are built for speed and scoring, period... Fun to watch. Produces a ton of W's in the regular season. But Championships are won with defense, and executing in the half court - CONSISTENTLY.

Here you go again.

Two years ago the Suns played with a smaller lineup as Joe Johnson was out with a nasty injury from the Dallas series after getting fouled hard by Jerry Stackhouse.

Last year, Suns were bullied around by the likes of Kobe, Kwame, and Odom.

What do you mean by "great defense?" Do you mean getting clean blocks and forcing the other team to make bad shots? Or is it getting physical, foul or no foul, and frustrating the other team and making a bad name for basketball?

What if Bowen's kick to Amare's leg forced Amare to sit out this game? Would you still be touting San Antonio's great defense? What if Nash had to go to the locker room after the knee to his groin by Bowen? Is that another example of "great defense?"

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Is that a surprise??

No but he was laughing when saying it, it was slighlty arrogant. I am sure leandro pissed himself when he saw it.

 

[Bufalay]

Cheeseball - I already said I'm a Suns fan. I would love to see them win it all! My entire family sit and watch each game and scream & yell on every possession. I guess in your book, being a fan means you can't see reality, huh?

yo homeboy are you serious?

 

[Bufalay]

and i've been saying it since last year...tim effing donaghy hate the suns.

I would love 10 minutes alone with that republican looking moron...i'd show him whats up

 

[ChinaMeng]

I cannot understand why the blame is being put solely on the refs. The refs were not the source of this loss, and bringing in a new crew for game 4 will not be the source of a guaranteed victory for the Suns.

The Suns were up 30-25 after the first quarter. Did they suddenly bring in a new crew of refs or something?

The Suns were very capable of winning this game, even if all three of the refs were Duncan's brothers.

Diaw's traveling, Diaw throwing the ball away, KT traveling, Barbosa throwing the ball away, missed layups, missed free throws, endless pumpfaking and indecision around the basket, Marion and Nash throwing up **** off the backboard.

This game, more evident than any I have watched between the Suns and Spurs, showcased the huge discrepancy in coaching ability between these two teams.

Popovich is a genius, in the way he manages the games with timeouts and how he remains cool (relative to D'Antoni) on the sidelines.

Meanwhile, the Suns coaches fret about the refs instead of focusing on the players. Can someone PLEASE coach Diaw properly so he doesn't get called for shuffling his feet after catching a pass 2-3 times per game?!

 

[arwillan]

As for this team 'not being built for the playoffs', it's interesting how many series they have won. If the refs mostly protect one team, it doesn't matter if you play more physically. Are you really denying that Bowen's knee to Nash's groin was not a flagrant foul? Are you denying that Duncan charged Nash and got the blocking call? If not, you've officially joined the whiners.

Look at the teams they have beaten. the lakers, the lakers, the clippers. pretty much all crap teams not worth mentioning. now look at the teams they have lost to : SA, most likely SA this year, dallas. hmmm, dallas made it to the finals the year they beat us, SA won the finals that year, and will probably at least make it there again this year.

so this lets us know that the suns can beat weak teams and look really good but when it comes to the better teams in the playoffs they get beaten rather easily because they can not win in REAL playoff basketball. back when they had charles barkeley they made it to the finals. note that they didnt run 'n' gun back then. coincidence? i think not.

 

[82CardsGrad]

With fans like this, who needs trolls?

Duncan is a great player, clearly--so is Parker, and maybe Ginobili. Nonetheless, I can't see how you can deny that the refs basically gave the game away. If the refs called Duncan's fouls on him, he would have been out of the game for 10 or 15 more minutes, which would probably be the difference--also, Duncan would have about five fewer FT points. And Amare would have played more--it would have been a clear victory if not a blowout.

This game was the Suns' in the second quarter, but Nash was phenomenally sloppy. Add that to Amare being out, and you have the result.

As for this team 'not being built for the playoffs', it's interesting how many series they have won. If the refs mostly protect one team, it doesn't matter if you play more physically. Are you really denying that Bowen's knee to Nash's groin was not a flagrant foul? Are you denying that Duncan charged Nash and got the blocking call? If not, you've officially joined the whiners.

Ok... I see some of you guys just can't get to an objective point here...
I might be wrong, but I doubt it... Every team in the NBA can whine and cry after each game. Pro Basketball, BY FAR, is consistently the worst officiated pro sport. Nearly 75% of the calls made by refs are ambiguous at best, and most often can go either way. Now, you can scream and cry all you want that certain players and certain teams get favorable treatment. But, seems to me that each time you do that, it's after a loss and still, the Suns aren't hanging any Championship banners...
Point is, crying about the refs is just plain stupid... How bout Nash showing up in the first half. Or Amare NOT commiting STUPID fouls as he did with #'s 4 & 5, or perhaps somehow finding an answer for Duncan, who anytime he wants to put the ball in the basket - guess what? He does...

 

[Chaplin]

I cannot understand why the blame is being put solely on the refs. The refs were not the source of this loss, and bringing in a new crew for game 4 will not be the source of a guaranteed victory for the Suns.

The Suns were up 30-25 after the first quarter. Did they suddenly bring in a new crew of refs or something?

The Suns were very capable of winning this game, even if all three of the refs were Duncan's brothers.

Diaw's traveling, Diaw throwing the ball away, KT traveling, Barbosa throwing the ball away, missed layups, missed free throws, endless pumpfaking and indecision around the basket, Marion and Nash throwing up **** off the backboard.

This game, more evident than any I have watched between the Suns and Spurs, showcased the huge discrepancy in coaching ability between these two teams.

Popovich is a genius, in the way he manages the games with timeouts and how he remains cool (relative to D'Antoni) on the sidelines.

Meanwhile, the Suns coaches fret about the refs instead of focusing on the players. Can someone PLEASE coach Diaw properly so he doesn't get called for shuffling his feet after catching a pass 2-3 times per game?!

WTF?

The blame is NOT being put solely on the refs. But a big part of the loss has to be on the officiating. The old cliche of having to overcome officiating is applicable, but when it is this bad, it is impossible for any team, whether they be the Spurs or the Suns, to overcome.

 

[msdundee]

I screamed at least 3 times at Shawn Marion, let me remember..

- Play where he should have tried to posterize but instead missed a 2 handed 3 footer
- Play where he tried to pass it back in the post when the man was double teamed.
And a couple other missed easy easy ones and missed rebounds.

No doubt. Did you cheer when he made the four blocks and racked up the 26 points?

 

[sunsfn]

The frustrating part is that Suns have the potential and the personell to play excellent halfcourt game. Yet, the coaching staff doesn't seem to have prepared the team well enough.

The suns coaching staff is excellent, and they have prepared the suns to play half court! We need Amare on the floor to play it the best way this team can, and when he is not there we are not a good half court team.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Look at the teams they have beaten. the lakers, the lakers, the clippers. pretty much all crap teams not worth mentioning. now look at the teams they have lost to : SA, most likely SA this year, dallas. hmmm, dallas made it to the finals the year they beat us, SA won the finals that year, and will probably at least make it there again this year.

so this lets us know that the suns can beat weak teams and look really good but when it comes to the better teams in the playoffs they get beaten rather easily because they can not win in REAL playoff basketball. back when they had charles barkeley they made it to the finals. note that they didnt run 'n' gun back then. coincidence? i think not.

Well if the Suns don't get past the Spurs this year, clearly there will be changes.

But I doubt it would be KG or any savior for that matter, let's hope it's not another Luc Longley or Rodney Rodgers. But then again maybe 82 would love that.

 

[Heavy D]

82CardsGrad,

You said yourself that the refs had a bad night. We were actually pretty close at the end. How hard is it to make the connection that the Suns having to sit Amare because of foul trouble while the Spurs could keep Duncan on the floor is an advantage to SA? Also, Nash played like crap. Bowen hacked the hell out of him all night, with calls coming only when the game was essentially over. Do you think it's possible that those two facts are related? Please respond.

 

[cly2tw]

The suns coaching staff is excellent, and they have prepared the suns to play half court! We need Amare on the floor to play it the best way this team can, and when he is not there we are not a good half court team.

Diaw was drawing double teams. Suns couldn't take sufficient advantage. That's my blame on the Suns coaching.

 

[Greg Popovich]

Suns fans should not blame the refs for this loss, nor should they hang their heads, either.

I think the refs basically let the teams play. AT times, they did not make calls they should have made. AT other times, they made some calls that were questionable in the context of the entire game (i.e., calling ticky tack calls when overall letting lots of contact go without a call).

But I think another fan said it best--the refs did not miss the free throws, nor did they blow assignments, nor stop passing the ball to Raja Bell, who was hot as hell in the first half.

The refs did not make STAT look like an amateur when trying to make those picturesque dunks.

The refs did not make Nash go for such long periods of time without making a bucket.

If you count all of those plays and then count any of the questionable plays from your perspective, I think you'll see this was just a bad game by the Suns--period.

They had a bad game, everyone.

I expect them to come back on Monday in game four the way they came back in game 2.

But don't go Dallas Maverick on everybody, ie., complaining the ONLY reason your team lost was because of the refs.

That is a loser's song.

 

[sunsfn]

Suns fans should not blame the refs for this loss, nor should they hang their heads, either.

I think the refs basically let the teams play. AT times, they did not make calls they should have made. AT other times, they made some calls that were questionable in the context of the entire game (i.e., calling ticky tack calls when overall letting lots of contact go without a call).

But I think another fan said it best--the refs did not miss the free throws, nor did they blow assignments, nor stop passing the ball to Raja Bell, who was hot as hell in the first half.

The refs did not make STAT look like an amateur when trying to make those picturesque dunks.

The refs did not make Nash go for such long periods of time without making a bucket.

If you count all of those plays and then count any of the questionable plays from your perspective, I think you'll see this was just a bad game by the Suns--period.

They had a bad game, everyone.

I expect them to come back on Monday in game four the way they came back in game 2.

But don't go Dallas Maverick on everybody, ie., complaining the ONLY reason your team lost was because of the refs.

That is a loser's song.

Please, JUST LEAVE!

 

[cly2tw]

Well if the Suns don't get past the Spurs this year, clearly there will be changes.

But I doubt it would be KG or any savior for that matter, let's hope it's not another Luc Longley or Rodney Rodgers. But then again maybe 82 would love that.

We only need to develop Amare's game and to purposely play more half court sets in regular season as practise for playoff. We can beat any team in half game too, it's just not as flashy as fastbreaking all the time.

 

[Chaplin]

Suns fans should not blame the refs for this loss, nor should they hang their heads, either.

I think the refs basically let the teams play. AT times, they did not make calls they should have made. AT other times, they made some calls that were questionable in the context of the entire game (i.e., calling ticky tack calls when overall letting lots of contact go without a call).

But I think another fan said it best--the refs did not miss the free throws, nor did they blow assignments, nor stop passing the ball to Raja Bell, who was hot as hell in the first half.

The refs did not make STAT look like an amateur when trying to make those picturesque dunks.

The refs did not make Nash go for such long periods of time without making a bucket.

If you count all of those plays and then count any of the questionable plays from your perspective, I think you'll see this was just a bad game by the Suns--period.

They had a bad game, everyone.

I expect them to come back on Monday in game four the way they came back in game 2.

But don't go Dallas Maverick on everybody, ie., complaining the ONLY reason your team lost was because of the refs.

That is a loser's song.

Look, you're usually a good, solid poster... But the reality is that we just lost a game against your team--this is probably not a good time to get on our message board and start lecturing us.

 

[82CardsGrad]

82CardsGrad,

You said yourself that the refs had a bad night. We were actually pretty close at the end. How hard is it to make the connection that the Suns having to sit Amare because of foul trouble while the Spurs could keep Duncan on the floor is an advantage to SA? Also, Nash played like crap. Bowen hacked the hell out of him all night, with calls coming only when the game was essentially over. Do you think it's possible that those two facts are related? Please respond.

Sure... they might be related... But, I can just as easily ask you - Do you think Bowen's "hacking" was the complete cause for Nash's all-time worst first half performance? Were ALL the calls on Amare bogus? I can count 4 of them that I felt were legit calls... Had Amare played more minutes, would Duncan not have owned the Suns (I'll refer you to Game 1 here...)?
So again - rather than whinning about the refs yet again - something every team in the NBA can do after each game - I believe there were plenty of other reasons why this game was lost. And again - ultimately, the Suns are simply not built to win a Championship... I know people like Cheeseball have an issue with that, but it's true... I love the Suns. Go to 10-15 games a year. I love the players on the team. However, until they can actually execute in the half court on a consistent basis, and until they can actually get "THE" stop(s) when needed most, we will continue to see what we've seen for the past 3 years now... 60 W's a year. Lots of post season excitement, but the Spurs & Mavs representing the West in the Championship series...