The 2017-2018 Around the NBA thread

[Russ Smith]

Hield is shooting .257 on threes this year... of course, playing for Kings can result in depression...

He strikes me as a guy who was a very good college shooter but the longer NBA line bothers him. In college he could shoot from beyond the NBA line because nobody guards you that far. in the NBA they do. It's not just the distance that bothers him it's that he's guarded deeper in the NBA than in college. He's improved but he's not yet a knockdown shooter like it looked like he would be.

 

[Hoop Head]

Hield shot better in New Orleans than Sacramento because in New Orleans he was just a shooter but they're asking him to be much more than that in Sacramento. They want him to be like a Booker-clone and last year when they acquired him they had no other talent. This year they have more talent but it's an odd collection of talent with most being over the hill so he's focused on much more than he would be if he was still in New Orleans developing slowly.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I still can't believe (but totally believe) Lonzo has had ONE great game and it had to be against the Suns.

 

[Superbone]

I still can't believe (but totally believe) Lonzo has had ONE great game and it had to be against the Suns.

Just find comfort in the fact that it was against the Watson/Bledsoe Suns back in the laughingstock days.

 

[GatorAZ]

it's telling that going 3-15 with 7 assists is a significant improvement from your prior game.

it's a learning process. There were probably 4 drives last night where in college Lonzo is shooting FT's from the contact but in the NBA they don't reward you with calls for jumping into a defender that goes straight up. You could hear Walton encouraging Lonzo to keep attacking, next he has to learn how to do so and finish, without expecting the refs to bail him out with a foul call. Getting stronger will help there too he'll be able to take that contact and make the shot.

Another terrific game from Kuzma, there's a lot to be said for being 22(and a half) and having played 3 years of college ball to prepare you for the NBA. If the draft were tomorrow Kuzma would be a top 10 pick.

I should add I think they should still start Lonzo, the Lakers are not a now team they're a future team and it makes sense to play the young guys and see what they have. What's fascinating to me is Randle, Ingram and Ball were all such high picks but so far Kuzma is better than any of them. The more I watch Ingram the less impressed I am, he just seems to have zero interest in doing anything but scoring, he doesn't rebound at all for a guy with his length.

The TNT guys were talking about it after the Blazers game. He can't make a shot going right because of his slingshot form. Teams are not letting him go left. It might be ugly for a year or two but they need to rebuild his shot before it's too late or else he'll be Ricky Rubio.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I still can't believe (but totally believe) Lonzo has had ONE great game and it had to be against the Suns.

When you watch the game, its clear. He was totally unguarded the entire game. Its amazing the score was that close.

 

[elindholm]

The TNT guys were talking about it after the Blazers game. He can't make a shot going right because of his slingshot form. Teams are not letting him go left. It might be ugly for a year or two but they need to rebuild his shot before it's too late or else he'll be Ricky Rubio.

I've been saying all along that Ball's shooting style would doom him. Kidd and Rubio were poor shooters, but at least they didn't have a mechanic that was so poor as to be unworkable. Ball has the additional difficulty that he's utterly lacking in humility, so he's unlikely to be able to accept how broken his shot is and how much work he'll have to put in to fix it.

 

[GatorAZ]

I've been saying all along that Ball's shooting style would doom him. Kidd and Rubio were poor shooters, but at least they didn't have a mechanic that was so poor as to be unworkable. Ball has the additional difficulty that he's utterly lacking in humility, so he's unlikely to be able to accept how broken his shot is and how much work he'll have to put in to fix it.

The fact that he never changed it is on Lavar. Just plain arrogance.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hield shot better in New Orleans than Sacramento because in New Orleans he was just a shooter but they're asking him to be much more than that in Sacramento. They want him to be like a Booker-clone and last year when they acquired him they had no other talent. This year they have more talent but it's an odd collection of talent with most being over the hill so he's focused on much more than he would be if he was still in New Orleans developing slowly.

Yeah both Hill and Fox are more score first PG's, they get assists but they're not the guy that gets you the ball where you want it when you want it. Fox might be someday, but right now he's a guy who gets the majority of his assist by beating his man, drawing help and then passing.

he's really good, IMO he's the best of the rookie PG's so far, Smith Jr to me is a ball stopper, but if you're a guy like Hield who wants the ball in your shooting pocket it's tougher with those Pg's. Also Sac's bigs are not good passers, Cauley Stein in particular, really athletic, very little feel on offense, one of those guys you double not because you fear him scoring but to try and turn him over.

 

[Russ Smith]

The TNT guys were talking about it after the Blazers game. He can't make a shot going right because of his slingshot form. Teams are not letting him go left. It might be ugly for a year or two but they need to rebuild his shot before it's too late or else he'll be Ricky Rubio.

I brought this up on UCLA boards before, UCLA actually did change his shot when he first arrived, then they went to Australia for exhibitions, he struggled with the shot, and as soon as they got home Lavar announced they were going back. If you're Alford there's not much you can do, it's not fair the kid is going to be at UCLA 8 months, if he's not 100% sold on fixing his shot, you can't really blame him, so Alford sort of said ok and let him go back.

I bet Lonzo wishes now he'd given it more time, but when you're 19 and that good and your entire life and career to date has been controlled by your dad, you're going to listen to him even if you're coached by a great shooter like Steve Alford was.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I've been saying all along that Ball's shooting style would doom him. Kidd and Rubio were poor shooters, but at least they didn't have a mechanic that was so poor as to be unworkable. Ball has the additional difficulty that he's utterly lacking in humility, so he's unlikely to be able to accept how broken his shot is and how much work he'll have to put in to fix it.

His shot does not have to doom him. He just cannot be a scoring pg. He has to make threes when he is open. There is no reason why he should not be able to drive to the hoop or dish the ball or play D. He just does not seem to be very good at those things either.

 

[elindholm]

His shot does not have to doom him. He just cannot be a scoring pg. He has to make threes when he is open. There is no reason why he should not be able to drive to the hoop or dish the ball or play D. He just does not seem to be very good at those things either.

When has an NBA guard with a shot this bad -- I'm talking mechanics, not make percentage -- ever made an All-Star team? Even among forwards, you'd have to go back to Shawn Marion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The TNT guys were talking about it after the Blazers game. He can't make a shot going right because of his slingshot form. Teams are not letting him go left. It might be ugly for a year or two but they need to rebuild his shot before it's too late or else he'll be Ricky Rubio.

Even with a terrible shot, I think as he bulks up, I think he'll still be able to be more Kidd than Rubio because of his ability to rebound and make plays. Also, with more weapons around him, if teams have to double and leave him open for 3, if he's got space, he can hit. Rubio never had that shot guarded or unguarded.

But if he's going to be the super super star I thought he'd be, he'll have to correct that shot.

 

[JCSunsfan]

When has an NBA guard with a shot this bad -- I'm talking mechanics, not make percentage -- ever made an All-Star team? Even among forwards, you'd have to go back to Shawn Marion.

Yes. You would probably have to go back that far. Nonetheless, what I said is still true.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When has an NBA guard with a shot this bad -- I'm talking mechanics, not make percentage -- ever made an All-Star team? Even among forwards, you'd have to go back to Shawn Marion.

Who was that kid on the Kings year back... Kelvin Martin? His shot was super funky but he was a really good shooter and 20-22 ppg shooting guard.

Other than him though, I can't think of any others so he might be the exception to the rule.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who was that kid on the Kings year back... Kelvin Martin? His shot was super funky but he was a really good shooter and 20-22 ppg shooting guard.

Other than him though, I can't think of any others so he might be the exception to the rule.

Reggie Miller had a really ugly shot, but high release and amazingly consistent form, which was the key to his success.

 

[elindholm]

Who was that kid on the Kings year back... Kelvin Martin? His shot was super funky but he was a really good shooter and 20-22 ppg shooting guard.

Other than him though, I can't think of any others so he might be the exception to the rule.

I'd forgotten about Kevin Martin. Just watched some video. It's bad, but I don't think it's quite at the level of Ball-bad. Pretty bad, though.

Reggie Miller had a really ugly shot, but high release and amazingly consistent form, which was the key to his success.

He had the ball kind of out in front of him, and he had a weird way of pushing his hands together through the release, but it's not particularly bad. The first time I watched video of Ball shooting, I literally said "Oh my god!" in horror.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd forgotten about Kevin Martin. Just watched some video. It's bad, but I don't think it's quite at the level of Ball-bad. Pretty bad, though.



He had the ball kind of out in front of him, and he had a weird way of pushing his hands together through the release, but it's not particularly bad. The first time I watched video of Ball shooting, I literally said "Oh my god!" in horror.

It is bad. MKG has a pretty bad release too.

 

[Ronin]

The Sixers want a first round pick for Jahil Okafor. Celtics seem unwilling to part with a first round pick to get Okafor

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[Russ Smith]

Who was that kid on the Kings year back... Kelvin Martin? His shot was super funky but he was a really good shooter and 20-22 ppg shooting guard.

Other than him though, I can't think of any others so he might be the exception to the rule.

Kevin Martin and yes the shot was similar but not quite as far going over to the left as what Lonzo does.

I'm sure he'll change it, the actual release on his shot is fine, the rotation is good, but the overall release is slow. He does that little squat before he rises up to shoot and coupled with the going left thing that is allowing longer NBA defenders to close out on his shot and bother him. The final release is ok it's the getting to that point that is the problem. The other thing I pointed out repeatedly at UCLA, he shoots much better from straight on than the corners. It has nothing to do with distance, he was hitting 28 footers at UCLA, he just likes to shoot straight on. He needs to improve from the wings and corners now.

 

[Russ Smith]

Reggie Miller had a really ugly shot, but high release and amazingly consistent form, which was the key to his success.

I actually think Reggie's shot is really pretty, it was just unusual but as you said he was consistent with it.

Klay Thompson is probably the textbook for shooting but what's funny is Steph is a better shooter and when he came into the league people were saying he had too much arm movement on his shot, should be just the wrist. It comes down to some guys are just able to shoot, Steph's ability to hit contested 3's off balance is amazing he just somehow makes them

 

[Hoop Head]

The Sixers want a first round pick for Jahil Okafor. Celtics seem unwilling to part with a first round pick to get Okafor

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They shouldn't have declined his option then. I'd be surprised if they got 2 second round picks for him since he's nothing but a rental. They should have been able to move him last year or during the offseason for a 1st but who knows why they didn't push harder.

I still can't believe the 76'ers were dumb enough to decline that option. Worst case, they pay him another year on the rookie scale if they can't trade him and then don't extend a qualifying offer. Now he's walking at years end and will get paid by someone, not huge money but I'd guess around the MLE or a little more and Philly looks really bad asking for a 1st and seeing him walk a season earlier than he could have while they have nothing to show for it. It's the great Bryan Colangelo running that team also which helps highlight the Colangelo's aren't perfect, like some here like to recall.

 

[SirStefan32]

I was thinking the same thing- they have no leverage. Instead of giving up a first-round pick, teams can just sign him outright next summer.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They shouldn't have declined his option then. I'd be surprised if they got 2 second round picks for him since he's nothing but a rental. They should have been able to move him last year or during the offseason for a 1st but who knows why they didn't push harder.

I still can't believe the 76'ers were dumb enough to decline that option. Worst case, they pay him another year on the rookie scale if they can't trade him and then don't extend a qualifying offer. Now he's walking at years end and will get paid by someone, not huge money but I'd guess around the MLE or a little more and Philly looks really bad asking for a 1st and seeing him walk a season earlier than he could have while they have nothing to show for it. It's the great Bryan Colangelo running that team also which helps highlight the Colangelo's aren't perfect, like some here like to recall.

That cannot be right. They cannot be asking for a first round pick. Maybe that was before they declined his option. If they are, they are delusional and I don’t think Bryan Colangelo is delusional.

 

[Hoop Head]

That cannot be right. They cannot be asking for a first round pick. Maybe that was before they declined his option. If they are, they are delusional and I don’t think Bryan Colangelo is delusional.

It doesn't sound right but I'm just basing it on the previous post that mentioned that's their asking price. Surely they'd settle for less and are trying to set the price high but I'd be surprised if he wasn't bought out well before the All-Star break if they can't get a deal done.