Suns vs Lakers

[sunsfan88]

This is silly. Did Jeff outcoach the other guy every time the Suns won? And marginal talent? What the heck do you think populates our roster? We are a bad team in large part because we too have marginal talent. And Byron Scott has outcoached many a coach in his career or did you think he earned his Coach of the Year award on his good looks? He's a little too set in his ways for my tastes but did you notice how we were torn apart by their 2 combo guard offense?

Len is fumbling his way through our recent games because of a sore hand, not because of Jeff. And Jeff didn't toss our other center out of the game nor tear the meniscus on our best player. And he certainly didn't schedule 4 games in 5 nights at the end of a 34 day stretch that included 20 games, 12 of them on the road. Look at those two lineups and tell me we are that much different than the lowly Lakers. You can't because we aren't. Their best players are young and in need of development, same with us.

Byron Scott is widely regarded as the worst head coach in American professional sports right now. I don't know if your trying to say that he's not bad or something because of him winning coach of the year a long time ago. I mean by that logic, Hornacek must be brilliant with the Suns winning 48 games...like 2-3 years ago.

And the Lakers roster is not more talented than the Suns. I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

And please don't try to make excuses with the scheduling. The Suns could have 5 days off between every game for the entire season and they would still be one of the worst teams in the league and the worst team in franchise history. So no, the scheduling isn't the issue.

I can't believe its come down to fans blaming the scheduling for the Suns getting embarrassed by the Lakers...I never thought this franchise would get to a point this low, my goodness.

 

[Catlover]

Byron Scott is widely regarded as the worst head coach in American professional sports right now. I don't know if your trying to say that he's not bad or something because of him winning coach of the year a long time ago. I mean by that logic, Hornacek must be brilliant with the Suns winning 48 games...like 2-3 years ago.

And the Lakers roster is not more talented than the Suns. I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

And please don't try to make excuses with the scheduling. The Suns could have 5 days off between every game for the entire season and they would still be one of the worst teams in the league and the worst team in franchise history. So no, the scheduling isn't the issue.

I can't believe its come down to fans blaming the scheduling for the Suns getting embarrassed by the Lakers...I never thought this franchise would get to a point this low, my goodness.

I listed several things, one of them was scheduling. If you want to keep making up crap and ignoring facts, well, have at it.

And if you like our roster so much more than theirs, make your case. Come on, let's hear it. Hibbert would probably start for us. They have 3 power forwards that would likely would start for us. And how about Williams and Clarkson, do you really think Knight and whoever is better at this point in time? We probably have an advantage at small forward but it's arguable at best at every other position.

Face it, we are a bad team.

 

[sunsfan88]

I listed several things, one of them was scheduling. If you want to keep making up crap and ignoring facts, well, have at it.

And if you like our roster so much more than theirs, make your case. Come on, let's hear it. Hibbert would probably start for us. They have 3 power forwards that would likely would start for us. And how about Williams and Clarkson, do you really think Knight and whoever is better at this point in time? We probably have an advantage at small forward but it's arguable at best at every other position.

Face it, we are a bad team.

Knight is supposed to be better than Clarkson that's why he got $70M. I'll take Booker over Russel for now. Agreed on the PFs. Chandler and Hibbert are probably a wash. Warren gives the advantage over them overall in terms of talent.

 

[Catlover]

Knight is supposed to be better than Clarkson that's why he got $70M. I'll take Booker over Russel for now. Agreed on the PFs. Chandler and Hibbert are probably a wash. Warren gives the advantage over them overall in terms of talent.

Maybe but Williams is much better than either of them in the short term. I love Booker for the future but he's a liability out there most nights and probably will be for more than just this season. Knight got 70 million because his contract was up, Clarkson will get his and it will probably exceed Brandon's deal. Knight is a little better right now but Clarkson and Williams combined are better than Knight and Booker combined IMO.

 

[sunsfan88]

Maybe but Williams is much better than either of them in the short term. I love Booker for the future but he's a liability out there most nights and probably will be for more than just this season. Knight got 70 million because his contract was up, Clarkson will get his and it will probably exceed Brandon's deal. Knight is a little better right now but Clarkson and Williams combined are better than Knight and Booker combined IMO.

I would compare Lou Williams more so to Warren even though I know Lou is more of a SG and I think I'll take Warren over him.

 

[AZCrazy]

Byron Scott has coached several teams into the finals. The Lakers problem isn't with him. The Suns' problem isn't Hornacek. It's that neither team has even an inkling of high caliber talent on the roster. There isn't one starter on either team that would likely start for any other team.

 

[hcsilla]

Knight got 70 million because his contract was up, Clarkson will get his and it will probably exceed Brandon's deal.

There is no way that Clarkson will get the contract that Knight did unless someone seriously overpays him.

 

[Catlover]

There is no way that Clarkson will get the contract that Knight did unless someone seriously overpays him.

You're probably right. I thought he had another year before he'd be up for a new contract but this is it and he's not quite ready for a big payday.

 

[sunsfan88]

You're probably right. I thought he had another year before he'd be up for a new contract but this is it and he's not quite ready for a big payday.

Neither was Knight and yet he cashed in pretty well. If the Suns could, wouldn't shock me to blow money on another guard.

 

[Phrazbit]

This argument is inane. When you get destroyed like the Suns did its not about getting "out coached". The Suns have given up and Hornacek is lost. When coaches get out coached its when they get dismantled in 4th quarters when clock management, rotations, play design all become far more crucial; think "Mike D'Antoni every time he faced Pop".

Horny didn't get out coached, Horny is getting buried by the compilation of his bad decisions, Bledsoe's injury, a lack of accountability and leadership. All of which have led to a state of grossly inept basketball. Scott didn't come up with some shrewd adjustments to out think Horny, Horny and his team killed themselves, as they've been doing for over a month.

Furthermore, I don't care if Byron Scott took a team to the Finals 13 years ago when the East was at its absolute worst and the NBA was virtually unwatchable, in the modern NBA he is a terrible coach.

 

[sunsfan88]

As some have noted, I do not understand the Warren benching. IMO, he deserves to start and benching him can only hurt his confidence.

Yea not sure what kind of gratification it can be for a sophomore player when you get benched after averaging 20 & 5 in the last 4 games, all starts.

Right about his confidence too, he did not look very comfortable against the Lakers either.

I don't get it, if the Suns are just gonna sleep walk their way through games and suck then why not do that while playing all the young players that look promising the heavy minutes like Minnesota and Philly have been doing the last two years?

Tanking is not just about losing, it's about giving a ton of playing time experience to players like Warren and Booker as well.

Really hope we don't keep starting the likes of Leuer and Tucker over Warren.

 

[Chaplin]

Byron Scott has coached several teams into the finals. The Lakers problem isn't with him. The Suns' problem isn't Hornacek. It's that neither team has even an inkling of high caliber talent on the roster. There isn't one starter on either team that would likely start for any other team.

You're half right, we don't have any real high caliber talent. But you simply cannot absolve Hornacek. He is quite simply a terrible head coach. He can't motivate and he doesn't seem to be able to garner respect from his players. That is a recipe for disaster in the NBA and we're seeing it first-hand.

 

[leclerc]

Benching Warren? I'm done with Hornacek or whoever is in charge. Also trade Knight. He plays like a turd. They still play that #10 over Goodwin. What a sorry state this team is in.

Keep Booker, Warren, Len. Clean out everyone else.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Benching Warren? I'm done with Hornacek or whoever is in charge. Also trade Knight. He plays like a turd. They still play that #10 over Goodwin. What a sorry state this team is in.

Keep Booker, Warren, Len. Clean out everyone else.

So, you do like the way McD drafts.

 

[Catlover]

Benching Warren? I'm done with Hornacek or whoever is in charge. Also trade Knight. He plays like a turd. They still play that #10 over Goodwin. What a sorry state this team is in.

Keep Booker, Warren, Len. Clean out everyone else.

He wasn't benched. He'd moved into the starting lineup for a couple games because Leuer was injured. Leuer returned, PJ returned to small forward and Warren returned to his bench role. He still played 21 minutes despite going 0 for 3. I want him starting and playing 30+ minutes a game but that doesn't qualify as a "benching", at least not in my eyes.

 

[BC867]

He wasn't benched. He'd moved into the starting lineup for a couple games because Leuer was injured. Leuer returned, PJ returned to small forward and Warren returned to his bench role. He still played 21 minutes despite going 0 for 3. I want him starting and playing 30+ minutes a game but that doesn't qualify as a "benching", at least not in my eyes.

True! But, in the big picture, it doesn't qualify as a horrible team, on a losing streak, giving an opportunity to its young players to develop.

It has to happen sometime (if the Front Office has any common sense). Why not now?

As others have posted, it's not tanking. It's rebuilding. Something Sarver's Suns have not done successfully.

 

[Catlover]

True! But, in the big picture, it doesn't qualify as a horrible team, on a losing streak, giving an opportunity to its young players to develop.

It has to happen sometime (if the Front Office has any common sense). Why not now?

As others have posted, it's not tanking. It's rebuilding. Something Sarver's Suns have not done successfully.

He's already played a lot more minutes than he's used to and he'd just come off playing long minutes in 2 games. Jeff acknowledged that the 20 games in 34 days had everyone tired and the extra minutes he'd thrown the young guys way had worn them down. I don't have a problem with the 21 minutes as long as it isn't the standard going forward. He needs to play at least 25 minutes a night and eventually work his way up to starter minutes.

 

[sunsfan88]

True! But, in the big picture, it doesn't qualify as a horrible team, on a losing streak, giving an opportunity to its young players to develop.

It has to happen sometime (if the Front Office has any common sense). Why not now?

As others have posted, it's not tanking. It's rebuilding. Something Sarver's Suns have not done successfully.

Yea there really is no use in this season if these young kids at least don't get a ton of minutes. In my opinion, there really should be no way that a guy like Rodney Hood from Warren's draft class gets more minutes than Warren especially when Hood team's substantially better than Phoenix and iirc is actually a playoff team albeit its in the weak West. Suns have even less to play for so Warren should be getting even more minutes than Hood.

 

[Chaplin]

Yea there really is no use in this season if these young kids at least don't get a ton of minutes. In my opinion, there really should be no way that a guy like Rodney Hood from Warren's draft class gets more minutes than Warren especially when Hood team's substantially better than Phoenix and iirc is actually a playoff team albeit its in the weak West. Suns have even less to play for so Warren should be getting even more minutes than Hood.

Part of the reason is the strange fascination with playing PJ Tucker. The coaches seem to love him in the starting lineup for some reason.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree that developing the young players is the primary objective, but giving them a ton of minutes is not always the best way to do that. If you play them when they are worn out or slightly injured, you can reinforce bad habits.

The point is that there is more to it than just minutes. If Warren is averaging 25 minutes or more, I am good with that.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree that developing the young players is the primary objective, but giving them a ton of minutes is not always the best way to do that. If you play them when they are worn out or slightly injured, you can reinforce bad habits.

The point is that there is more to it than just minutes. If Warren is averaging 25 minutes or more, I am good with that.

That's why most people will be upset with Hornacek re: Booker all season long.

 

[Catlover]

I have no idea why Rodney Hood should be the standard. Anyway, I'll bet Warren has logged more minutes this season than probably 75% of his draft class. He's averaging almost 23 minutes per game, that's more than enough if you're just worried about player development. I want him to play even more than that because it means PJ is playing less (at SF), not because Warren can't develop in that time.

 

[leclerc]

So, you do like the way McD drafts.

I think he's an improvement over whoever was before him. Not convinced about Len. They're not going to him, maybe because of the hand injury, and bigs take longer to develop anyhow. Just look at RoLo. I'm pleased with Warren and Booker as mid first round picks.

 

[leclerc]

I think they played much better in the two games starting PJ and TJ as forwards. Leuer coming back should not change that.

I played basket ball growing up and I would consider loosing the starting position as being benched. Just my humble opinion.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I have no idea why Rodney Hood should be the standard. Anyway, I'll bet Warren has logged more minutes this season than probably 75% of his draft class. He's averaging almost 23 minutes per game, that's more than enough if you're just worried about player development. I want him to play even more than that because it means PJ is playing less (at SF), not because Warren can't develop in that time.

I would agree with this.