Suns to trade JJ for Boris Diaw and 2 future #1's

Chaplin

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Biclops said:
I just read on the Hawks board that we ARE GETTING Atlanta's Mid-level exception

How does Atlanta even have access to that exception?? You're not even supposed to have it if you're under the cap--now, if it's a trade exception they got somehow, then we're talking, but I was under the impression that they didn't have the MLE.
 
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Biclops said:
I just read on the Hawks board that we ARE GETTING Atlanta's Mid-level exception

I dont know if it is credible but it makes the trade much easier to swallow. All we have to do now is sign more quality free agents or split it signing Hunter and someone else


The Hawks don't HAVE a the MLE because they are under the cap. Only teams over the cap get an exception to the cap (see the Suns last year).

However...we WILL get a trade exception.
 
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Chaplin

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wilecoyotesupergenius said:
The Hawks don't HAVE a trade exception because they are under the cap. Only teams over the cap get an exception to the cap (see the Suns last year).

However...we WILL get a trade exception.

Your wording is wrong. The MLE isn't a "trade exception", it's just an exception that allows teams over the cap to sign someone to a 5 million dollar contract.
 

AsUdUdE

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I really thinkk Im going to be sick... what really is getting me... is the suns shouldhave NEED TO, Demand Childress or Smith or Harrington, for me to swallow this pill.... A trade of any one of them, plus 2 unprotected firsts, PLUS the midl level exception would be enough for me NOT TO FREAK OUT ON THE SUNS!

The suns are getting bent over here... a championship team that was built for the future, is now getting dismantled. 2/5 of our starting lineup is gone.....


Now for a ray of sunshine.... If the suns can sign Finley, Walker, and hunter to deals.... Then I may be abale to swallow this deal, and may be able to forgive the suns...

oh well, I suppose if we should just trust the suns... it worked out well last time we traded a provem player for garbage... maybe it will work out again?
 

JCSunsfan

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newfan101 said:
Welcome to the Robert Sarver era, folks.

The honeymoon is over.

They were willing to match, but JJ wanted to go. That's the issue here. He burned his bridges. Reminds me of Charles trying to get traded.
 
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Chaplin said:
Your wording is wrong. The MLE isn't a "trade exception", it's just an exception that allows teams over the cap to sign someone to a 5 million dollar contract.



My bad (but you knew what I meant)....I'm just pissed off....and I bought a mini ticket package in June too......
 

Biclops

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wilecoyotesupergenius said:
However...we WILL get a trade exception.

Anyone care to guess how much of a trade exception we might be getting?
 

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wilecoyotesupergenius said:
The Hawks don't HAVE a the MLE because they are under the cap. Only teams over the cap get an exception to the cap (see the Suns last year).

However...we WILL get a trade exception.


Well actually they did have the MLE, they just renounced it :p

(sorry, this is concept has a long history here - meant as a joke)
 

AsUdUdE

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JJ is the one to blame... This is Antonio McDyess all over again...... Screw JJ, let him go ROT IN ATL, I hope he LOSES 62 games next year, AND HAS TO WATCH PHOENIX in the finals for years to come....


JJ you had it all, you and Amare could have been dominant... and you threw it all away, Enjoy your 70 Million, because your certainly not going to enjoy the game of basketball for the next few years (Atleast I hope your not)
 

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Biclops said:
Anyone care to guess how much of a trade exception we might be getting?


It will be $11,247,720 assuming that Diaw is the only player coming back in the trade. Joe's starting salary will be 12,375,000
 

Chaplin

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thegrahamcrackr said:
It will be $11,247,720 assuming that Diaw is the only player coming back in the trade. Joe's starting salary will be 12,375,000

ESPN says 5mil.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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In all honestly this is pretty close to the sign and trade that I expected. Denver set the bar last summer with the 3 first rounders, and this is pretty close to it.
 

Chaplin

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It appears that Joe Johnson's wish to swap a supporting role in Phoenix for star status in Atlanta is on the verge of being granted.


Joe Johnson
Guard-Forward
Phoenix Suns
Profile


2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
82 17.1 5.1 3.5 .461 .750

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that the Suns and Hawks have locked into serious trade discussions that could send Johnson to the Eastern Conference via sign-and-trade as early as Tuesday afternoon.

The proposed deal, according to sources, would bring guard Boris Diaw and two future first-round picks to Phoenix -- along with a trade exception in the $5 million range -- after Johnson signs a contract under terms established by Atlanta: $70 million over five years with an estimated balloon payment of $20 million up front.

Johnson, a restricted free agent, has been planning for weeks to sign a five-year, $70 million offer sheet from Atlanta as soon as the league's moratorium on signings is lifted Tuesday at noon. On Thursday, Johnson stunned Suns managing partner Robert Sarver by asking Sarver directly not to match the offer, telling his boss that he prefers to continue his career as a Hawk. On Friday, at teammate Steve Nash's charity game in Toronto, Johnson revealed the request to ESPN.com and spoke excitedly about the opportunity to play point guard with the Hawks.

After maintaining for weeks that it would match any offer sheet Johnson signs, Phoenix chose a new course this weekend, ultimately deciding it was better for team chemistry to pursue a sign-and-trade with Atlanta instead of investing huge sums in a player who wants to leave.

Johnson's increasingly imminent departure is a coup for the desperate Hawks and an undeniable blow to the Suns, who have long considered the versatile swingman no less critical to last season's overwhelming success than any of their three All-Stars: Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Steve Nash. Next to Nash, the league's newly minted MVP, Johnson was the only other dependable playmaker on a 62-win team and shot a deadly 47.8 percent from 3-point range.

Phoenix, though, has always liked Diaw, a rugged defender and underrated ballhandler from France, and sees him as part of a three- or four-man platoon to replace Johnson, who desires a bigger role than he can have with the star-laden Suns.

Phoenix struck a verbal agreement with Utah's Raja Bell, another defensive specialist with an underrated offensive game, on the first day of free agency. It also still has swingman Jim Jackson, who filled in ably for Johnson during a second-round dismissal of Dallas.

Johnson's exit would likewise spark the Suns to intensify their pursuit of the Dallas Mavericks' Michael Finley. Dallas is expected to waive Finley via the new "amnesty clause" that gives teams a one-time opportunity to release a player without paying any further luxury tax on his contract, unless the Mavericks can trade Finley to an Eastern Conference team before the Aug. 15 deadline for using the amnesty provision.

As an amnesty casualty, Finley would still receive what's left on his Mavericks contract (nearly $52 million) and also have the opportunity to choose his next team in free agency. The list of teams lining up to bid for Finley is a long one, featuring NBA Finals foes San Antonio and Detroit and virtually every other playoff contender in the league, but Phoenix possesses a couple of recruiting advantages.

Finley is received warmly by Suns fans to this day, after Phoenix drafted him No. 21 overall in 1995. The 32-year-old will also be lobbied hard by Nash, who remains one of his closest friends in the league -- along with Dirk Nowitzki -- after the trio's long run together in Dallas. Finley joined Johnson in attendance at Nash's charity game in Toronto, even though his ongoing recovery from June ankle surgery prevented him from playing.

The concern for the Suns is that, with only limited free-agent resources left this summer, they'll be outbid for Finley by most of his suitors.

Landing Johnson, meanwhile, ranks as a huge catch for Hawks general manager Billy Knight, who has struggled since last summer to convert his considerable salary-cap space into a marquee acquisition. Having whiffed a year ago in its attempts to score free agents such as Kenyon Martin and Erick Dampier, Atlanta has been quietly optimistic that it would be able to import Johnson as a point guard to team with its cadre of young swingmen: Al Harrington, Josh Childress, Josh Smith and Marvin Williams, selected No. 2 overall in the recent draft.

"I love the idea," Johnson told ESPN.com on Friday. "I'd love that, having the ball in my hands. I think I'm a great shooter, but that's where I think I'm most effective, making decisions."

In his first extended interview about his future since free agency began Friday, Johnson said his desire to leave the Suns involves "a lot of things," starting with contentious negotiations on a contract extension last October that broke off with sides about $5 million apart. Johnson was rankled further earlier this month when, after a breakout season for himself and the team, Phoenix offered only $60 million over six years.

Yet sources close to the situation also insist that Johnson is most unhappy with what he perceives as his standing as a "fourth wheel" behind Stoudemire, Marion and especially Nash. The native of nearby Arkansas would instantly have his own team to run in Atlanta and become a franchise face for a club teeming with inexperience.

Because the Hawks are so far under the salary cap, and because Johnson will become a base-year compensation player after signing his new deal, Phoenix won't be required in a trade to take back contracts in the neighborhood of Johnson's first-year salary of $12 million. Diaw has two seasons left on his contract totaling just over $3 million.

On top of the draft picks in the deal, the trade exception -- good for one year -- gives Phoenix the ability to take back more salary in a future trade than it gives up and thus provides another vehicle for acquiring a contributor.

Given Sarver's stated aversion to letting his annual payroll stray far beyond $50 million, replacing Johnson with Bell, Diaw, two draft picks, a trade exception and perhaps even Finley (if the Suns are so fortunate) holds considerable appeal. Although sources insist that Sarver was intent on matching an offer sheet to Johnson, doing so would have put Phoenix in the rare position of carrying four players who earn roughly $50 million by themselves, with Stoudemire soon to receive a maximum contract extension that would kick in starting with the 2006-07 season. And Kurt Thomas, another recent acquisition from New York in a trade for Quentin Richardson, has three seasons left on his deal at an average of more than $7 million.

"You've got to go where you're comfortable," Johnson said Friday in explaining his wish to swap Phoenix for Atlanta.

With the Hawks unable to sign the restricted free agent outright, a sign-and-trade has emerged as the most comfortable compromise for Johnson and the two teams involved.
 

hsandhu

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thegrahamcrackr said:
It will be $11,247,720 assuming that Diaw is the only player coming back in the trade. Joe's starting salary will be 12,375,000

But what can we do with that, are their any really good players making 11.2, whose teams are willing to unload them? The suns should really investigate this before making the trade, but given the huge incompentencey of this franchise i don't expect that, and they'll end up with someone like brian grant.
 

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CaptainInsano said:
]

Amen, people can blame sarver and that's understandable because of what we had, but things just really developed into a cluster#### this year. We traded Q for kurt and that looked good, but now it's horrible since we lost JJ.
.

I'll tell you right now that I would still be fine with the Q trade if we found out about it tomorrow instead of last month. I'd rather have Kurt Thomas.

thegrahamcrackr said:
It will be $11,247,720 assuming that Diaw is the only player coming back in the trade. Joe's starting salary will be 12,375,000

I assumed that it was JJ's BYC amount that would be counted for a trade exception. I assumed it would be 75% of that amount minus Diaw's salary.

I thought I remembered that New Jersey got a $4.9 million trade exception from trading Kenyon Martin last summer. Or was that from something else?

I don't like this one bit. Who the hell cares if JJ said he would prefer to play in Atlanta? He also said that he would be just fine coming back here.

Joe Mama
 

thegrahamcrackr

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Joe Mama said:
I assumed that it was JJ's BYC amount that would be counted for a trade exception. I assumed it would be 75% of that amount minus Diaw's salary.

I thought I remembered that New Jersey got a $4.9 million trade exception from trading Kenyon Martin last summer. Or was that from something else?

I don't like this one bit. Who the hell cares if JJ said he would prefer to play in Atlanta? He also said that he would be just fine coming back here.

Joe Mama


Thats right, BYC slipped in my rush.
 

boisesuns

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We'll see what the suns can do with this. We still have three GREAT players. JJ was huge, but really only in this last year. He stuck it to the suns, who actually gave him a chance, and his ego got too big. Good luck in atlanta!



THE HAWKS??????



:eek:
 

Chaz

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Joe Mama said:
I don't like this one bit. Who the hell cares if JJ said he would prefer to play in Atlanta? He also said that he would be just fine coming back here.

Joe Mama



I agree.

This sounds like Sarver getting cold feet on paying that contract for JJ.
 

Mainstreet

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I guess I'm in the minority right now, but if JJ does not want to be Sun I'm glad he's out of here.

I don't want to say I told you so, but I predicted last year a sign and trade would be forthcoming with JJ this year when the Suns did not extend his contract. Just simple math.

However, I would never release him without compensation. I think if the Suns get adequate compensation, and I hope they are, Diaw, two number ones, and a trade exception sounds great to me.

My only concern, which I hope the Suns have already addressed verbally, is extending Amare and making sure he is on board. This is the critical issue, IMO.

What the Suns downfall last year was a lack of depth. Now hopefully we can acquire it.

Most teams have only two core players anyway and the Suns have three: Nash, Amare and Marion.

Only if JJ turns into a Magic Johnson will I be sorry.
 

Chaplin

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Personally, I think Atlanta is asking for trouble wanting JJ to play Point Guard full time. The guy may look good in spot duty for 10 minutes a game, but to play the point for 40? Ain't gonna work.

I really don't care about Diaw at all. I can take or leave him, although I like his size. What I DO care about is the picks. Specifically, the PROTECTION on the picks. 2 top 10 protected picks are worthless in this trade, I can stand a top 3 and a top 8 protected pick or something, but there better be some good protection--JJ is projected to be their star player--we better get compensated for giving them that.
 

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Chaplin said:
Your wording is wrong. The MLE isn't a "trade exception", it's just an exception that allows teams over the cap to sign someone to a 5 million dollar contract.

1. The Hawks don't have an MLE--they assuredly renounced it to maximize their cap space, just like the Suns did last summer.

2. The Suns will get a trade exception, which will be the difference between the contracts going out and the contracts coming in. I'm not sure how Joe J's base-year status will affect the trade exception.


Here's my take on the fallout here, if it's true:


Good: the Suns will be more sustainable financially for the long term. There's no way they could afford to sign all their role players to big contracts, just because the team's system inflates their stats.

Bad: the Suns aren't built for the long term--they're built for right now. There's no way to jibe this S&T deal with the Kurt Thomas trade.

Good: the Suns open up room for Michael Finley, so they might actually profit in some way from the amnesty rule.

Bad: Michael Finley is not a lock to come here--not even close.

Good: the Suns will play Barbosa more this year, because they'll have to rely on him to guard quick PGs.

Bad: the Suns will have to play Barbosa more this year.

Good: Diaw is a player with real talent. It's possible that the Suns will tease that talent out of him.

Bad: Diaw is a long-shot at best, and you can probably write off both of the two first-rounders the Suns are getting. Even an unprotected Hawks first-rounder for next year isn't going to get the Suns into the high lottery.

Good: the Suns have a trade exception now.

Bad: they can't get much from it, and probably won't use it.

Bad: this doesn't help the Suns re-sign Amare.



I think the key points are that this trade hurts the Suns for next year's 'championship run' (which is apparently what they've been building towards, until this point), and it hurts them with Amare. If Amare doesn't re-sign this summer...I'd prefer not to think about the consequences for that. :mad:
 

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JJ apparently needs to be the "man" on a bad team, have fun Joe. Reminds me of a song lyric by Pink Floyd, "and did you exchange, a walk on part in the war, for a lead role in a cage". Wish You Were Here 1975.
 

clif

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At what point will a grown ass man be held accountable for his actions? People keep blaming Sarver when this punk ( yes I called him a punk) comes out and says... hey I want to be the man on a scrub team. I 'm sorry, but that is just BS. Call it negotiating all you want, but there was no need for it.
 

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