Suns @ Trail Blazers 12-6-18

[pokerface]

Yes they did but I don't think that really changes much. You still have to get lucky enough so that you'd have a top pick in a draft with great players. Same still applies. That approach calls for losing until you no longer need to lose, not lose until you get the number one pick because there's no guarantee that the top player you get is actually a generational star.

We probably should not have gone down the tanking path (except in season closeouts). But since we did, we can either abandon it, start all over again from a lower spot than when we first opted to go all Hinkie or we can let it play out. Keep being bad until you get the game changer you're in search of. The Hinkie approach isn't designed so you can get a Jamal Murray or Damian Lillard, the goal is an Anthony Davis or Lebron James type star.

I know ....it's just seeming like long shot on top of long shot now. It's a long shot we get a top pick...then it's a long shot we get a generational superstar. I mean what good is getting top picks if they aren't being developed correctly? Was Bender really a washout? Was Chriss? Is Jackson? Are we flushing our draft picks because we don't know how to handle them? I think we have sufficient picks now to have seen ''some" difference...not more of the same. I get Booker and Warren are hurt but when they weren't hurting we still stunk. So I don't know ..I guess keep stinking because we don't have another choice but that hurts our free agency too . Lets see what next summer brings with more cap space available and another high draft pick. As far as this season I'm ticked off.

 

[leclerc]

The sky is falling, but it's just sports, so meh. I might watch some of the game tomorrow (next day in Norway) or I might just scroll the game thread and set myself on fire.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hmm. Maybe Okobo will start.

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[Mainstreet]

Translation: I'm desperate. I'd start The Gorilla if he had a good night.

It certainly couldn't hurt.

I'm of a mind Melton should start after coming off a nice game but Okobo was wearing a starter's practice jersey at shootaround.

 

[Hoop Head]

So are you suggesting we don't draft a Michael Jordan or Charles Barkley because our team will just ruin them? And no, Zion is not like either of them but for all we know, he could become just as great.

I think it's a horrible plan to aim for Zion hoping he can turn this team around. Of course if we do end up with the chance to get him then we should but adding Zion alone won't turn this team around. A lot more than adding a pick needs to be done.

I think we would probably be better off trading the pick for a more established player to fit with our core in hopes of turning things around. That could mean passing on Zion and it would be hard to do but it's too early to tell right now. I'm not counting on another rookie to change this team's culture.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if we become one of those teams that top prospects start angling to stay away from before they're even drafted. I hope that doesn't happen this year but if I heard Zion say something about he'd be happy to go anywhere but Phoenix, I wouldn't blame him that much. Yes, we have Booker and Ayton in place already but what have they done? They'll lighten the load for a rookie like Zion but he could also look at it is coming into a losing situation where he's the 2nd or 3rd guy on the totem pole and I doubt that's the sort of situation he wants to come into, especially since we're not winning.

It would be different if we were Boston who happens to own a high lottery pick and would be adding a top prospect to a title contender but not a team that's finished last or 2nd to last for the last 4 years.

 

[Superbone]

The sky is falling, but it's just sports, so meh. I might watch some of the game tomorrow (next day in Norway) or I might just scroll the game thread and set myself on fire.

Please don't set yourself on fire. I had the pleasure of visiting your beautiful country earlier this year. It would be a shame to scorch it.

 

[Mainstreet]

And that falls on effort. I give a guy like Holmes a lot of credit for battling every night and playing effort on the mins he's on the floor. I wish the high profile players on the team brought that type of effort.

I agree about Holmes. Other bench players should have the same attitude. They should be starved to play and give maximum effort.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The sky is falling, but it's just sports, so meh. I might watch some of the game tomorrow (next day in Norway) or I might just scroll the game thread and set myself on fire.

ha!

 

[leclerc]

Please don't set yourself on fire. I had the pleasure of visiting your beautiful country earlier this year. It would be a shame to scorch it.

Nice. What parts did you visit? I live and work in Oslo (capitol).

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, pure speculation and reading into nothing here, BUT...

I feel some of the same since the start of the season. Chandler wanted out, personnel exchanged, coaching changed but there's still an underlying issue somewhere.

New players, new coaching and supposedly more talent on paper than last years team but we are underperforming.

There is a dark cloud coming from somewhere. I'm not looking at the win-loss column but this Suns team should play hungry.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

"can't coach effort"? BS!
it's the coach's job to do just that -- motivate, inspire. use positive and negative reinforcement
motivation is what makes home court an advantage. the crowd motivates their team to increase their effort

you can't force a player to do anything
but you can inspire them to do anything

Very much disagree with this. The coach has many jobs (gameplanning, working out rotations and looking for the propper adjustments to make throughout the game to name a few) and telling players to "play hard" is not one of them. The coach can however pull players out of the game when they aren't playing hard and that could be considered coaching (he has done this btw), but the players themselves truly dictate how hard they will play. Good teams that play hard everynight don't play that way because the coach is telling them to do it, but because they have multiple players that put it upon themselves to push each other to keep playing that way. Ultimately we need more quality vets that give everyone else the example to follow. We saw this to an extent for that stretch of 5 or so games where Booker was working really hard on both ends and you could see it rub off on the rest of the team.

 

[95pro]

Very much disagree with this. The coach has many jobs (gameplanning, working out rotations and looking for the propper adjustments to make throughout the game to name a few) and telling players to "play hard" is not one of them. The coach can however pull players out of the game when they aren't playing hard and that could be considered coaching (he has done this btw), but the players themselves truly dictate how hard they will play. Good teams that play hard everynight don't play that way because the coach is telling them to do it, but because they have multiple players that put it upon themselves to push each other to keep playing that way. Ultimately we need more quality vets that give everyone else the example to follow. We saw this to an extent for that stretch of 5 or so games where Booker was working really hard on both ends and you could see it rub off on the rest of the team.

If we had PJ Tucker, Holmes on the floor and maybe JJ along with 2 terrific scorers then I can see where they'd be infectious to one another. But my gosh some of these guys don't have the motor, drive or physical activity to make it so.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If we had PJ Tucker, Holmes on the floor and maybe JJ along with 2 terrific scorers then I can see where they'd be infectious to one another. But my gosh some of these guys don't have the motor, drive or physical activity to make it so.

They don't have strong leaders on the court. That and a couple positional weaknesses is why this team has had so many stinkers. Strong leadership on the court will increase effort far more than anything else. One of the major issues is that the guy that we went out and spent $15m on this summer to do just that has possibly been one of the worst culprits to not showing consistent effort.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This team needs a Larry Brown/Doug Collins/even Scotty Brooks type HC who has ACTUAL HC experience/success and is known for developing young guys.

Collins and Brown are obviously too old, but does that guy actually exist in today's game?

 

[Mainstreet]

The sky is falling, but it's just sports, so meh. I might watch some of the game tomorrow (next day in Norway) or I might just scroll the game thread and set myself on fire.

I recommend you don't read the game thread. LOL

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think it's a horrible plan to aim for Zion hoping he can turn this team around. Of course if we do end up with the chance to get him then we should but adding Zion alone won't turn this team around. A lot more than adding a pick needs to be done.

I think we would probably be better off trading the pick for a more established player to fit with our core in hopes of turning things around. That could mean passing on Zion and it would be hard to do but it's too early to tell right now. I'm not counting on another rookie to change this team's culture.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if we become one of those teams that top prospects start angling to stay away from before they're even drafted. I hope that doesn't happen this year but if I heard Zion say something about he'd be happy to go anywhere but Phoenix, I wouldn't blame him that much. Yes, we have Booker and Ayton in place already but what have they done? They'll lighten the load for a rookie like Zion but he could also look at it is coming into a losing situation where he's the 2nd or 3rd guy on the totem pole and I doubt that's the sort of situation he wants to come into, especially since we're not winning.

It would be different if we were Boston who happens to own a high lottery pick and would be adding a top prospect to a title contender but not a team that's finished last or 2nd to last for the last 4 years.

It's not a horrible plan because it isn't a plan. It's a wish, a hope, a dream, a fantasy, a prayer but it's not a plan. And I don't think much of your plan either because we aren't one player away, especially if it's not a superstar, and we aren't an attractive destination right now (not singling out the Suns, most teams fall in this same puddle). The single most important thing we need right now is patience and that seems to be in very short supply organizationally and within the fanbase too.

I think giving up on a 14% chance to draft Zion is about as bad a decision as this franchise can make. Trade away the chance at the top pick when the best player is a Fultz or an Ayton, not when it's someone like Zion. 9 games into the season and the guy is sporting an incredible 43.1 PER, who does that? Ever? IMO, you could dump everyone on this roster and still build a winner around Williamson.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This team needs a Larry Brown/Doug Collins/even Scotty Brooks type HC who has ACTUAL HC experience/success and is known for developing young guys.

Collins and Brown are obviously too old, but does that guy actually exist in today's game?

Assuming good healthy, I'd love to see either guy here either as the coach or as a consultant. Collins is only 67 so he'd make sense either way. Larry is probably too old to coach but I could see him being effective in a part time role with us

 

[Cheesebeef]

Assuming good healthy, I'd love to see either guy here either as the coach or as a consultant. Collins is only 67 so he'd make sense either way. Larry is probably too old to coach but I could see him being effective in a part time role with us

right? Even if you brought one of them in to be a Godfather at least in the FO, maybe we wouldn't look like such a damn clown car.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know ....it's just seeming like long shot on top of long shot now. It's a long shot we get a top pick...then it's a long shot we get a generational superstar. I mean what good is getting top picks if they aren't being developed correctly? Was Bender really a washout? Was Chriss? Is Jackson? Are we flushing our draft picks because we don't know how to handle them? I think we have sufficient picks now to have seen ''some" difference...not more of the same. I get Booker and Warren are hurt but when they weren't hurting we still stunk. So I don't know ..I guess keep stinking because we don't have another choice but that hurts our free agency too . Lets see what next summer brings with more cap space available and another high draft pick. As far as this season I'm ticked off.

I never liked the Hinkie approach not that it matters much because the Suns are so bad.

I'd take a good GM and a good coach over a shot at a early draft pick any day of the week.

The better teams make their own luck.

 

[SirStefan32]

Well, Igor worked for Brown before, so he might want to do his protege a favor.

 

[BC867]

So are you suggesting we don't draft a Michael Jordan or Charles Barkley because our team will just ruin them? And no, Zion is not like either of them but for all we know, he could become just as great.

With the current chaotic ownership and management, yes, they would be frustrated , just as Ayton must be feeling at this time. I've posted that I wouldn't be surprised if he is seeing it in Booker behind the scenes. Truthfully, Steve, wouldn't you or I if we found ourselves in that situation?

Getting a quality Center as our only #1 pick in forever is closer to the category of a Jordan or Barkley (closer) than another Wing.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch this game tonight. If I can't, it'll be the first game I've intentionally missed all season.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch this game tonight. If I can't, it'll be the first game I've intentionally missed all season.

My method lately is to have the box score up on the computer and if it looks like they are actually competing I will turn the game on. Otherwise I opt to give the majority of my attention to other things.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

This team needs a Larry Brown/Doug Collins/even Scotty Brooks type HC who has ACTUAL HC experience/success and is known for developing young guys.

Collins and Brown are obviously too old, but does that guy actually exist in today's game?

Yeah, it would be interesting to see Ayton's reaction/demeanor to a coach screaming at him to move his ass...

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch this game tonight. If I can't, it'll be the first game I've intentionally missed all season.

Hang in there. @CardsSunsDbacks gives good advice.

I keep watching because I feel something is going to happen soon (not exactly sure what) and I want to be a part of it. This mess can't continue forever.