Target JACKSON

AzStevenCal

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Early on I was of the same mind about Jackson... but then I watched him and saw that his rep as a defender is more hype than substance. He has the physical tools to be good but he doesn't have the mentality at present. One of his common lapses is to run back on D with no clue of where is man is on the floor. He makes some brilliant anticipation moves but he's just as likely to gamble and get burned - as one reviewer remarked, he's either two steps ahead or two steps behind. While he doesn't get hung up on screens, he doesn't work hard at cutting his man off when he's turning the corner off the screen - he'll took along behind him and hope for a block from behind. I don't know if he can deny or not but I haven't seen him working at it - an important skill in the NBA.

Not to add to his "legend" but I get the feeling that someone like Pop could turn him into a great defender. But he needs a lot of work and I'm not sure we have the staff to make that happen. On top of that though, his off the court problems may seem minor on the surface but they are very concerning IMO. Normally I can at least understand the motivation for crossing certain lines but his actions defy reasonable explanation.
 

JCSunsfan

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Not to add to his "legend" but I get the feeling that someone like Pop could turn him into a great defender. But he needs a lot of work and I'm not sure we have the staff to make that happen. On top of that though, his off the court problems may seem minor on the surface but they are very concerning IMO. Normally I can at least understand the motivation for crossing certain lines but his actions defy reasonable explanation.
Part of Pop's secret is that he chooses teachable players. Pop is not a magician that can teach every player. He looks for character traits others don't value as much.
 

AzStevenCal

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Part of Pop's secret is that he chooses teachable players. Pop is not a magician that can teach every player. He looks for character traits others don't value as much.

Probably true, I know he's talked about finding players that are "over themselves". But just identifying that person is a skill in itself.
 
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pokerface

pokerface

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I read this today and it's what I thought anyway that Jackson is like just a bigger version of Fox. I think they are similar players.
 

3rdside

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The smartest guy in the room in the house - eye roll emoticon - honestly is this a joke?


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Chris_Sanders

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Can you stop making everything personal? I am getting tired of reporting it.

By your logic we should all abandon sports message boards because the TV guys on Foxsports or whatever know everything and are always right.

You are living in fantasy land if you think that being a former player automatically qualifies you as an analyst over anyone else who spent enormous time watching and following the process.

Your report was rejected.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Lol ok you do that guy.

Listen tell your mom I said I'm sorry. Here's your lunch money.

Like I said I'm done talking to you im gonna walk away now.

Finito warned for going too far.
 

Sun Devil Mania

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Are you asking me if I could be wrong? If so, then yes, absolutely.

Steven ....... Just a couple of weeks ago, you were so high on Jackson. You were even suggesting trading some of our assets to move up in the draft to get him. Now, you seem to have lost faith. What happened?
By the way, I am not of the same mindset. I think he would be a perfect fit for the Suns!
 

AzStevenCal

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Steven ....... Just a couple of weeks ago, you were so high on Jackson. You were even suggesting trading some of our assets to move up in the draft to get him. Now, you seem to have lost faith. What happened?
By the way, I am not of the same mindset. I think he would be a perfect fit for the Suns!

Nah, you're either confusing me with someone else or there's been a misunderstanding about my position. I was outspoken against making that trade until I started hearing the apparent consensus around here that he was the next great two way player. I acknowledged that if, following our workouts, we decided he truly was a star in the making, that it would be worth giving up an extra pick if necessary.

If he's that player that many suggest he will be, a lock down defender that also has significant value offensively then, yes, he's perfect for us (rage issues notwithstanding). And giving up an extra pick to grab the next Kawhi or even the next Butler makes a lot of sense. But the more I watch of him the less enamored I am about his defense and his game overall.

I think his ceiling falls somewhere between solid bench player and average starter. IMO, if we do draft him at four, 3 years from now everyone will regret the pick and complain about how we drove away a much more complete player (Warren).

And welcome to the forum.
 

Chaplin

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Nah, you're either confusing me with someone else or there's been a misunderstanding about my position. I was outspoken against making that trade until I started hearing the apparent consensus around here that he was the next great two way player. I acknowledged that if, following our workouts, we decided he truly was a star in the making, that it would be worth giving up an extra pick if necessary.

If he's that player that many suggest he will be, a lock down defender that also has significant value offensively then, yes, he's perfect for us (rage issues notwithstanding). And giving up an extra pick to grab the next Kawhi or even the next Butler makes a lot of sense. But the more I watch of him the less enamored I am about his defense and his game overall.

I think his ceiling falls somewhere between solid bench player and average starter IMO, if we do draft him at four, 3 years from now everyone will regret the pick and complain about how we drove away a much more complete player (Warren).

And welcome to the forum.
Ok, now you're trolling. :)

Warren a "much more complete player"? Really? Warren does one thing well. And he probably has room to improve, which we will give him a chance to do, but don't make the mistake that Warren is some star in the making.
 

AzStevenCal

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Ok, now you're trolling. :)

Warren a "much more complete player"? Really? Warren does one thing well. And he probably has room to improve, which we will give him a chance to do, but don't make the mistake that Warren is some star in the making.

This post and your recent posts on this subject make it clear that you are in no way joking so I see no need for the Smiley Face.

And yes, I think Warren is now and will continue to be a far better player than Jackson. I think he's going to peak roughly around Otto Porter's current value, I don't know if you consider that a star or not.
 

AzStevenCal

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I love his character and charisma but I think when it comes to actual skills Dennis Smith is better than him at everything besides effort on defense.

The difference on defense is huge, don't undersell it but otherwise I agree. However, he's had one knee cleaned out and the other knee operated on for an ACL tear. Overlooking that in the top 10 seems highly shortsighted to me especially considering how important his athleticism is to his success. In this situation, there is no such thing as a clean bill of health from the medical staff. The concern isn't what's there now, it's what will almost surely be there in a few years.
 

JCSunsfan

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This post and your recent posts on this subject make it clear that you are in no way joking so I see no need for the Smiley Face.

And yes, I think Warren is now and will continue to be a far better player than Jackson. I think he's going to peak roughly around Otto Porter's current value, I don't know if you consider that a star or not.

This is kind of funny. When I look at Tatum, I think Otto Porter. This is certainly an interesting draft to talk about.
 

Chaplin

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This post and your recent posts on this subject make it clear that you are in no way joking so I see no need for the Smiley Face.

And yes, I think Warren is now and will continue to be a far better player than Jackson. I think he's going to peak roughly around Otto Porter's current value, I don't know if you consider that a star or not.
You actually think I would seriously call you a troll? That hurts. I guess you could always join the dozens of other people and put me on ignore... ;)
 

AzStevenCal

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You actually think I would seriously call you a troll? That hurts. I guess you could always join the dozens of other people and put me on ignore... ;)

No, I think we've communicated long enough to no longer need to put up a "don't get mad" symbol. I'm okay with you not liking my opinion and I'm not so thin-skinned as to go postal just because you REALLY disagree with me.
 

AzStevenCal

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Warren feels a little overrated on this board. I'm not saying I don't like him...i do think he is up-grade-able (is that a word?).

Really? I thought quite the opposite. It seems to me that most posters here believe he's average at best and not likely to ever get above that. I'm of the opinion that I'm very much in the minority on him, that being, he's already a plus player and likely to continue to improve.

If you take out that stretch (12-16 to the all star break) last season where he was apparently hampered by his "head injury", statistically, he was our best player the rest of the season. That's not to say he had the best season overall, that was Bledsoe. But if you only consider the start of the season (11 games) and the close of the season (22 games), he outplayed every other Sun.
 
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pokerface

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Warren a "much more complete player"? Really? Warren does one thing well. And he probably has room to improve, which we will give him a chance to do, but don't make the mistake that Warren is some star in the making.

I agree. Warren is a good shooter/scorer and that's it for right now. That alone makes him 'pretty much' starter material but even thinking eventual allstar is way getting ahead of ourselves.

Jackson brings a completely different set of skills to the table. He's almost the "anti Warren". I think Jackson is a better overall player but he has his shortcomings to work on too. I think Jackson has a bigger upside than Warren though.
 

SirStefan32

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What I like about Warren is just how efficient he is. He doesn't take bad shots. He know what his game is, and he sticks to it.
He is such a smart player and such a natural scorer! I am a huge Warren fan.
 
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