The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

I guess it depends on how confident Deandre is in himself.

An improving player would want the player options and a four year deal.

No

Every player would want the most guaranteed money possible. He’s so young he’s going to get that next contract anyway if he continues to improve.

 

[Covert Rain]

What’s your solution? I see both Payne and Paul being on the roster next year. Who’s this great back up point guard your going to get? What are you giving up for him and how much do you realistically give up for a back up PG? We don’t have money go sign anyone.

On top of that if you are going after a back up PG your saying Paul is still your starter. If Paul is your starter do you realistically see him holding up and making it through a long post season run?

Yeah Payne was horrible so was this entire team once they locked up the 1 seed, but Payne’s best stretch came when he did start and when he has started the last two season he’s actually played really well.

One solution definitely isn't putting a guy who doesn't deserve to be the backup in the starting role. The definition of sanity is doing the same thing. Payne sucks. He isn't starting material and is questionable backup at best. Pretending he is a starter doesn't make him one. The Suns have some moves to make if they are not going to give Holiday or someone else a shot at taking that spot. Payne never returned to form halfway through March.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Remember when we all were comparing this team to a Spurs-esque machine?

Good times.

WTF HAPPENED?!??

 

[Finito]

How I would rank the centerpieces in some of the reported interested teams:

Toronto: OG - 24 years old on a great contract

Indy: Turner + Brogdon - not much of a downgrade if they stay healthy

Orlando: Isaac/WCJ + Anthony - some young talent under control

OKC: Dort + JRE (not sure if any trade with OKC works financially)

Detroit: Grant - good player but a FA after next year

Spurs - only if Keldon Johnson is included would I want Poeltl

Hornets: They’ve been brought up but nothing makes sense as trade partners

The team that really intrigues me is OKC. There in a position where they have two really good young PG. they hit on SGA and Giddy. Lou Dort is a guy I’d love on this team.

I don’t know about the money but I’d love Giddy, Dort and two picks back. Hell I have no idea how many 1st rounders they have but I think it’s 10+ over the next few years.

OG? Eh. He’s another wing. We got wings

Turner/Brogdon? Those two guys are never healthy I just can’t bet on that.

 

[Finito]

One solution definitely isn't putting a guy who doesn't deserve to be the backup in the starting role. The definition of sanity is doing the same thing. Payne sucks. He isn't starting material and is questionable backup at best. Pretending he is a starter doesn't make him one. The Suns have some moves to make if they are not going to give Holiday or someone else a shot at taking that spot. Payne never returned to form halfway through March.

Got it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Got it.

Good....cuz Payne sucks.

 

[Covert Rain]

Remember when we all were comparing this team to a Spurs-esque machine?

Good times.

WTF HAPPENED?!??

The very definition of the wheels fell off..........UGH!

 

[Finito]

Remember when we all were comparing this team to a Spurs-esque machine?

Good times.

WTF HAPPENED?!??

Pop is the ultimate captain of the ship. Nobody has a stronger culture

The inmates here were running the asylum I have a feeling

 

[Covert Rain]

The more and more time goes by the more convinced I am there was some serious locker room issues.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't regard Hollinger as having much credibility anymore. He peaked about ten years ago.

I hope you’re right

 

[GatorAZ]

The team that really intrigues me is OKC. There in a position where they have two really good young PG. they hit on SGA and Giddy. Lou Dort is a guy I’d love on this team.

I don’t know about the money but I’d love Giddy, Dort and two picks back. Hell I have no idea how many 1st rounders they have but I think it’s 10+ over the next few years.

OG? Eh. He’s another wing. We got wings

Turner/Brogdon? Those two guys are never healthy I just can’t bet on that.

I would like Dort and a future pick. I would love a Collins/Okongwu return but there’s no way Atlanta is doing it unless a third team takes Capela’s contract which I doubt.

 

[Big Al]

Irving, Harden and Durant was a terrible mix of players with at least a couple with their own agenda. And now the Nets have added Ben Simmons.

Durant is a team player. I think he would do quite nicely on the Suns not to mention the skills he brings to the table.

I like Durant's skills but not his age for what we would have to give up to get him. But again if your trying to win while that window is open.....

 

[AzStevenCal]

I like Durant's skills but not his age for what we would have to give up to get him. But again if your trying to win while that window is open.....

I guess I'm just not willing to say our window is open until we learn exactly what caused our collapse in the postseason. Unless it's a one time problem or something reasonably fixable, I just don't see us as real contenders.

So, if Durant solves the problem or if we can fix the problem without wholesale changes, adding Kevin would probably make us prohibitive favorites if all it cost us was DA. If that's the case, I'm all for it. But if not, I'd pass. Not that I think there's any real chance of it happening anyway.

 

[Western Font]

My pure conjecture is that Monty is good cop and CP is bad cop, and it really worked for a while until some started to disrespect the former and detest the latter. Doesn’t mean it can’t be improved though.

But my other worry is that this was the window per ownership, and that a planned scenario was for CP’s contract to be stretched and Ayton’s to be offloaded rather than maxed. Sure would look different has the Suns beaten the Bucks or not fallen apart against Dallas.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Keep the young asset. Period.

Jae, Dario, Torrey, Payne, and three 1st rounders are all available IMO.

We have enough expiring's to make things happen. I think the only true prediction I can make is that Jae is probably gone. Jae & Dario maybe packaged together.

Go listen to that podcast I posted a few pages back. It makes total sense.

 

[Mainstreet]

No

Every player would want the most guaranteed money possible. He’s so young he’s going to get that next contract anyway if he continues to improve.

I was talking about a 5 year contract but it appears that was never on the table at least for the amount Ayton's camp wanted.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was talking about a 5 year contract but it appears that was never on the table at least for the amount Ayton's camp wanted.

Ayton's camp wanted the Designated Rookie Scale Extension which I believe automatically means it goes to 25% of the cap (or higher if the player is eligible for a higher rate which DA wasn't).

The sticking point for us was that it would max us out on that particular option meaning we couldn't be in the market anytime soon for a high value player on a rookie contract. We could still give DA the 25% of cap but wanted to keep it to 4 years so it wouldn't qualify as a DRSE.

 

[Covert Rain]

Another story on Suns moving on from Ayton. He is citing Hollinger but the word seems to be spreading.

Report: Suns likely to move on from key starter

The Phoenix Suns are coming off the heels of a disappointing playoff exit, and major changes may be in the works. One of those changes may involve

larrybrownsports.com

 

[TJ]

Another story on Suns moving on from Ayton.

MSN

www.msn.com

This is regurgitation of the Hollinger article, but point remains that Ayton is gone

 

[TJ]

Ayton's camp wanted the Designated Rookie Scale Extension which I believe automatically means it goes to 25% of the cap (or higher if the player is eligible for a higher rate which DA wasn't).

The sticking point for us was that it would max us out on that particular option meaning we couldn't be in the market anytime soon for a high value player on a rookie contract. We could still give DA the 25% of cap but wanted to keep it to 4 years so it wouldn't qualify as a DRSE.

And as a result, the Suns will lose him for Pennies on the dollar. JJ overthought this and got greedy.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't think they're surprised; they just aren't sure they want to be the ones doing the paying. It's like if you go to a restaurant and there's a $300 bottle on the wine list. Obviously someone's willing to pay that amount, else the restaurant would change their pricing. But most of us think, "No way is that bottle of wine going to make a critical difference in my enjoyment of this meal."

While I appreciate the analogy, this ain't a restaurant. Owners like Sarver who aren't willing to commit the necessary dollars to compete essentially hold cities hostage, until the next tech billionaire can save us from being a feeder team for the rest of the league.

And yet if you look at the full list of max-level contracts in the league, probably at least half of them have negative value.

True, although the risk with a guy like Ayton (who has a very high floor) seems low. I'd personally be more inclined to pay Ayton a standard max than a Booker at the super max.

At some point, stars (but not superstars) will hamstring teams with supermax contracts.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton's camp wanted the Designated Rookie Scale Extension which I believe automatically means it goes to 25% of the cap (or higher if the player is eligible for a higher rate which DA wasn't).

The sticking point for us was that it would max us out on that particular option meaning we couldn't be in the market anytime soon for a high value player on a rookie contract. We could still give DA the 25% of cap but wanted to keep it to 4 years so it wouldn't qualify as a DRSE.

I'm not sure if this was a good enough reason not to give Ayton the max unless the Suns have their eye on such a player.

Ayton could have still been traded later on. Now they stand to lose him for a fraction of his value.

 

[elindholm]

While I appreciate the analogy, this ain't a restaurant. Owners like Sarver who aren't willing to commit the necessary dollars to compete essentially hold cities hostage, until the next tech billionaire can save us from being a feeder team for the rest of the league.

It's not a question of spending money, but of what you spend it on. The Suns had an above-average payroll last season, and that's before Bridges's extension kicks in. The "Sarver is cheap" trope has been shown to be false. He has many other weaknesses, of course.

True, although the risk with a guy like Ayton (who has a very high floor) seems low.

I disagree that he has a very high floor. He hasn't done a good job staying available to play (he's played in about 75% of his team's games, over his career), and his offensive numbers have benefitted from playing with a Hall-of-Fame point guard, who "makes everyone better."

Do you see him as the kind of player who could go to a mediocre team and lead them to a higher win total? I don't. How often did we see him lead the Suns offensively, even for part of a game, when he wasn't riding shotgun to either Paul or Booker? Very rarely. And how often did he stop trying on defense, before either Paul or Williams held him accountable and got his head back into the game? Pretty often. How well can he realistically be projected to perform if he doesn't have that support network?

Is anyone really worried that the Suns are going to meet Ayton's future team in a playoff series and he's going to dominate his former squad? I'm sure not.

I change my mind a lot. At the moment I'm in favor of keeping him, but I can sure sympathize with the arguments for letting him go.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's not a question of spending money, but of what you spend it on. The Suns had an above-average payroll last season, and that's before Bridges's extension kicks in. The "Sarver is cheap" trope has been shown to be false. He has many other weaknesses, of course.

Yeah, I'm not so much saying that Sarver is cheap, moreso that he's not willing to do whatever it takes to win. It's an important distinction, and what separates the haves and have nots in sports.

He hasn't done a good job staying available to play (he's played in about 75% of his team's games, over his career),

Uh, he's been incredibly healthy for a 7 footer. Yeah, the suspension was stupid, but I'd be much more concerned if it were an injury absence.

and his offensive numbers have benefitted from playing with a Hall-of-Fame point guard, who "makes everyone better."

I could understand that concern, if Ayton didn't put up better numbers with CP gone this year.

3 Phoenix Suns Players Show Silver Linings from Chris Paul’s Injury

The Phoenix Suns sure missed Chris Paul, but in his absence, they got some solid returns from three guys who could be crucial int he playoffs.

valleyofthesuns.com

Paul not being able to suit up impacted the entire Suns lineup, but many pointed to Deandre Ayton as the player who would be most affected. After all, Ayton is Paul’s pick-and-roll mate; rolls account for nearly a third of Ayton’s points total.

However, the exact opposite happened, as Ayton went on an absolute tear even without the Point God.

In those 15 games without CP3, Ayton averaged 19.5 points per game on 67.0 percent shooting—both up from his season averages. He looked as confident as ever shooting the midrange, taking jumpers without hesitation.

Do you see him as the kind of player who could go to a mediocre team and lead them to a higher win total?

Absolutely! Players who are incredibly efficient and play good D typically make their teams better.

How often did we see him lead the Suns offensively, even for part of a game, when he wasn't riding shotgun to either Paul or Booker?

Is that an indictment of Ayton, or more a function of an offense that emphasizes ball movement and hitting the open man vs. feeding individual players?

I don't know if he's ready to take 30 shots a game, but I think Ayton could comfortably shoot more.

And how often did he stop trying on defense, before either Paul or Williams held him accountable and got his head back into the game? Pretty often.

I have no idea how you would quantify that. I watched almost every game, and although his focus can wane at times, DA is also the most important player on our D.

Perhaps people won't realize this until he's gone.

How well can he realistically be projected to perform if he doesn't have that support network?

You're basically getting an efficient 20/10, with good D no matter what. At 24, I'll take the chance.

Is anyone really worried that the Suns are going to meet Ayton's future team in a playoff series and he's going to dominate his former squad? I'm sure not.

We've seen Ayton dominate playoff series before, I definitely wouldn't want to face him in the playoffs for 10 years.

I change my mind a lot. At the moment I'm in favor of keeping him, but I can sure sympathize with the arguments for letting him go.

Yeah, he's not perfect, but he's proven to be well worth a max contract at this point for me. If not the Suns, there will be plenty of other teams willing to take a shot on Ayton.

 

[Proximo]

And as a result, the Suns will lose him for Pennies on the dollar. JJ overthought this and got greedy.

If the Suns have any sense, they will get at least one first rounder. We at least have to have a chance of coming out ahead on the deal.