Telfair on Suns dysfunction.

[Neo]

I saw this one on Hoopshype this morning:

Well, Sebastian Telfair, acquired before Thursday’s trade deadline, is happy to be a Raptor. He has already seen dysfunction this season. “This is my ninth year in the league so I definitely don’t want to go through anything like we were going through in Phoenix,” Telfair, who will suit up for his first game as a Raptor on Monday against Washington, said. “You’ve got a goal to win and if you’re not winning you at least want to be out there competing at the highest level. We weren’t doing that over there in Phoenix this year. I’m happy to be a part of a team that got a goal for themselves and night in and night out they’ve got something to achieve.” National Post

Read more at http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#gWPALXjgf0MEjZ8v.99

If it wasn't official before, I think this pretty much establishes the Suns are in full on tank mode.​

 

[taz02]

If it wasn't official before, I think this pretty much establishes the Suns are in full on tank mode.

We can only hope that this train wreck is by design and part of a bigger plan.

 

[JS22]

If it wasn't official before, I think this pretty much establishes the Suns are in full on tank mode.

We can only hope that this train wreck is by design and part of a bigger plan.

That's the scary thing. I don't think it is by design. Babby / Blanks have clearly stated, multiple times, that their goal was to make the playoffs. Putting a mountain of pressure on Beasley and making him your #1 option should be grounds to get anyone fired.

 

[Chaz]

Who is tanking exactly?

Players? Coaches? Management?

Isn't the fact that they weren't competing probably the reason the coach was fired?


If they were tanking on purpose that would be OK but since they had hopes of competing they (management) should be fired?

All Telfair seemed to say there is that they weren't competing at the highest level. Wasn't that already obvious?

 

[Neo]

It certainly does not have the look of an intentional tanking like the Cavs did the year Lebron was coming eligible or when David Robinson sat out the year (I only partially beleive he was exaggerating the back problems.) the year Timmy was drafted.

I just can't see anyone's master plan for success to be creating a disfunctional and miserable atmosphere in order to get Ben McLemore or Nerlens Noel. There are no "can't miss superstars" in this year's draft.

I just hope they strike gold by dumb luck and end up with some players who can save this sinking ship.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They are tanking, plain and simple, and Telfair did not like it. I cannot imagine a player that would. I am sure Gentry did not like it either. You look at the Suns ability to play well against good teams (wins against the Lakers and Memphis) and then play poorly consistently. This team is better than its record. But they are tanking.

Some think its good strategy, some think its unethical. But it is what it is.

 

[Phrazbit]

They are tanking, plain and simple, and Telfair did not like it. I cannot imagine a player that would. I am sure Gentry did not like it either. You look at the Suns ability to play well against good teams (wins against the Lakers and Memphis) and then play poorly consistently. This team is better than its record. But they are tanking.

Some think its good strategy, some think its unethical. But it is what it is.

They certainly were not tanking until after Gentry was fired. Telfair's anger likely stems from the fact that he was playing well but got benched (to the extent of never getting out of his warmups) for a struggling rookie. And he has a right to be mad.

And I still dont think tanking is the right word. I just think they (being most of the players) have quit, a tanking team does not beat Portland on the road, a tanking team does not keep Jermaine O'Neal on the roster or Scola in the rotation. We're just a crappy team that if they fall behind early they mail it in.

We are every bit as awful as our record.

 

[SirStefan32]

They are not tanking, they are just not very good.

 

[Chaplin]

They are not tanking, they are just not very good.

This.

What incentive do players have to intentionally play badly? They play well, they get paid OR they get enough attention that other teams would want them and they can get out of the situation they are in.

 

[Superbone]

They are not tanking, they are just not very good.

Bingo!

 

[slinslin]

Indeed they are not tanking, Telfair just feels like it because he lost his job due to politics developing younger players which they should.

Still they are trying to win the games they play.

 

[leclerc]

We're not very good but we should play with a higher intensity. The roster is full of equally talented players, so the playing time and rotation is not very clear. Switching to developing Marshall and partially Johnson (I hope they keep it up) + the Morrisi (Steve Albert should just say "good shot by Morris", loose the first name/wrong brother and seem smarter) is good for next year + chances are we get a higher pick. Good thing Dragic has stepped it up after the all star break. He should average 22 and 10 on this team. And I hope Beasley gets back into beast mode soon.

 

[AfroSuns]

I think the management's goal is to tank, of course they are not going to come out and say it but its gotta be the reason Hunter is HC. The players would not want to tank but combine an inept coach instructed to develop young players and play the bench more; what do you expect.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They certainly were not tanking until after Gentry was fired. Telfair's anger likely stems from the fact that he was playing well but got benched (to the extent of never getting out of his warmups) for a struggling rookie. And he has a right to be mad.

And I still dont think tanking is the right word. I just think they (being most of the players) have quit, a tanking team does not beat Portland on the road, a tanking team does not keep Jermaine O'Neal on the roster or Scola in the rotation. We're just a crappy team that if they fall behind early they mail it in.

We are every bit as awful as our record.

They are playing younger players who are not as good in place of those who had been getting minutes. I cannot think of a better way to tank. I don't blame Telfair for being upset. He deserved playing time. Thats why the Suns dealt him. As for the other players, its hard to stay committed and focused on this level when you know your best players are not on the court.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it both/and. They are tanking AND they are not very good. Though they are probably some better than their record right now. Not a lot better--maybe 5 or 6 games better.

 

[Phrazbit]

And I hope Beasley gets back into beast mode soon.

Have no fears, I'm sure in a couple years he will be dominant in China.

I think it both/and. They are tanking AND they are not very good. Though they are probably some better than their record right now. Not a lot better--maybe 5 or 6 games better.

Maybe, but I just dont see it. When the Suns have won it has taken a lot of hustle and scrapping for them to eek out wins. We simply dont have the talent to win without out working our opponents. Take a look at the rosters in the conference, even among the fellow bottom dwellers. The Suns are talent deficient in a big way, especially on the wings.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think it both/and. They are tanking AND they are not very good. Though they are probably some better than their record right now. Not a lot better--maybe 5 or 6 games better.

You keep saying that, but there is no evidence to support your claim that they are tanking. By definition, tanking is intentional, and there is zero evidence of the Suns losing games intentionally. You can say that they are tanking, and you can repeat it hundreds of times, but that does not make it true. You repeating it hundreds of times is not actual evidence of tanking actually taking place.

 

[SweetD]

You keep saying that, but there is no evidence to support your claim that they are tanking. By definition, tanking is intentional, and there is zero evidence of the Suns losing games intentionally. You can say that they are tanking, and you can repeat it hundreds of times, but that does not make it true. You repeating it hundreds of times is not actual evidence of tanking actually taking place.

I would say not playing Brown and Telfair was not tanking, but playing the odds to not win.

 

[HooverDam]

You keep saying that, but there is no evidence to support your claim that they are tanking. By definition, tanking is intentional, and there is zero evidence of the Suns losing games intentionally. You can say that they are tanking, and you can repeat it hundreds of times, but that does not make it true. You repeating it hundreds of times is not actual evidence of tanking actually taking place.

It depends on who you define "The Suns" as. Does that mean the players? If so, then sure, most of them aren't tanking, i.e. they're trying to win. But, are they trying their absolute 100% effort at all times to try to win? I don't think anyone would say that.

Is "the Suns" defined as Lindsay Hunter, Lon Babby, Lance Blanks, Robert Sarver, etc? I think they're more clearly tanking at this point. While their low Basketball IQ may have made them trick themselves into thinking this roster was a playoff contender before the season, they now know thats not the case and are playing the younger guys.

You don't move Bassy and play Marshall more if you're doing everything you can to win the games this season. You don't play Wes Johnson over Shannon Brown because you want to win right now.

So yes, they are to some degree tanking it. And...thats fine.

 

[Chaplin]

I would say not playing Brown and Telfair was not tanking, but playing the odds to not win.

So playing Brown means we have better odds to win and not playing him means we will most likely lose? Are you sure about that?

 

[AzStevenCal]

So playing Brown means we have better odds to win and not playing him means we will most likely lose? Are you sure about that?

I think playing Brown gives us a better chance to win but it's marginal at best.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

You keep saying that, but there is no evidence to support your claim that they are tanking. By definition, tanking is intentional, and there is zero evidence of the Suns losing games intentionally. You can say that they are tanking, and you can repeat it hundreds of times, but that does not make it true. You repeating it hundreds of times is not actual evidence of tanking actually taking place.

I am not sure how else you can explain the trade of Telfair, key minutes for Kendall Marshall, Marcus Morris on the floor at crunch time, extended minutes for Wesley Johnson, Shannon Brown buried getting a DNP in a low scoring game like last night (no, Im not a fan of Brown either, but when you can use some instant offense, it seems logical to use him), the fiiring of Alvin Gentry.

Oh, and Telfair's complaint that the Suns were not trying to compete at the highest level.


To me, that's evidence, but maybe its just me.

 

[Chaplin]

I am not sure how else you can explain the trade of Telfair, key minutes for Kendall Marshall, Marcus Morris on the floor at crunch time, extended minutes for Wesley Johnson, Shannon Brown buried getting a DNP in a low scoring game like last night (no, Im not a fan of Brown either, but when you can use some instant offense, it seems logical to use him), the fiiring of Alvin Gentry.


To me, that's evidence, but maybe its just me.

It is just you. There is a difference between playing/evaluating young guys on a bad team and intentionally trying to lose.

Can you imagine the conversations between the coach and players? No professional basketball player will ever try to lose. And I think it's hilarious how Shannon Brown being benched is a sign of tanking. The guy is a black hole and doesn't make us win any more than playing Wes Johnson extended minutes. But at least Wes is young and still has a chance to be retained. Brown is as good as gone.

I'm sure everyone is resigned to a really bad season, but all your evidence above can be attributed to us just being simply a bad team. Coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories about intentionally losing in a year without a slam dunk 1st pick are just that: ridiculous.

Oh, and Telfair's complaint that the Suns were not trying to compete at the highest level.

Sure, and Telfair isn't bitter at all.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is just you. There is a difference between playing/evaluating young guys on a bad team and intentionally trying to lose.

Sure, and Telfair isn't bitter at all.

Really? You see a difference there? All a bad team (even most good ones) has to do to lose in the NBA is to let off the accellerator, they don't have to tap the brakes.

I guess we have different definitions of tanking. To me, tanking is when winning is no longer the priority. The players are still trying to win, of course. Their jobs are on the line. I do not see evidence of winning being a priority for the coaching staff or management. Good grief, even Gentry said that a week or so before he was fired.

When you treat the regular season like preseason, well, to me, thats tanking.

 

[leclerc]

Have to agree with you here, JCSunsfan. They're going nowhere this year so might as well evaluate players and get a higher pick at the same time. That's a-tanking.

When you're sitting Shannon Brown and playing Wesley Johnson, that's a tanking.

When you're dealing Bassy Telfair and you're signing another brother, that's a tanking.