Suns waive Williams

[Dr. Dumas]

Suns Waive Center Williams


Posted: Jan. 28, 2004
The Phoenix Suns released center Scott Williams today. The Suns roster now stands at 13.

“We are happy to accommodate Scott’s desire to be released in light of our current direction,” said Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo. “Scott has made great contributions to our organization and we look forward to continuing our relationship in the future.”

Williams, who originally signed as a free agent with Phoenix on July 19, 2002, appeared in 16 games, including 10 starts, this season and averaged 7.3 points, 4.5 rebounds and .525 shooting in 16.7 minutes. The 13-year NBA veteran spent 21 games (Oct. 28 – Nov. 15, Jan. 5 – Jan. 27) on the injured list due to left thumb surgery and back spasms.

The 35-year-old played in 69 games last season for the Suns, his most since 1994-95 when he played in 77 games with Philadelphia. In 85 games with Phoenix, Williams averaged 4.6 points and 3.1 rebounds in 13.4 minutes.

The 6-10, 260-pound center averaged 5.3 points, 4.9 rebounds and .470 shooting in 16.9 minutes in 700 career games with five different clubs (Chicago, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Denver and Phoenix).

 

[Chaplin]

Good luck to Scotty, but I want to go on record to say that we made a big mistake having Googs on the active roster instead of Scotty.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Good luck to Scotty, but I want to go on record to say that we made a big mistake having Googs on the active roster instead of Scotty.

Can you shed some light on this. I'm a little confused. Thxs-

 

[Wally]

Dallas is looking.... I'll bet Scott goes there - I wish him all the best and would be surprised if he's not back here as a assistant coach sometime in the future.

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/012804dnspomavsdate.6a270.html

Mavs seek experienced big man, eye Suns' Williams
10:35 AM CST on Wednesday, January 28, 2004
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
SEATTLE – The Mavericks are hoping to find a big man with some big-game experience – but not too much experience.
In other words, Scott Williams is a possibility. Charles Oakley is not.
The Mavericks are working the phone lines and keeping a close eye on the waiver wire in hopes of adding somebody who can patrol the paint. The key is getting somebody who has had more than a token taste of playoff basketball.
That would make the Phoenix Suns' 6-10, 245-pound Williams a possibility. The NBA grapevine has been ripe with speculation that the Suns were on the verge of waiving Williams. But they were holding out hope that somebody might offer something in return, whether it be a draft pick or player. Williams, in his 14th season, earns $1.07 million, the minimum for a player with 10 or more years of experience.
The Mavericks are in the market for a big man because they are concerned about the rest of the season and the playoffs if Shawn Bradley or Danny Fortson should get injured again.
Other names have been floated as possibilities, such as Memphis' Jake Tsakalidis, Indiana's Primoz Brezec. But of those, none has the experience Williams could bring. He won three championship rings in the early '90s with Chicago and has played in 91 playoff games. He turns 36 on March 21.
Mavericks president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson would not comment on the prospects of Williams, but he did rule out the 40-year-old Oakley, who has been looking for employment.
"That's too much experience," Nelson said.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Dr. Dumas
Can you shed some light on this. I'm a little confused. Thxs-

If playing time was such an issue, why keep Googs activated and not Scotty?

 

[Mainstreet]

In my opinion, Googs was kept active because he is likely to be traded because of the salary cap situation.

I'm uncertain if a player can be traded from the injured list. Also the Suns may want to show another team that Googs is healthy.

 

[elindholm]

I frankly think that all of the Gugliotta-to-Utah talk is utter nonsense. Why would Utah want to pay Gugliotta an enormous sum of money just to sit on the bench? Is there any reason to think that Utah would be a lot more enthusiastic about this than Phoenix is? I haven't come up with one.

Obviously some team might want Gugliotta if they could give up bad contracts in return, but the rumor is for Keon Clark, who is also up at the end of this season (assuming the team option is declined). So I see no possible incentive from Utah's perspective. The Suns would have to include a draft pick, which I don't think they'll do just to save money this year.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by elindholm
I frankly think that all of the Gugliotta-to-Utah talk is utter nonsense. Why would Utah want to pay Gugliotta an enormous sum of money just to sit on the bench? Is there any reason to think that Utah would be a lot more enthusiastic about this than Phoenix is? I haven't come up with one.

Obviously some team might want Gugliotta if they could give up bad contracts in return, but the rumor is for Keon Clark, who is also up at the end of this season (assuming the team option is declined). So I see no possible incentive from Utah's perspective. The Suns would have to include a draft pick, which I don't think they'll do just to save money this year.

We actually had this discussion in a previous thread. Sorry, but I don't remember which one. I'm not sure of the exact #'s, but if the Suns did a Googs and 3 million cash for Keon Clark deal at the deadline, Utah would actually profit around $500,000. That's because Googs salary at that time will only be around 4 million.

 

[elindholm]

if the Suns did a Googs and 3 million cash for Keon Clark deal at the deadline, Utah would actually profit around $500,000.

Ah, right, that sounds vaguely familiar. As I recall, however, the calculation was done before taking Gugliotta's trade kicker into effect. But still, you're right, that's one possible reason that Utah might be interested.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by newfan101
We actually had this discussion in a previous thread. Sorry, but I don't remember which one. I'm not sure of the exact #'s, but if the Suns did a Googs and 3 million cash for Keon Clark deal at the deadline, Utah would actually profit around $500,000. That's because Googs salary at that time will only be around 4 million.

This is all about luxury tax. It is my understanding that the luxury tax is calculated based on the salary structure on a particular date following the trading deadline. This means that even though the season is half over, the entire year's contract is charged to the team.

Let's imagine a player with a $10 million contract and his team is $10 million above the luxury tax line. This means if the player is left on the team's roster, there would be a luxury tax of $10 million. However, half way through the season the player has already received $5 million and there is only $5 million left on the contract. If the player is traded to a team that is $10 million below cap along with $5 million plus in cash (enough to pay the salary for the rest of the year), the original team gets to save $10 million in luxury tax.

The luxury tax will soon be going away, but assuming it is still in place for this season, this kind of deal makes financial sense.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien


The luxury tax will soon be going away, but assuming it is still in place for this season, this kind of deal makes financial sense.

Exactly. It's been threatened for 5 years, and has yet to rear its ugly face. What makes anyone think this year will be different?

 

[Mainstreet]

Just another quick comment abouts the Googs situation. Doesn't Utah have to pay a minimum payroll... I think they are below that minimum payroll which they have to meet before the end of the year.

The whole Googs thing then makes more sense... he would come off Utah's books at the end of the year if a trade is made and they get money and/or draft picks in return... and they meet their minimum payroll requirements.

 

[George O'Brien]

Another possibility is that the Jazz might be waiting to see if Dice is healthy enough to play. That would make th Keon Clark move make more sense since Dice has a bigger contract.

 

[Chaplin]

There are so many unanswered questions here that I find it unlikely Googs will go to Utah.

Why get rid of Clark in the first place? Him on the IL is just as effective as Googs on the active roster.

What is the minimum payroll? Say they are 4 million under it. Why trade for Googs when they have to pay an extra 12 million (8 over the minimum), when they can trade for some other schmo that makes something like 5 million? They meet the minimum payroll requirements AND only have to pay a new player 5 million instead of 12. If they get rid of Clark as well, they're that much more under the minimum.

I can only see 2 ways Utah would do this:

1) They are around 10 million under the minimum payroll limit

2) They actually think that Googs will help them (which I really have serious doubts about)

So my guess is that Utah has very little interest in Googs.

 

[Mainstreet]

George, this seems like an interesting perspective and would make some sense. I just don't know how the numbers work out.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Mainstreet
George, this seems like an interesting perspective and would make some sense. I just don't know how the numbers work out.

Currently Utah has a payroll of $30.579 with Clark at $5 million. Googs gets $11.7 million and Dice is at 13.5. The Suns payroll is at $59.3 million.

Googs for Clark cuts the Suns payroll from $59.3 million to $54.3 million, which is only about $1 million or so above the luxury tax line. The deal for Dice actually take the Suns below the luxury tax tax line.

The deal with Dice may cost the Suns less if the Jazz think he could be some help this season. The Googs for Clark deal is strictly financial, although he might get some minutes in Utah.

Clark has barely played this season. He had a bone spur in his ankle in October which was considered a season ending injury.

Two years ago he had a good year in Toronto: 11.3 ppg, 7.4 rpg, and 1.5 blocks in 27 minutes. His numbers dropped off with Sacramento, but were decent: 6.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.0 blocks per game in only 22.3 minutes. At 6'11" and 221 pounds, he is pretty light to play center, but may be worth looking at this summer if he appears to be recovered and can be had for a veteran minimum.

 

[sunsfn]

If the suns and utah do a deal it is strictly for salary considerations. utah is going with youth just like the suns, they do not want Googs to play for them even though he may play a few minutes if he goes there.

Where did the deal come up with McDyess?? that is the first I heard of McDyess going instead of Googs?

 

[Mainstreet]

I believe George came up with the Mcdyess angle. It is all speculation at this point. Trading Mcdyess to Utah would save the Suns even more than trading Googs.

It all comes down to money considerations and the possibility perhaps to look at a player that might fit on each other's roster.

I would like to look at Clark for his shot blocking ability.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Mainstreet
I believe George came up with the Mcdyess angle. It is all speculation at this point. Trading Mcdyess to Utah would save the Suns even more than trading Googs.

It all comes down to money considerations and the possibility perhaps to look at a player that might fit on each other's roster.

I would like to look at Clark for his shot blocking ability.

If Clark isn't going to play for the rest of the season, then his abilities are worthless to us.

 

[Wally]

The Jazz signed center Mikki Moore today and I would guess they will see what he can offer before making any other deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

Chaplin, I'm not debating the merits of such a trade for Clark but sometimes if a team can just get a player into camp that they might have interest in, they can get a closer look at him both as a person and his work ethic.

I have to admit, I'm not good with all the math involved in making a deal work... whether Keon would work in a McDyess trade.
Sometimes it's just fun to think about the different options.

I know I was interested in Keon as a player for the Suns before he was traded to Utah and got injured because of his shot blocking ability.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wally, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I still think that the Jazz are below the NBA's minimum payroll. I presume Mikki Moore would not make a significant financial impact on their payroll.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Mainstreet
Wally, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I still think that the Jazz are below the NBA's minimum payroll. I presume Mikki Moore would not make a significant financial impact on their payroll.

You're right about the money but since they just signed him, they will have a look & see before they make any more moves. It's probably a 10 day deal so they can still do somthing after that. It was reported that Utah wanted to wait until the trade deadline before any deal for Googs / McDyess(?). Would Googs help more than Moore? H..., I don't know, but I doubt it. Why make a deal for McDyess when it's doubtful he'll even get off the injury bench?

All they are trying to do is fill part of the hole that Harpring's injury has created. They'll see what Moore can do. If he doesn't work out, they'll see what else they can do to improve for this season's playoff run. I don't think either Dice or Googs is the answer to their problem.

 

[Chaplin]

Dice injured is still better than a healthy Googs.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Dice injured is still better than a healthy Googs.

That is cruel. True, but cruel.