The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

I don't know what's going on but I believe it would be better to let Ayton walk for nothing than to have his contract upgraded to the super max. I just think the odds are overwhelmingly against you to win it all with a super max on your books. Maybe for a generational great such as prime Lebron but not for your average superstar. Regardless, since all it would do is open us up to the possibility of a super max, if that's the holdup we need to give in.

But more and more sources, probably working from the original story) are wording it as such that Sarver isn't willing to give DA the max. If that's the case, I think we're playing with fire. So obviously I hope that isn't the case and DA signs his max deal here before October 18th.

He can only sign two different max contracts one is a flat max and the other is the one with the incentives it’s the same one Trae Young, SAG and Porter Jr got. It’s pretty standard

Why wouldn’t you want to give him the incentives? If he doesn’t get to that level then you don’t have to pay him, but if he does get to All NBA then you should be thrilled your have an All NBA player. Those guys don’t grow on trees and they don’t come cheap

 

[Muggz]

Posturing and BS, DA's agent doing his job.
Ayton WANTS to be here, best to not change that.
I'll give Sarver a pass till something happens.

This is what should happen from here on out.
Ayton: I want this much.
Sarver: Would you like that split between your Bahamian account and your Wells Fargo account?
Ayton: And I'm gonna need your wife to give me a backrub after every home game.
Ayton: And call me sir
Sarver: Done!
Sarver: Sir!

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is a bad look going into the season. Anyone who says otherwise is living in Pollyannaland.

We might screw this up but if so I'd rather spend the next week or two in Pollyannaland anyway. I don't need to train to be miserable, I've been a fan of Arizona sports since John Jacobs was throwing interceptions for the Sun Devils so I've had plenty of practice.

I still expect us to sign both DA and Mikal prior to the deadline and while the optics on this has been lousy, there's still time to put it behind us without impacting this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

He can only sign two different max contracts one is a flat max and the other is the one with the incentives it’s the same one Trae Young, SAG and Porter Jr got. It’s pretty standard

Why wouldn’t you want to give him the incentives? If he doesn’t get to that level then you don’t have to pay him, but if he does get to All NBA then you should be thrilled your have an All NBA player. Those guys don’t grow on trees and they don’t come cheap

Michael Porter Jr.'s contract was not all guaranteed.

Michael Porter Jr., Nuggets agree to five-year designated max extension guaranteed for $145.3M, per reports

The deal is reportedly worth $172 million, but can jump to $207 million

www.cbssports.com

 

[Covert Rain]

It sounds like the contract extension talks information for Deandre Ayton didn't come from the Suns front office.

They are very good at not leaking information.

You think the organization would leak information to make them look bad? It was a given it came from Ayton's camp or someone close to it. I believe it too. For two reasons, history with this organization and that's a very specific thing to cite in negotiations. That's not something you make up on whim for a leak to the press. I trust Woj wouldn't be reporting it unless there was some truth to it.

 

[1Sun]

Gambo now reporting that Ayton might just take the qualifying offer and walk after next season. This just keeps getting better and better...

 

[Germz249]

Sigh.. I thought we were over this.. PAY HIM!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

We might screw this up but if so I'd rather spend the next week or two in Pollyannaland anyway. I don't need to train to be miserable, I've been a fan of Arizona sports since John Jacobs was throwing interceptions for the Sun Devils so I've had plenty of practice.

I still expect us to sign both DA and Mikal prior to the deadline and while the optics on this has been lousy, there's still time to put it behind us without impacting this season.

I'm not jumping off cliffs or anything right now. it's just a crappy story to open what we all hope will be a special season.

that said, crappy stories to open seasons haven't precluded other teams from winning titles in the past. if all gets settled in a timely fashion, this story will blow away like a fart in the wind. just stinks right now.

 

[Vacard]

Trade him for Myles Turner

 

[Mainstreet]

You think the organization would leak information to make them look bad? It was a given it came from Ayton's camp or someone close to it. I believe it too. For two reasons, history with this organization and that's a very specific thing to cite in negotiations. That's not something you make up on whim for a leak to the press. I trust Woj wouldn't be reporting it unless there was some truth to it.

I don't think anyone believes the Suns front is leaking information. They are pretty tight lipped about stuff like this.

Adrian Wojnarowski is getting information from somewhere though. It's easy to guess about the source.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Posturing and BS, DA's agent doing his job.
Ayton WANTS to be here, best to not change that.
I'll give Sarver a pass till something happens.

This is what should happen from here on out.
Ayton: I want this much.
Sarver: Would you like that split between your Bahamian account and your Wells Fargo account?
Ayton: And I'm gonna need your wife to give me a backrub after every home game.
Ayton: And call me sir
Sarver: Done!
Sarver: Sir!

Has Sarver ever done ANYTHING to deserve a pass? I mean you could point to last year's run, but we have over a decade of proof that Sarver is a terrible owner with terrible judgment.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'm still wondering what CP3 and especially Booker are thinking...

The most hollow threat ever.

 

[Muggz]

Has Sarver ever done ANYTHING to deserve a pass? I mean you could point to last year's run, but we have over a decade of proof that Sarver is a terrible owner with terrible judgment.

Its either that or cry about it on a forum. I'm just not ready to overreact yet.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Has Sarver ever done ANYTHING to deserve a pass? I mean you could point to last year's run, but we have over a decade of proof that Sarver is a terrible owner with terrible judgment.

History is not on his side, we can only hope he's learned his lesson. I can understand fans looking at this and concluding he has not learned his lesson but there's always a possibility that it's just the process being played out. I'm going to hope for that until reality slaps me senseless.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Its either that or cry about it on a forum. I'm just not ready to overreact yet.

I don't think anyone is "crying". I think they are voicing their consternation on a forum where the Suns are discussed.

Sarver has been maybe the worst pro sports owner over the past decade. He ran what was one a proud franchise into being a laughingstock. An entire generation of young people only think of the Suns as horrible.

 

[Mainstreet]

Its either that or cry about it on a forum. I'm just not ready to overreact yet.

This is where I'm at. I'm going to let things play out more before I make a judgement.

Sarver has done a lot of things right lately like hire James Jones, Monty Williams and pay such players as Devin Booker and Chris Paul.

 

[Finito]

I don't think anyone is "crying". I think they are voicing their consternation on a forum where the Suns are discussed.

Sarver has been maybe the worst pro sports owner over the past decade. He ran what was one a proud franchise into being a laughingstock. An entire generation of young people only think of the Suns as horrible.

Pretty much and all around the sports media today it was same old Sarver and this is why the Suns have been like this for so long. Brought up Joe Johnson and everything on the jump.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Hawks just made it to the Eastern Conference Finals after John Collins held out for a max deal coming off his rookie deal. He didn't end up getting it either. Ayton is better than Collins and more deserving of a max deal but that's a recent example of a player and team being at odds over a rookie extension that found success during the season and was able to come to a good resolution for both sides.

 

[Muggz]

yes

I don't think anyone is "crying". I think they are voicing their consternation on a forum where the Suns are discussed.

Sarver has been maybe the worst pro sports owner over the past decade. He ran what was one a proud franchise into being a laughingstock. An entire generation of young people only think of the Suns as horrible.

And TODAY we are the Western Conference Champs, with amazing upside and not much to bitch about. (Sarver was part of that)
Yet we have resorted to reacting to stories that have no validity beyond hearsay and Trumpanzian fake news BS.
Ayton wants to be here and he will, for at least this year. He HAS to play well regardless.
If we do lose him its a tragedy yeah, but life goes on. We would get something in exchange, KAT anyone?

 

[Phrazbit]

Sarver does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, not in the slightest. That said, I still expect that something will get done. I'd bet they're close and this is just Ayton's agent trying to push it.

I HOPE they are haggling over things like option years or contract length.

Honestly, if Ayton can play for the better part of a season the way he played in the playoffs, they'd be risking a lot not to extend him now. The Ayton we saw in the playoffs is a likely all-star and on either one of the all-nba teams or one of the 2 all-defense teams and making those teams opens up a MUCH higher max contract value.

Bridges I am less optimistic that a deal will get done and I can see why from both sides. Statistically, the Suns have a strong argument that he should be looking at a contract in the range of 4 years for 70-85 million. But if I am his agent I am telling Bridges that if he takes even a slight step up offensively, combined with his defending, he would be looking at 120+ million over 4 as a free agent, easy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sarver does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, not in the slightest. That said, I still expect that something will get done. I'd bet they're close and this is just Ayton's agent trying to push it.

I HOPE they are haggling over things like option years or contract length.

Honestly, if Ayton can play for the better part of a season the way he played in the playoffs, they'd be risking a lot not to extend him now. The Ayton we saw in the playoffs is a likely all-star and on either one of the all-nba teams or one of the 2 all-defense teams and making those teams opens up a MUCH higher max contract value.

Bridges I am less optimistic that a deal will get done and I can see why from both sides. Statistically, the Suns have a strong argument that he should be looking at a contract in the range of 4 years for 70-85 million. But if I am his agent I am telling Bridges that if he takes even a slight step up offensively, combined with his defending, he would be looking at 120+ million over 4 as a free agent, easy.

Are you talking about the rookie contract version of the super max? It was my understanding that the contract could allow for this happening anyway should Ayton meet the criteria this season. I just figured this was likely one of the sticking points between them, trying to keep his contract from escalating to the 30% level (of the cap).

As for Bridges, I think the idea his low range is near 70mil is beyond wishful thinking. From what I've read, even focusing on the stats, it seems to me that a 4 year contract even in the low 90's would be an absolute steal for us and probably be a black mark on his agent's resume when all is said and done.

 

[1Sun]

If the issue is over the bonuses, then Sarver has no excuse. They do not impact the Suns' cap situation, and then it would be entirely about Sarver being greedy and wanting to pocket a few extra million for himself.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If the issue is over the bonuses, then Srver has no excuse. They do not impact the Suns' cap situation, and then it would be entirely about Sarver being greedy and wanting to pocket a few extra million for himself.

Elaborate, please.

 

[1Sun]

Elaborate, please.

The Suns' cap number would be based on the 5 years, $172 million. When they say it could be as much as $207 million, those are entirely in the form of incentive bonuses, which are triggered by things such as making an All-Star team or an All-NBA team or winning an NBA performance award, and which do not count against the cap. As such, IF the issue is not allowing the bonuses, the only thing gained there is money in Sarver's pocket. And if the issue is that Sarver won't pay Ayton the $172 million, it begs the question as to why Sarver thinks Ayton is worth less than SGA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns' cap number would be based on the 5 years, $172 million. When they say it could be as much as $207 million, those are entirely in the form of incentive bonuses, which are triggered by things such as making an All-Star team or an All-NBA team or winning an NBA performance award, and which do not count against the cap. As such, IF the issue is not allowing the bonuses, the only thing gained there is money in Sarver's pocket. And if the issue is that Sarver won't pay Ayton the $172 million, it begs the question as to why Sarver thinks Ayton is worth less than SGA.

Ok, I didn't know about that, but I think some people use the word "bonus" casually and mean to include what happens if Ayton qualifies for the rookie contract super max, meaning his contract is elevated to 30% of the cap. Also, your conclusion that Sarver would just pocket the money is wrong. Whether it counts against the cap or future cap penalties or not, those bonuses are still paid out of the organizations coffers.