Suns to trade JJ for Boris Diaw and 2 future #1's

[PakistaniRambo]

i dont like pierce much, he's a ball hog. i dont think he would work for us.

but if you are going to trade marion, now is the time. he's in the peak of his career. but i dont know how u can replace what he brings. 3rd best rebounder in the freaking league and he's 6'7 for god sake. he is probalby the worst 1 on 1 player in the history of the game, but he does everything else so well it doesnt really matter.

 

[simply_amare]

Sold on what Rambo says. Pierce tends to play 1-on-1 too much. He probably forgets he's got teammates playing on the court. I don't think would mesh with the suns team play.

 

[cly2tw]

i dont like pierce much, he's a ball hog. i dont think he would work for us.

but if you are going to trade marion, now is the time. he's in the peak of his career. but i dont know how u can replace what he brings. 3rd best rebounder in the freaking league and he's 6'7 for god sake. he is probalby the worst 1 on 1 player in the history of the game, but he does everything else so well it doesnt really matter.

Pierce is a competitor, a gym rat. He'd do anything to win it all. He hogged the ball since nobody else could make better decisions with it on the Celtics team. He'd defer to Amare and Nash and we'd need his go-to quality.

As to Marion's production, you don't replace it with another player, you win as a team following any such trade to prove you did the right thing. Yet, it all comes down to whether we need that true 2nd go-to player next to Amare. From the Spurs series, I say we really need. JJ, if not traded, might have the potential to become just that, but Pierce is that already, and has been that for a long time now!

 

[azsouthendzone]

Joe Johnson was in the top 10 in 3pt percentage and 3 pointers made. Other than that, statistically, he was very average. He didnt break the top 50 in steals, assists, or rebounds. I honestly think the self proclaimed "4th Wheel" is a little overrated. Sure he had a nice year, but so did Quintin Richardson, yet no one complained when he was dealt. Q actually had a better all around game. It will be fun to see Joe play like Joe pre-2005 when the Hawks are getting run outta the gym nightly. The last player to take a dump on this town this bad was Simeon Rice. Very classless. Good riddance.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Q actually had a better all around game.

I could see where you were going until here. That is extremely off base. JJ has a very complete game, and it is much more effecient than Q.

 

[PakistaniRambo]

i agree with crackr.

Q was a volume shooter, JJ is much more efficient with his shots, as his FG% proves.

I wasnt surprised to see Q go. I felt we signed him in order to trade him. We signed him thinking the Clippers would probably match, but there was no harm in trying. The team was stacked with shootings guards but he was the best available player on the market at that time. The more assets you have on a team, the better off you'll be, whether they play for you or you trade them for assets you actually need.

 

[PhxGametime]

Option D.. Get on the phone with Marko Jaric's agent and see if he'd be willing to sign for the MLE.

I've been reading like 17 pages in 1 hour and I was hoping somebody mentioned him for Mid-Level and then using Trade Exception on Raja Bell but I have yet to go to Hoopshype to see who would be available in a Trade...


Some may remember that Boris Diaw was the Prospect I had wanted over Cabarkapa but after saying that, I hadn't watched either before Draft... Diaw had really nice write-ups in NBADraft.net but I am worried that his parents were Basketball players and that they or something like that he prefers to be a set-up man more-so than a scorer because you're going to have-to be a threat in order to set-up people... if he can develop a 3PT shot, even if his scoring average is around what Bruce Bowen's is, although I'm not sure what the Suns will do with Draft Picks... it all depends on what the Suns do with Trade Exception. I like Trade... because I know believe JJ, really wanted out.


I really would prefer Diaw over Childress because with Childress the Suns probably only get 1 Pick and Diaw could easily fit a Point like role and if he can develop a 3PT shot... then I really like the Trade. But regardless where the Draft Picks end, the Suns have a shot to really improve using the Trade Exception than where they now stand (losing JJ and adding Diaw) because Diaw himself isn't what the Trade can be... adding Diaw and player via Trade Exception could land the Suns somewhere in the top tier teams if they hit jackpot on that TE... and with the 2 1st Round Picks the team can build roster that will be cheap until those Picks hit the end of their contract ends (don't know how long Rookies have now until extensions)...

 

[jed]

Hey, guys. I tend to haunt another board, but I was attracted to the conversation and in need of some serious venting.

Letting JJ go is honestly the dumbest move we could have made this offseason. Why?

1 -- We spent all offseason making moves in preparation of matching Joe. First, we moved Q. Yeah, I know we got KT, which isn't bad, but we probably wouldn't have been so willing to give up Q if we knew JJ was gone. Plus, Robinson or anyone else we could have picked with our first rounder would have madxe for some nice reinforcements. Second, we moved Jake, pretty much our only backup big on the roster of note. Third, we told everyone in the league that we would match -- and by not doing so, we paint a big target on our backs whenever we have a RFA now. Ex: "Phoenix says they'll match? Well, let's see if they're still interested after we offer their guy this..."

2 -- I know the pervading argument supporting this move out there is that we'd supposedly be overpaying JJ. I don't know that I agree, but let's just say that's the case for the sake of argument. Then you let him play out the year, you take your shot at contending, and you have your choice of who to move at the end of the season -- JJ, Marion or KT. By not doing so, we lose the chance to contend and the flexibility to find a better deal for JJ -- or whoever we want to move -- out there.

3 -- Amare. If I'm him, I'm wondering right now what it would be like to play in the Staples Center. Or Madison Square Garden. Or any other big market that would be willing to move heaven and earth to get me in their stable. We needed to match JJ -- if for no other reason -- to show Amare that we are serious about giving him a chance to shine in the finals. If we don't have that, what exactly do we have to keep him from taking the qualifying offer and going somplace else with something better to sell?

4 -- JJ had resigned himself to being here! He copped to the fact that Phx was probably the better situation for him. He said that he'd come and bust his butt for us. Basically we were past the biggest hurdle -- JJ's preferences -- and we were primed to keep the core together for a run. Now that's the time to start buckling, why?

I'm obviously hoping that the Hoopsworld report is true and the deal is in our court right now -- rather than done, as reported by ESPN. Though I'm assuming Stein has done his homework and we're SOL. I'm pretty bothered by this news -- bothered like I was when Dice left. Only then, I could blame Dice for his immaturity and his short-sightedness. In this case, I'm forced to call into question the ones with the keys to the franchise.

I don't like this news. But I'm even more afraid about where this is leading.

 

[PhxGametime]

Well I think everybody was on board, that the team should match JJ but maybe he really didn't want to be here...

 

[jed]

So? That's why the league agreed to Restricted Free Agency. So that teams could hold onto their assets regardless of the greener grass.


JJ not wanting to be here is no excuse for not matching. It's smarter to retain him and move him later when we can command a better deal.

 

[playstation]

wait, so this is what's on hoopsworld.com right now:

SIGN AND TRADE: A source close to the Hawks confirms the ESPN report, that the Suns have an offer of Boris Diaw and two lottery protected first round draft picks as part of a “sign and trade” offer featuring Joe Johnson heading to Atlanta --- its up to Phoenix to say yes or no --- but Atlanta will also send a $5 million trade exception they are holding on to... this gives Phoenix a lot of flexibility to go after a replacement player in a 2nd sign and trade. Sources in Phoenix could neither confirm nor deny the rumor. The deal if it goes through gives Johnson an extra year on the deal and about $2 million more in upfront money making the 1st year payment much closer to $20 million, than the original reported $18 million.

this article was written on July 31st, at 8:30pm (don't know the timezone). i know coro reported as though its a done deal, but you never know i guess.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Keep in mind hoopsworld is a site run by people like me and you. Coro is the beat writer for the Suns


I love how they claim that the Hawks traded us a trade exeption. Do they know anything about the CBA?

 

[JPlay]

JJ is not worth that type of bank. The Suns already have a solid core of Amare, Marion and Nash....you don't play a complimentary player that much. He's never been an all-star and only had this great 3 point shooting year once Nash came aboard. Let's see how he does w/out Nash giving him those open looks for 3. He sure as hell wasn't looking as great as a PG when Nash was out and we were losing all of those games.

The fact is that the Suns couldn't afford him. We were out-bid. The Suns are smart for not killing themselves financially in the future and getting stuck in a situation where we are in the luxury tax and can't make any moves if the team starts losing.

This is starting to look similar to the dismantling of the 92-93 team though.

Q for KT just like Majerle for Hot Rod
Losing JJ, just like losing Dumas (drugs)
Amare (superstar)= Barkley
Nash (great PG)= KJ
Marion (great garbage player, no plays run for him)= Ceballos

The only big difference is that Amare is still very young and getting better. And Marion is much better all around then Ceballos...not to mention Nash's passing and 3 point shooting ability.

 

[coloradosun]

JJ is not worth that type of bank. The Suns already have a solid core of Amare, Marion and Nash....you don't play a complimentary player that much. He's never been an all-star and only had this great 3 point shooting year once Nash came aboard. Let's see how he does w/out Nash giving him those open looks for 3. He sure as hell wasn't looking as great as a PG when Nash was out and we were losing all of those games.

I disagree, shooting is a lost art. The NBA has become a bunch of athletic chuckers. You don't have very many players of JJ's ability to handle the ball and shoot, Nash is one of the rare breed as well. Marbury and Iverson are very good athletic point guards but not that great of shooters. JJ is a 2 guard with point guard skills, Marbury and Iverson are 2 guards with point guard size.

Marion is not worth his type of bank, just an athlete with SF size, and I can actually call his shot "chucking".

 

[jed]

"I disagree, shooting is a lost art."

Very interesting point.

Q's gone. Now JJ as well. Anyone thought of the fact that we're just not as capable of spreading the floor as a team anymore?

Defenses can now collapse a lot more effectively on Amare, because we just don't have the outside threats we used to.

 

[cly2tw]

I disagree, shooting is a lost art. The NBA has become a bunch of athletic chuckers. You don't have very many players of JJ's ability to handle the ball and shoot, Nash is one of the rare breed as well. Marbury and Iverson are very good athletic point guards but not that great of shooters. JJ is a 2 guard with point guard skills, Marbury and Iverson are 2 guards with point guard size.

Marion is not worth his type of bank, just an athlete with SF size, and I can actually call his shot "chucking".

Marbury maybe streaky but Iverson is actually a great shooter in that he'd nail open 18-footers better than Joe. The low shooting percentage is purely due to his huge number of heavily contested shots, at which Joe is absolutely inadequate. That's the reason Allen and Redd and even Stojakovic are considered better shooters.

 

[Superbone]

"I disagree, shooting is a lost art."

Very interesting point.

Q's gone. Now JJ as well. Anyone thought of the fact that we're just not as capable of spreading the floor as a team anymore?

Defenses can now collapse a lot more effectively on Amare, because we just don't have the outside threats we used to.

Well, let's not forget that we've picked up a couple of new guys with pretty respectable 3 percentages: Bell & Padgett. Let's give them a chance...

 

[coloradosun]

Marbury maybe streaky but Iverson is actually a great shooter in that he'd nail open 18-footers better than Joe. The low shooting percentage is purely due to his huge number of heavily contested shots, at which Joe is absolutely inadequate. That's the reason Allen and Redd and even Stojakovic are considered better shooters.

Iverson is a scorer, most of shots are off balance, acrobatic moves. Johnson is a pure shooter, great stroke. There is a big difference. Great shooters can move out to the arch and make the shot look easy. Both Iverson and Marbury are not pure shooters, it is difficult for them to make their shots outside the arch, their strokes look very mechanical at that distance.

 

[cly2tw]

Iverson is a scorer, most of shots are off balance, acrobatic moves. Johnson is a pure shooter, great stroke. There is a big difference. Great shooters can move out to the arch and make the shot look easy. Both Iverson and Marbury are not pure shooters, it is difficult for them to make their shots outside the arch, their strokes look very mechanical at that distance.

Eh, let agree on that Joe won't shoot 48% 3s now he is gonna be THE man in Atlanta, or he will have to abandon shooting 3s almost completely in order to keep that high percentage.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"I disagree, shooting is a lost art."

Very interesting point.

Q's gone. Now JJ as well. Anyone thought of the fact that we're just not as capable of spreading the floor as a team anymore?

Defenses can now collapse a lot more effectively on Amare, because we just don't have the outside threats we used to.

this is my greatest fear. yes, jjax and bell can hit the three, but will they be as prolific as jj and q? prolly not. amare's and nash's jobs will undoubtedly be much more difficult next year.

 

[coloradosun]

this is my greatest fear. yes, jjax and bell can hit the three, but will they be as prolific as jj and q? prolly not. amare's and nash's jobs will undoubtedly be much more difficult next year.

I said in another thread but Wesley Person is an UFA, we better make a push to sign him. He shot 48% from the 3 in limited minutes last year.

 

[sunsfn]

Wesley person is horrible, he lost it many years ago. The suns will not sign him. There are much better players out there than him and I can not even think of their names that is how bad they are..............!

 

[elindholm]

Wow! What a time for me to be out of town with almost no internet access! My cell phone doesn't even work here...

I was pretty squeamish about matching the offer. Johnson isn't worth that much as a Sun, and he certainly won't be worth that much as a Hawk. I will "go on record" as saying that, a couple of years from now, Johnson's contract will be seen league-wide as one of those horrible bloated mistakes, like Tim Thomas's or Austin Croshere's. He looked good as an opportunistic role player last year, but I simply refuse to believe that he can handle the pressure, or has the psychological makeup, to be a main guy.

I play poker, and sometimes in a poker game, one player will make a terrible error, causing a different player to lose money because he assumes the first player can't be that stupid. (A third player, neither so stupid nor so perceptive, winds up the winner.) I see this as that kind of situation. The Hawks are making a real blunder here, but it's costing the Suns as well. The only winner is Johnson, and that will be only in his bank account.

The Suns got virtually nothing in return except some flexibility. But that flexibility could be key. Although the Suns have not drafted well recently or been particularly adept during the summers, their in-season moves have been pretty good. They got Jackson by being in the right place at the right time and having the flexibility to make something happen. They're in good shape to pull something like that again.

The only other thing I can say now -- this computer sucks -- is that I hope we've all learned once and for all not to trust anything the Suns brass says about the direction of the team. Even if they believe what they are saying when they say it, it turns out to be false more often than not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only other thing I can say now -- this computer sucks -- is that I hope we've all learned once and for all not to trust anything the Suns brass says about the direction of the team. Even if they believe what they are saying when they say it, it turns out to be false more often than not.

sad but true. i can't say that i believed that with jerry at the helm.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

At least we have the "element of surprise" with teams...

I wonder how many people here would react if they were told that we were getting Boris Diaw and two first rounders for JJ... I know, with time to think about it, many of us have convinced ourselves it isn't that bad, but Boris freakin Diaw? You would figure that we would at least get Childress or something out of it...I mean who knows how the picks will pan out? We saw what happened with our delusions of grandeur about the Chicago pick that turned to crap.

I am still pretty apprehensive about how this offseason is going to pan out. I find it unbelievable that we lost two starters off of the most exciting team in the last decade. I thought that most of these moves in the short term were good, adding Bell and Thomas. After we lost Robinson I wasn't pleased, and the JJ situation had little chance of turning out good for anyone. I am really worried about our complete lack of frontcourt depth especially with KT's age and foul issues.

If we sign Finley and Hunter, I would feel that we upgraded this summer. It would be hard to stomach a down grade, especially after the excitement and momentum of last year. It was kind of funny, my dad and I were talking the other day about how during games last year, I made fun of him when he warned me to enjoy these games, because you never know how long it will last. Any way you cut it, there is little chance that any team we have will match the excitment and athleticism of last year's team.