Suns Vs Lakers

[Chaz]

I thought the officiating was in the Suns' favor, but not dramatically so. The loose-ball foul that sent Jacobsen to the line (called on Odom, I think?) was probably the most critical bad call.

Wow I am slow. I just realized which call you were talking about. I believe it was called over the back on Walton.

At first I was thinking of the blocking foul on Odom that gave Casey a 3pt play late in the game.

I guess I skipped 'loose ball foul' and focused on Odom.

There were several that could have gone either way.

The loose ball foul on Nash comes to mind.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I thought the foul Odom TRIED to commit in the 4th was big. Marion stole the ball, Odom bear hugged him and the official didn't call it. Marion just trotted down for a dunk.

 

[D-Dogg]

Yah thats how Kobe puts it. I bet Shaqs book would be alot different. What do you think Kobe is gonna say "I cant play on the same team as the most dominant player of all time cause I am too big headed to not get all the credit and attention."

It's not Kobe's book, nor Kobe putting anything. It is the writer, Lazenby, who also wrote a book about Jordan, and wrote the Phil Jackson book, "Mind Games." All very good books.

Your hatred is myopic.

Again, ask Tex Winter who was selfish on that team. His number one answer will be a 7 foot, 300 pounder who likes to refer to himself as Superman. In Phil's recent book about the last season has a quote from Tex saying when Shaq retires, Tex will expose him as overrated.

But go ahead, lay it all at Kobe's feet. It will only make our next championship that much more sweet.

 

[D-Dogg]

Face the facts, the Lackers choked.

Yeah, I think I already said that when saying they let this game slip away.

 

[slinslin]

Is Tex Winters' god or something?

I see a pattern with what happened.

Shaq leaves Orlando - Penny levels off but still leads his team to a playoff appearance but it's the beginning of his demise

Eddie Jones leaves the Lakers - All downhill without Shaq except for maybe a year in Charlotte

Shaq leaves the Lakers - Kobe Bryant is exposed as no better than Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade...

Shaq joins Miami - Dwayne Wade immediately is one of the top 5 guards in the league

 

[D-Dogg]

Is Tex Winters' god or something?

In basketball terms, pretty damn close. He only invented an offense, and was the key to Phil's success.

He's been in basketball forever, and is a brilliant basketball mind. But you know that, and are just being obtuse.

 

[slinslin]

The keys to Phil's succes are Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal.

 

[Chaplin]

You're being way too simplistic, slin. As much as I hated the Lakers and Bulls, Tex Winter is a brilliant basketball mind, and as much as we hated the triangle (and saw that it couldn't work with the Suns), it worked and got Winters' teams 9 rings. I'll say that again: 9 rings

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I see a pattern with what happened.

The only pattern I see is your inability to judge NBA players objectively. Look, anyone who doesn't appreciate Kobe Bryant's talent is not only myopic, they're stupid. Disrespect Kobe all you want to for his uniform, arrogance, or rape accusation (like we all do) but don't carry that disrespect onto the court because you'll miss one of the best players of this generation. If you don't beleive me just ask any GM, scout, coach, or player and they'll tell you Kobe is easily one of the best, if not the best all-around players in the game.

 

[F-Dog]

Yeah, yeah, Kobe's a great talent. That's part of what makes him so much fun to root against.


It seems like the game couldn't have gone much better, after the first quarter or so, anyway. Amare took over when they needed him, and several Suns made plays in the clutch to put the game away. Hey, the Suns even got some calls!

I think the Suns really needed this win, as a confidence-booster. It's all very well to beat up on teams they hardly ever face, but facing down the neighborhood bully is tougher, because of the history that's been built up...

 

[Joe Mama]

They had 22 points in the paint in the 4th quarter...compared to our 42.

They remind me of the Suns circa Tom Gugliotta days.

Yeah, but the Phoenix Suns lived and died by the jump shot because they had no inside presence. The Lakers did well from outside last night because that's what the Phoenix Suns gave them. I actually love this philosophy. They are basically saying we will give you the outside shots because we don't think you can score enough from the outside to beat our offense. There are only a few teams in the NBA that will be able to do it.

The Suns, Q and Marion in particular, missed a lot of open shots in the first quarter when the Lakers did the same thing to them. It was working well against the Suns until they got a few stops and were able to push the ball up the court quickly. I plan on watching the game began at some point, but I cannot figure out why the Lakers went away from Lamar Odom in the low post. It really reminded me of games where Shaquille O'Neal would be abusing the other team, and they would inexplicably go away from him. I have just two words to explain this phenomenon... "Kobe Bryant".

I thought the officiating was in the Suns' favor, but not dramatically so. The loose-ball foul that sent Jacobsen to the line (called on Odom, I think?) was probably the most critical bad call.

That is how I felt. In most NBA games the officiating favors one side or the other. Sometimes it is incredibly one-sided. I didn't think last night's game was terribly lopsided, but as a Phoenix Suns fan I definitely would not complain about that officiating.

Off the top of my head I can remember several calls or no calls where I turned to my brother and said something like, "we got away with one there."

I know if I was a Lakers fans I would have been really bitching about that over the back foul on Odom. That was just a bad call. I also know that there was at least one charging called that Steve Nash drew that I couldn't believe they gave him.

That said, I was complaining in the chat room that in the first quarter the Lakers got away with a lot of contact when Amare Stoudemire took the ball into the middle. I also thought they played an obviously illegal defense on at least two thirds of the Suns possessions in that quarter. They had guys standing around in the lane who were not even making an attempt to "clear themselves".

The thing that really surprised me was that the referees did not send Kobe Bryant to the line more often. He had several drives to the basket that were challenged by the Suns where there was no call. Normally if it was close I would expect a call to go in his favor.

With the exception of last night's problems in Detroit I think the NBA has been much easier and more enjoyable to watch this year.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I actually love this philosophy. They are basically saying we will give you the outside shots because we don't think you can score enough from the outside to beat our offense. There are only a few teams in the NBA that will be able to do it.

This is the point I was trying to make in the thread about our defense. I am glad someone else likes the concept!

 

[sunsfn]

Dan Majerle made a point about fouls that Eddie Johnson and others have made in the past.
In the start of the game it appeared the fouls were going against the suns, then they started to go against the Lakers.
In the beginning the Lakers were the aggressor and starting in the 2nd quarter and later the suns were the aggressor.

They are saying that the aggressor will get the calls and that is what happens in the NBA.
Of course, other than being aggressive this is still a star league and some will get calls where others will not. I think Amare is becoming a star and is and will continue to get the calls in his favor. Also, he is so quick that the other teams are reaching a lot to defend him and that is a quick call for the refs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Didn't think they played poorly at all early on, there shots just weren't falling...what can you do?

Mike

it may just be me, but isn't MAKING shots part of playing well? i mean, if you played great defense, made great passes, ran your sets to perfection but missed every shot you would have played poorly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A question for someone who saw the whole game. How was the officiating? KB and Tomjanovic are already complaining, but Im looking at the box score and both teams shot 21 free throws. It didnt seem one sided.

Rudy T. declined to comment and then Kobe said the following when asked why Rudy T was upset

``I could take a wild guess and say it was the officiating,'' Bryant said. ``Just a shot in the dark.''

What a bunch of b....ches. They freaking choked after being up by 17 and they want to blame the officials???

i'll say this, the laker homer announcers cried like little ******* the whole game. so annoying. but i thought the calls were rather good. there were the typical superstar kobe calls, but they also didn't bail him out on a couple of occasions where he got blocked from behind on drives to the hoop. also, is it just me or did it seem like amare is starting to get those superstar calls too . . . i likey.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I thought the officiating was in the Suns' favor, but not dramatically so. The loose-ball foul that sent Jacobsen to the line (called on Odom, I think?) was probably the most critical bad call.

i think it was called on walton - over the back. and actually, if you caught it the first time, or the very beginning of the replays you can see that walton actually pins cj down with his arm on his shoulder as the go for the rb. good call actually.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BbaLL_31, as a Laker fan, I agree that this team needs a very good defensive PG and some sort of PF presence. We don't have either right now.

Buss and Kupchek have said they are going to look at this team after 20 games, and then make moves if needed. We've got a glut of SFs, and I see Rush, D George, Slava, Luke as being components to some deals.

Vlade is very underrated in your mind, I can tell. Look at the Kings struggling right now..a lot of that is missing Vlade's ability to pull defenses out, and his great passing skills. We also had no Mihm tonight. Together, Vlade and Mihm can hold down the C position, and can really open up the offense. This is an entirely new team, and they've played only 10 games together. Kobe is the only remaining starter, so this team is just learning each other's tendancy. I think (homering of course) they can be very dangerous.

I think we make the playoffs this year, but the future is in 2-3 years. Brian Grants contract will be an expiring one soon, and he will be dealt for either a max contract player or two good players. He's only marking time right now.

I don't see us going deep in the playoffs, but anything can happen. We can go second round, possibly, depending upon the matchup. I'm quite happy with the Lakers right now.

I think the Suns are a power on the rise as well, and I think we'll have some major battles in the future with you guys. You add a servicable center, and you will be dangerous.

I personally hate the Suns, but I love Amare. He is a monster and is just coming into his own. I also like Nash. I just dislike the organization. I hope we have more high-scoring, fast paced games like this one in the future.

Oh, and we're going to get you at Staples.

i'm curious why you "hate" the suns organization? personal?

 

[D-Dogg]

I grew up around a significant group of Phoenix Suns fans and years of arguing with them about the Lakers and watching the Suns really got to me. Plus, they beat the Lakers in the playoffs one year, and media was going off comparing KJ (good guy) to Magic and that offended me. I also hate Charles Barkley so that added a lot to it. I guess I don't hate the organization per se, because Colangelo is a good guy, but I think they make dumb moves quite often. I hate the franchise, would probably be a more correct term.

 

[simply_amare]

grew up around a significant group of Phoenix Suns fans and years of arguing with them about the Lakers and watching the Suns really got to me. Plus, they beat the Lakers in the playoffs one year, and media was going off comparing KJ (good guy) to Magic and that offended me. I also hate Charles Barkley so that added a lot to it. I guess I don't hate the organization per se, because Colangelo is a good guy, but I think they make dumb moves quite often. I hate the franchise, would probably be a more correct term.

Funny how things turn around. I use to be a big time laker fan and hated the Suns oh so much especially when they beat them on that playoff series. Eversince Barkley came to Phoenix and Magic retired, I got addicted with the Suns and started hating the lakers (ehem..shaq,phil).

 

[PhxGametime]

I agree with sunsfn - the Lakers early on were getting a lot of calls but it sort of went to Suns favor (Majerle a few times mentioned Suns not getting call, most were Amare calls - but that the agressive team gets those calls)... Kobe Bryant though on a few occasions fouls down low with hands, 1 time pushed Shawn Marion to stomach area and well once to JJ below belt when he shot a 3PTer and JJ was upset about it or at least shaken up...

I was upset with Stoudemire not getting the calls early and on other end the fouls they'd call (which very well could be fouls) but when 1 team doesn't get them it disturbs me...