Suns Trade for Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler

[chickenhead]

I am so tired of the tanking stuff. You don't pass on good opportunities. That's the way to stay in the basement forever.

+1. It's great that the year the Suns will likely have one of their worst records is a year that will supposedly have a great draft. But this isn't the NFL. The #1 potentially means a lot more in basketball, and yet the draft lottery might mean you don't get it. This is an exciting trade, but it's not a "win now" or "stay relevant" trade. OKC didn't build their team just by tanking, for example, and they didn't even take Durant with the #1 pick.

 

[SunsTzu]

I really liked Bledsoe coming out of KU(also why I liked the Goodwin pick because he reminds me of a bigger Bledsoe) and I love this trade.

This is really the first move McDonough has made that can be properly gauged since we have a far better picture of the players involved than we do of a rookie HC or guys who haven't played a NBA game yet. I think he's looking pretty good right now and I'm anxious to see what else he has lined up.

 

[Phrazbit]

Hate it. Next years draft is supposed to be the best since the lebron draft is ever there was a year to tank is next year. I do not want to see them make moves that make sense now

First off, Bledsoe is exactly the kind of player a rebuilding team should target, a young guy with huge potential still on his rookie deal.

Second, as eric pointed out, this trade might make us a bit worse in the short term. Dudley was our only competent wing player and our outside shooting projects to be horrific (it was worst in the league last year despite Dudley's solid shooting).

Third... we could go 0-82 and still only have a 25% chance of getting the first pick. I hope we stumble into that pick but to expect to delibertely put together a horrible team and then get rewarded with the top pick is only setting yourself up for an extremely bitter disappointment. I have little doubt we will be one of the worst 5 teams in the league, so we will have our chance, Bledsoe or Dudley be damned.

 

[TJ]

I really liked Bledsoe coming out of KU(also why I liked the Goodwin pick because he reminds me of a bigger Bledsoe) and I love this trade.

This is really the first move McDonough has made that can be properly gauged since we have a far better picture of the players involved than we do of a rookie HC or guys who haven't played a NBA game yet. I think he's looking pretty good right now and I'm anxious to see what else he has lined up.

BIM: UK (University of Kentucky).

DWKB would roast you for that, seeing as he's a die-hard KU (Kansas) fan.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I do know this, Bledsoe is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year, and when he sits, Goodwin hits the floor.

 

[TJ]

At this point, I want to see the Suns start improving gradually, which is a realistic expectation. I don't like putting my faith in collecting ping pong balls to try and rebuild the team. This season was example of that where we had the best chance of winning the lottery in the franchise's history and ended up falling back one spot because we were leapfrogged by a team with less ping pong balls.

The Bledsoe deal brings a very young, dynamic point guard that can grow and develop while the roster continues to be replenished with talent.

 

[TJ]

I do know this, Bledsoe is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year, and when he sits, Goodwin hits the floor.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I want no business in Goodwin playing point, unless it's an emergency.

 

[elindholm]

This season was example of that where we had the best chance of winning the lottery in the franchise's history

Didn't the Suns have a 50% chance of getting Alcindor?

 

[Suns in rebuild mode]

Wait he's to short because he's the same size as Trey Burke!

Not he way more athletic and much stronger. But at the same time when you watch Bledsoe play and guys like Parker as well I never got the whole Trey Burke's to small thing.

On the Trade and Belsoe really it's to early to tell if it was a good move who's know's we may of got a Lillard type pg or a Iman Shumpert that can't shoot but i'd lean towards the Lillard compariaon which would be perfect for Dragic to finally take some pressure off him and let him play off the ball some.

Only problem I have with this trade is it very well could have taken us out of the top 5 in next years draft we didn't have to have Wiggins it just would have been a bonus to get him. Because Bledsoe-Dragic-Butler-Frye/Scola- Gortat then Markiff,Len,Goodwin coming off the bench I'll say you could do a lot worse than that. Sure teams like the Cavs or Magic even the Kings maybe have younger talented players but we have vets and that alone could net us 5 wins or so.

I hope like heck we move at least Gortat,Butler and Scola and maybe even Dragic if the right trade came along.

Think if we had a opening day Starting line up in 2014 of Bledsoe-Goodwin-Wiggins-??Free Agent??- Len not to mention Likely Minny's pick now and more picks if we traded Gortat or maybe a Mathews and Batum for Gortat,Brown and Butler. Basicly if we can get a top 5 pick next year were in a great spot to turn this thing around real quick.

 

[sunsfan88]

McDonough job isn't to worry about fan favorites. Unless it's someone like Nash, I'm sure the thought never enters his mind. His job is to field the best team he can. If a trade comes along tomorrow for Bledsoe that he likes, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate.

People here and other Suns boards are getting carried away with this trade. The Suns just traded Dudley and a second round pick. It's a nice trade. They didn't get a star. They didn't even get a guy who's a lock to be a top level player. They got a guy with potential. That's it. Potential that can't shoot, the most important skill in basketball. If he was as good as everyone here thinks he is, I guarantee you Dudley and a second wouldn't have secured the deal. The Clippers have obviously been in negotiations with every other team (or most). If this is the best the Clippers could do, other GM's in the league don't think as highly of Bledsoe.

You know what's funny? When the Rockets got James Harden, he was no lock to be a top level either. He was just a guy with potential.

When the Cavs draft some guy named LeBron James in 2004, he wasn't a lock to be a top level player either. He was just a guy with potential.

When the Lakers got Kobe in 1996, he wasn't a lock to be a top level player either. He was just a guy with potential.

Top level players become top level players by fulfilling their potential. And the Suns just got a guy who has the potential to be a top level player. (though I would never put Bledsoe in the same class of guys as Kobe, LeBron, Durant etc.)

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know what's funny? When the Rockets got James Harden, he was no lock to be a top level either. He was just a guy with potential.

When the Cavs draft some guy named LeBron James in 2004, he wasn't a lock to be a top level player either. He was just a guy with potential.

I LOVE the Bledsoe trade, but to say LeBron and Harden were just "guys with potential" is laughable. Harden was a 6th man of the year, former 3rd pick, budding superstar and LeBron James was the most surefire pick of all time.

neither of them belong in any conversation with Bledsoe, nor need to be.

 

[sunsfan88]

Dudley and a 2nd round pick for a young player with potential, what's not to like? Jared can be an excellent complementary piece for a team like the Clippers. He plays above average defense, he does all the little things, is a great locker room presence and can nail the three. He may not be a star but he fills their need. The Clippers may well have received some strong offers, they just might not have met the need that Dudley does.

Steve

You misunderstood him. He's talking about Bledsoe not Dudley.

 

[sunsfan88]

I LOVE the Bledsoe trade, but to say LeBron and Harden were just "guys with potential" is laughable. Harden was a 6th man of the year, former 3rd pick, budding superstar and LeBron James was the most surefire pick of all time.

neither of them belong in any conversation with Bledsoe, nor need to be.

And I clearly said that in my post as well. Thanks for reading though.

And Harden absolutely was a risk. A lot of people out there felt that Harden only did good because the defense focused on Westbrook and Durant so much and that Harden only does well coming off the bench in limited minutes and such.

Hell, there were people HERE ON THIS FORUM that did not want the Suns to trade Gortat, Dudley and picks for Harden. If Harden was such a lock then I'm sure that people wouldn't have minded the Suns trading away their first round picks for the next 2-4 years to get a guy like Harden.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You misunderstood him. He's talking about Bledsoe not Dudley.

I didn't misunderstand him. I was arguing against his claim that Bledsoe couldn't be all that great if Dudley was their best offer.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Hate it. Next years draft is supposed to be the best since the lebron draft is ever there was a year to tank is next year. I do not want to see them make moves that make sense now

Bledsoe isn't THAT good yet. And who knows if he ever even will be. Suns lost Dudley and added Bledsoe and Butler. I can guarantee you that we did not get much better if any at all in the short term.

I do know this, Bledsoe is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year, and when he sits, Goodwin hits the floor.

That's exactly what I was thinking. We're finally gonna have athletic freaks on this team.

Plus Bledsoe is the perfect kind of guard for Goodwin to try and mold his game after. Hopefully Goodwin could just turn out to be a better shooter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And I clearly said that in my post as well. Thanks for reading though.

I did read it...doesn't change the fact that you used them as example in some kind of comparison to Bledsoe. If you weren't making any kind of comparison, then it was pointless to bring it up.

And Harden absolutely was a risk. A lot of people out there felt that Harden only did good because the defense focused on Westbrook and Durant so much and that Harden only does well coming off the bench in limited minutes and such.

No he wasn't...and he wasn't ANY kind of risk like Bledsoe. no one who knew basketball and followed it believed any of the above. at least the overwhelming majority of the basketball following world didn't believe the nonsense above.

Hell, there were people HERE ON THIS FORUM that did not want the Suns to trade Gortat, Dudley and picks for Harden.

so what? There were people ON THIS FORUM who thought Beasely could turn it around. Even more ridiculous were people ON THIS FORUM who thought that signing Gordon to a MAX contract was a good idea...or that the Suns would be better then the Mavs last year. Pretty sure those people even made a bet they would never post here again if the Suns weren't better then the Mavs. And i'm pretty sure you know EXACTLY who I'm talking about.

If Harden was such a lock then I'm sure that people wouldn't have minded the Suns trading away their first round picks for the next 2-4 years to get a guy like Harden.

people on this forum overrate Suns players and have for eternity because it's a suns forum. Nothing that people say here changed the ludicrousness of bringing LeBron/Harden's potential into question the same way as Bledsoe.

 

[sunsfan88]

I didn't misunderstand him. I was arguing against his claim that Bledsoe couldn't be all that great if Dudley was their best offer.

Steve

Oh I see. My bad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And I clearly said that in my post as well. Thanks for reading though.

And Harden absolutely was a risk. A lot of people out there felt that Harden only did good because the defense focused on Westbrook and Durant so much and that Harden only does well coming off the bench in limited minutes and such.

Hell, there were people HERE ON THIS FORUM that did not want the Suns to trade Gortat, Dudley and picks for Harden. If Harden was such a lock then I'm sure that people wouldn't have minded the Suns trading away their first round picks for the next 2-4 years to get a guy like Harden.

I was against trading mulitple 1st round picks plus Gortat, Dudley and IIRC Dragic for Harden. I expected Harden to be very good, much better than I expect Bledsoe to ever become and I am still against that kind of trade. It would have doomed us to mediocrity or worse for the length of Harden's deal and then we'd probably be in even worse shape (IMO).

If we'd have been your average bad team, I'd have been fine with the deal but our cupboard was as close to bare as any team in recent memory. I just couldn't envision us recovering from the loss of even more first round picks especially since we would have been without any other decent players. Obviously, many posters here disagreed with me.

IOW, I don't think anyone here really considered Harden a risk.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

I did read it...doesn't change the fact that you used them as example in some kind of comparison to Bledsoe. If you weren't making any kind of comparison, then it was pointless to bring it up.



No he wasn't...and he wasn't ANY kind of risk like Bledsoe. no one who knew basketball and followed it believed any of the above. at least the overwhelming majority of the basketball following world didn't believe the nonsense above.



so what? There were people ON THIS FORUM who thought Beasely could turn it around. Even more ridiculous were people ON THIS FORUM who thought that signing Gordon to a MAX contract was a good idea...or that the Suns would be better then the Mavs last year. Pretty sure those people even made a bet they would never post here again if the Suns weren't better then the Mavs. And i'm pretty sure you know EXACTLY who I'm talking about.



people on this forum overrate Suns players and have for eternity because it's a suns forum. Nothing that people say here changed the ludicrousness of bringing LeBron/Harden's potential into question the same way as Bledsoe.

There was plenty of people and plenty of articles written about what I said about Harden right now.

If everyone knew that Harden would be as good as he is now, like you say they do, then why didn't OKC get better offers? I'm sure the Bobcats would have offered their first round picks for the next 20 years, I bet Washington would have have gave up Beal, Wall, first round picks whatever the hell OKC wanted, and I bet the Raptors wouldn't have denied a deal that surrounded around Harden for Valaciunas.

I'll agree that he was less of a risk than Bledsoe but to say that Harden wasn't a risk and that everyone who followed basketball knew he would turn into a 26, 7 and 4 type guy is ridiculous. If OKC knew that they would have traded Westbrook instead!

And I never bet with anyone that I'll leave the forum if the Suns aren't better than the Mavs...I do remember saying that the Suns will be better than the Mavs but I know I didn't bet with anyone about it. Only bet I made was with Phrazbit about the Suns making the playoffs and I lost that bet and that was a sig bet which I followed through on my end.

People on this forum may overrate Suns players but that's cause there's plenty here to diminish Suns players too. There are certain people who desperately try to hate on Len and talk about how he's won't be successful before he's even played a game. And i'm pretty sure you know EXACTLY who I'm talking about.

 

[sunsfan88]

I was against trading mulitple 1st round picks plus Gortat, Dudley and IIRC Dragic for Harden. I expected Harden to be very good, much better than I expect Bledsoe to ever become and I am still against that kind of trade. It would have doomed us to mediocrity or worse for the length of Harden's deal and then we'd probably be in even worse shape (IMO).

If we'd have been your average bad team, I'd have been fine with the deal but our cupboard was as close to bare as any team in recent memory. I just couldn't envision us recovering from the loss of even more first round picks especially since we would have been without any other decent players. Obviously, many posters here disagreed with me.

IOW, I don't think anyone here really considered Harden a risk.

Steve

Eh, if Harden had been able to lure stars to PHX then it really wouldn't have mattered about those picks. I don't think we would have sent more than 2 first round picks to them anyway.

 

[Phrazbit]

If he was as good as everyone here thinks he is, I guarantee you Dudley and a second wouldn't have secured the deal. The Clippers have obviously been in negotiations with every other team (or most). If this is the best the Clippers could do, other GM's in the league don't think as highly of Bledsoe.

The Clippers got a pretty sweet deal. They landed two really talented shooters in Reddick and Dudley and they unloaded a contract that was going to hurt them with the tax. Bledsoe could be every bit as good as people on this board are hoping he is and that would still be a solid trade from the Clippers end. They are not rebuilding, future draft picks, ect dont help them. They are at the stage where they're a contender that needs to fill in holes and get guys who know how to play key roles on a good team. They got exactly that and at positions they needed help.

The team in this trade who I cant comprehend their thinking is the Bucks. They overpaid in trade value to get JJ in the first place and now they give him away for some 2nd round picks. Awful.

 

[hcsilla]

I can't even remember the last time the Suns traded for an exciting prospect.

I think that the last one was for Joe Johnson.

 

[hcsilla]

Thunder / Suns
Dragic for Lamb + Jones + future pick

I highly doubt that the Thunder would be ready to add Dragic's size of contract without getting rid of Perkins.

Blazers / Suns
Gortat for Leonard + Mccollum

I guess if the Blazers would have agreed to such kind of deals, it would have happened already.

In other words: I don't think that we could get better offers than this for Gortat.

Having said that, I don't see how McCollum would fit in the Suns.


How about Dragic, Butler for Salmons, SAC 2014 2nd round pick, draft rights to McLemore?

 

[AfroSuns]

At this point, I want to see the Suns start improving gradually, which is a realistic expectation. I don't like putting my faith in collecting ping pong balls to try and rebuild the team. This season was example of that where we had the best chance of winning the lottery in the franchise's history and ended up falling back one spot because we were leapfrogged by a team with less ping pong balls.

The Bledsoe deal brings a very young, dynamic point guard that can grow and develop while the roster continues to be replenished with talent.

+1000

Some are so hung up on next year's draft. Some teams have been bottom dwellers for years and no championship to show for being in the lottery year after year.

I like Dudley but this is too good a trade to pass up and i do think it makes us better, just not good enough.
Now, If only McD can find a way to get rid of Beastley and Brown........

 

[Suns in rebuild mode]

I didn't misunderstand him. I was arguing against his claim that Bledsoe couldn't be all that great if Dudley was their best offer.

Steve

Just to kind of add to what you were saying what did OKC get in return for James Harden(a guy who at least was a star and now a super star) a 1 year rental and two rookies(Adams and Lamb)

Kind of funny looking back because they likely could have gotten Dudley and Gortat but no Draft picks and they wanted out top 5 draft pick I'm sure. I think that they'd probably take Duds and Gortat now.

Another when we traded Deng(draft pick) or Fernandez(draft pick)or Rondo(draft pick) every trade isn't a good one how about when we got Gortat I guarantee you the Magic wouldn't have given him up for what we gave them if they had known he was going to turn out to be the player he is. The Bynum trade is another one to. Somebody more than likely is going to come out looking better so hopefully its use this time.

Man how sick would a line up including Bledsoe Wiggins and Goodwin be and Athletically that be an insane duo to have to defend in an up and game. We now just need a little luck about a year from now in the draft.