Suns @ Spurs - Game Thread - Sat. May 12, 2007 - 5:00 pm

[cly2tw]

Suns fans should not blame the refs for this loss, nor should they hang their heads, either.

I think the refs basically let the teams play. AT times, they did not make calls they should have made. AT other times, they made some calls that were questionable in the context of the entire game (i.e., calling ticky tack calls when overall letting lots of contact go without a call).

But I think another fan said it best--the refs did not miss the free throws, nor did they blow assignments, nor stop passing the ball to Raja Bell, who was hot as hell in the first half.

The refs did not make STAT look like an amateur when trying to make those picturesque dunks.

The refs did not make Nash go for such long periods of time without making a bucket.

If you count all of those plays and then count any of the questionable plays from your perspective, I think you'll see this was just a bad game by the Suns--period.

They had a bad game, everyone.

I expect them to come back on Monday in game four the way they came back in game 2.

But don't go Dallas Maverick on everybody, ie., complaining the ONLY reason your team lost was because of the refs.

That is a loser's song.

Despite all these, we were still in the game till the refs decided to not let us win! As you realize too, it's not only bad calls and no calls, it's also the suspect timing and inconsistency that denied us a chance to win no matter what! And I don't normally blame the refs for losses.

 

[Chaplin]

Sure... they might be related... But, I can just as easily ask you - Do you think Bowen's "hacking" was the complete cause for Nash's all-time worst first half performance? Were ALL the calls on Amare bogus? I can count 4 of them that I felt were legit calls... Had Amare played more minutes, would Duncan not have owned the Suns (I'll refer you to Game 1 here...)?
So again - rather than whinning about the refs yet again - something every team in the NBA can do after each game - I believe there were plenty of other reasons why this game was lost. And again - ultimately, the Suns are simply not build to win a Championship... I know people like Cheeseball have an issue with that, but it's true... I love the Suns. Go to 10-15 games a year. I love the players on the team. However, until they can actually execute in the half court on a consistent basis, and until they can actually get "THE" stop(s) when needed most, we will continue to see what we've seen for the past 3 years now... 60 W's a year. Lots of post season excitement, but the Spurs & Mavs representing the West in the Championship series...

Are you TRYING to generalize, or is this just your way of trying to start arguments?

 

[Assface]

The refs did not make Nash go for such long periods of time without making a bucket.

Bowen's constant hacking of Nash's arms sure had something to do with it.

Fouls:

Thomas 5
Stoudemire 5
Bell 5
Diaw 4

I can't believe that assclown Bowen finished with only 2 fouls. The kick to Steve's groin, the hacking of every sun who came his way with the ball....the guy is one dirty play after another. How about that foul on Diaw where Duncan stuck his hip in to him as he ran by? The officiating sucked.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheeseball - I already said I'm a Suns fan. I would love to see them win it all! My entire family sit and watch each game and scream & yell on every possession. I guess in your book, being a fan means you can't see reality, huh?

reality? you're talking to the resident basher of all people who complain about the refs. We definitely played a crap game in the 2nd half, but it doesn't take away from the fact IMO that I watched the worst officiated game of the season and that played a part in the loss. You can still be a suns fan and a douchebag - the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Are you TRYING to generalize, or is this just your way of trying to start arguments?

Specifically saying that the Suns can't execute in the half court, and get get "the" stops when they need it is not specific enough for you?? Too funny...

 

[82CardsGrad]

reality? you're talking to the resident basher of all people who complain about the refs. We definitely played a crap game in the 2nd half, but it doesn't take away from the fact IMO that I watched the worst officiated game of the season and that played a part in the loss. You can still be a suns fan and a douchebag - the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes - you've provided a vivid illustration of such... Thanks!

 

[Cheesebeef]

So in game 1, when Amare played the ENTIRE game and we still lost, that was because..... what? The refs? The lights? The gorilla didn't show up???

because they played better than us? Just because people are ragging on the refs tonight isn't a blanket statement about the entire series. Only a complete and utter douchebag would make that leap of stupidity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes - you've provided a vivid illustration of such... Thanks!

okay douchebag.

 

[TheHopToad]

I agree that the officiating was HORRIBLE and that it significantly influenced the outcome of the game. However, the Suns also played sluggishly and inconsistently.

I am happy that they don't have any more three day layoffs between games. It seems that our worst games come after multiple day breaks. Turning right around and having the next game on Monday night has to favor the Suns, as they are a better conditioned team (and younger) than the Spurs. Then it's every other day after that.

I agree that it looks promising for a Suns win in game 4. This is the league's showcase series and they want it to go the distance. They'll make sure that the right set of referees are assigned. ABC wants game 7 of this series next weekend, not a game 1 with either Utah or GSW...

 

[az1965]

Sure... they might be related... But, I can just as easily ask you - Do you think Bowen's "hacking" was the complete cause for Nash's all-time worst first half performance? Were ALL the calls on Amare bogus? I can count 4 of them that I felt were legit calls... Had Amare played more minutes, would Duncan not have owned the Suns (I'll refer you to Game 1 here...)?
So again - rather than whinning about the refs yet again - something every team in the NBA can do after each game - I believe there were plenty of other reasons why this game was lost. And again - ultimately, the Suns are simply not built to win a Championship... I know people like Cheeseball have an issue with that, but it's true... I love the Suns. Go to 10-15 games a year. I love the players on the team. However, until they can actually execute in the half court on a consistent basis, and until they can actually get "THE" stop(s) when needed most, we will continue to see what we've seen for the past 3 years now... 60 W's a year. Lots of post season excitement, but the Spurs & Mavs representing the West in the Championship series...

So what was game 2? Who OWNED Spurs in that game? The first game we just lost, that was more on D'Antoni for not playing KT enough. Was this board screaming refs at that time?

 

[az1965]

I agree that the officiating was HORRIBLE and that it significantly influenced the outcome of the game. However, the Suns also played sluggishly and inconsistently.

I am happy that they don't have any more three day layoffs between games. It seems that our worst games come after multiple day breaks. Turning right around and having the next game on Monday night has to favor the Suns, as they are a better conditioned team (and younger) than the Spurs. Then it's every other day after that.

I agree that it looks promising for a Suns win in game 4. This is the league's showcase series and they want it to go the distance. They'll make sure that the right set of referees are assigned. ABC wants game 7 of this series next weekend, not a game 1 with either Utah or GSW...

Good point! Suns played crap in addition for the horrible officiating. Let's hope we come out playing normal basket ball.

 

[elindholm]

This game reminded me of the Kevin Johnson Suns before Barkley came. Basically the plan was to go soft to the basket and hope that touch fouls would be called. Well, they won't be, unless the officials think you're trying to score, not just draw a foul. That's the difference. Most of the time, the Suns were going to the basket without a real plan for how to get the ball through the hoop, and that's why the fouls weren't called.

I guess I've learned my lesson about predicting Suns victories.

Generally, I thought the Suns didn't play smart on either end of the floor. There's really no excuse for allowing all three of Duncan/Parker/Ginobili to go off. On offense, they kept dribbling into traffic, rushing makeable shots, and throwing the ball away with mindless passes. Barbosa, in particular, is looking completely out of his league. I think it has to be considered encouraging that they were competitive most of the way while playing so badly.

I didn't think that Stoudemire's complaining about the Spurs' dirty play could have a downside, but it did: He was so hyper trying to prove himself this game that he was out of control, particularly on defense. Blame the officials all you want, but every foul he was called for was legitimate, and they are calls that will be made every time against someone who is wild and overplaying.

Bowen did a good job on Nash, but even so, Nash missed a bunch of layups he usually makes. Marion and Bell were the only Suns to step up offensively, and that's not going to get it done. When your best crunch-time option is Marion for three in the corner, you know your offense isn't functioning properly.

 

[az1965]

Barbosa is having an overall bad series. Too many turnovers and struggling offense.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Barbosa is having an overall bad series. Too many turnovers and struggling offense.

Damm refs!

 

[az1965]

Damm refs!

 

[82CardsGrad]

 

[Scot1]

I cannot understand why the blame is being put solely on the refs. The refs were not the source of this loss, and bringing in a new crew for game 4 will not be the source of a guaranteed victory for the Suns.

I think this poster and Popsi have a claim, just not an argument. The refs cost us Amare's presence for about 20 minutes, plus gave them 15 or so more minutes with Duncan in there, plus a slew of FTs. That swings the game, pure and simple. Now it's true that if Nash hit a few of those silly uncharacteristic misses and avoided a few sloppy turnovers, we would have won as well. Fine--that just means that fair reffing would have led to us winning, but the bad calls did not mean we would automatically lose. Small consolation, and not much of a defense of the refs.

 

[F-Dog]

Now it's true that if Nash hit a few of those silly uncharacteristic misses and avoided a few sloppy turnovers, we would have won as well.

I don't think they were sloppy turnovers--Nash was getting grabbed left and right.

That was supposed to be one of the big differences with this team, the introduction of the hand-check rule, but I guess they decided to stop calling them this year.

 

[jbeecham]

Nash had a bad game. Amare couldn't stay in the game (his 3rd & 4th fouls were very questionable calls). Lots of bad calls & no calls and we're still close with a chance to win. Also LB played really poorly.

This is exactly what we expected in SA. As bad as the officiating was, I don't feel to bad losing this game because we can play a lot better.

Also, Bowen kneeing Nash in the groin & Horry pulling Amare to the floor showed the dirtiness of the Spurs. Looked like Parker elbowed LB in the nuts to get his shot off at the end of the 3rd qtr as well. Bowen grabbing and slapping Nash on every play was pretty bad too.

Great game by Marion, good games by Diaw & Bell (although disappeared in the 2nd half). We can play much better than we did.

I'll also say the refs were decent in the 1st half. 2nd half was a different story though.

 

[Spider TX]

Sure... they might be related... But, I can just as easily ask you - Do you think Bowen's "hacking" was the complete cause for Nash's all-time worst first half performance? Were ALL the calls on Amare bogus? I can count 4 of them that I felt were legit calls... Had Amare played more minutes, would Duncan not have owned the Suns (I'll refer you to Game 1 here...)?
So again - rather than whinning about the refs yet again - something every team in the NBA can do after each game - I believe there were plenty of other reasons why this game was lost. And again - ultimately, the Suns are simply not built to win a Championship... I know people like Cheeseball have an issue with that, but it's true... I love the Suns. Go to 10-15 games a year. I love the players on the team. However, until they can actually execute in the half court on a consistent basis, and until they can actually get "THE" stop(s) when needed most, we will continue to see what we've seen for the past 3 years now... 60 W's a year. Lots of post season excitement, but the Spurs & Mavs representing the West in the Championship series...

You sir, are a complete moron who should have your posting ights revoked. The Suns play a pretty bad game, with ABSOLUTELY HORIBLE officiating, and you thow in the towle already. You are no real fan as you claim to be, you are just some angry pissed off individual who tries to souns like you know what you are talking about.

Nash misses a crucial part of game 1 and they lose. They destroy the Spurs in game 2, and with EVERYTHING going the Spurs way in game 3, the Suns are still right in it with a couple minutes to go.

You have proven with numerous posts you really are clueless regarding this team and the NBA. The Spurs may win this series, I still very much doubt it because the Suns will most likely come out dominant in game 4, and only will have to win their 2 home games to go on, but to say some of the nonsense crap you rambled in your post just makes you look more and more foolish. So do all and favor and shut off your computer.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And again - ultimately, the Suns are simply not built to win a Championship... I know people like Cheeseball have an issue with that, but it's true...

dude, you continue to make yourtself look like a complete and utter douchebag who has no clue what they're talking about. Cheeseball - or me - is the resident PESSIMIST here who called the series Spurs in 6 you freaking douchebag.

you gotta love a douchebag who has no relation to this board, then gets here for one night and thinks he knows the entire world.

man, what a douchebag.

 

[Greg Popovich]

Despite all these, we were still in the game till the refs decided to not let us win! As you realize too, it's not only bad calls and no calls, it's also the suspect timing and inconsistency that denied us a chance to win no matter what! And I don't normally blame the refs for losses.

Absolutely--in spite of all of the above, the Suns were in the game all the way to the end.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I actually put a LOT of this blame on DA. In the first half, when Amare was getting it going, it seemed like the entire offense made a conscious decision NOT to get him the ball - it was unbelievable. He was hitting jumpers, getting and one's, FTs and then, all of a sudden it was as if DA wanted to prove we could win like we did last year and the offense became the Shawn and Boris show - which was BEYOND stupid, especially when it became clear that Diaw's 8 minutes of good play for the series was up. Amare, whenever he's out there and we're struggling for points should ALWAYS be the go to guy - they can't stop him.

I also put a lot of blame on Barbs who was just ATROCIOUS tonight - and he really has been most of the series since he started 6-6 in Game 1 - bad decision making, passing up shots, etc, etc. And it weas his unit on the floor at the end of the third that officially ended the game, when we were struggling, but only down 72-71 with 1:30 left and ended up down 80-72 at the end of the quarter. The game was over at that point.

bottom line - I DO thinkw ehave the talent to beat this team, I just question if we have the coaching. It's almost like this team WANTS to prove that they don't need Amare to be dominant to win - and that's just beyond words.

 

[SirStefan32]

First of all, officiating was HORRIBLE- there is no denying that.

However, in the NBA, and especially in playoff basketball, the team that's attacking is going to get the calls. that's just how it is. It's always been that way. San Antonio is attacking the basket, playing tough defense- they just look like they WANT to win this series more than the Suns do. Officiating is going to reflect that.

Instead of bitching and whining about officiating, Amare, Shawn and the rest of the guys need to take the basketball, take it to the hoop and THROW IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sick of this "let's drive to the hoop, throw the ball up in the air and hope that refs are going to call a foul.

They have to forget about refs. Just take the damn ball to the hoop and throw it down. Hitting some open shots won't hurt either.

 

[jbeecham]

I actually put a LOT of this blame on DA. In the first half, when Amare was getting it going, it seemed like the entire offense made a conscious decision NOT to get him the ball - it was unbelievable. He was hitting jumpers, getting and one's, FTs and then, all of a sudden it was as if DA wanted to prove we could win like we did last year and the offense became the Shawn and Boris show - which was BEYOND stupid, especially when it became clear that Diaw's 8 minutes of good play for the series was up. Amare, whenever he's out there and we're struggling for points should ALWAYS be the go to guy - they can't stop him.

He was probably afraid Amare would pick up his 3rd foul early.

I also put a lot of blame on Barbs who was just ATROCIOUS tonight - and he really has been most of the series since he started 6-6 in Game 1 - bad decision making, passing up shots, etc, etc. And it weas his unit on the floor at the end of the third that officially ended the game, when we were struggling, but only down 72-71 with 1:30 left and ended up down 80-72 at the end of the quarter. The game was over at that point.

Complete agree that LB was horrible tonight......bad turnovers, bad shots, out of control. Nash had a poor game too.

bottom line - I DO thinkw ehave the talent to beat this team, I just question if we have the coaching. It's almost like this team WANTS to prove that they don't need Amare to be dominant to win - and that's just beyond words.

We definitely have the talent to beat them. We just need to have 5-6 of our top 7 guys playing well at once. Without a balanced attack, it's much easier for SA to defend us. Oh, and we need to stay out of foul trouble and be able to get SA in foul trouble.