The Ayton Plan

[95pro]

I don't regard Hollinger as having much credibility anymore. He peaked about ten years ago.

It was him, then Mark Stein, now Woj.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There’s too much smoke here not for me to believe there’s fire. Especially with whatever happened to end the season, Monty’s comments at the post game presser and then admitting days later he still hadn’t talked to Ayton.

 

[Bufalay]

I don't regard Hollinger as having much credibility anymore. He peaked about ten years ago.

Peaked at what? Ten years ago he started working for the Grizzlies and stayed there for seven years.

 

[Covert Rain]

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Where there is smoke. Problem is he is not the only one saying it. Likely most of these guys are talking to teams likely hearing Ayton will be made available by the Suns. Either that or it's smoke screen to get Ayton's camp to seek an offer sheet and the Suns will swoop in and match. Just knowing the salary cap/luxury tax implications I am leaning he is gone.

I just hope the Suns don't screw this up and get a sign and trade going so we get value in return. if not? The fans are going to crucify both Sarver and Jones.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The timeline Suns podcast was great regarding Ayton. Very balanced with a ton of good info. I'd recommend it to everybody.

The Timeline: A Phoenix Suns Podcast

Listen to The Timeline: A Phoenix Suns Podcast on Pandora - A Phoenix Suns Podcast hosted by Mike Vigil and Sam Cooper. bluewirepods.com

www.stitcher.com

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Deandre Ayton Options and Suns Cap Breakdown with David aka The Four Point Play​

Our friend David joins us to give his feelings on the end of the playoffs and the season as a whole. We also talk through the mechanisms of a sign and trade, the likely Deandre Ayton outcomes, and the Suns cap sheet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

 

[Hoop Head]

Front office looking hella foolish now. That gamble JJ did last offseason for no good reason is coming back to bite him in the ass. He cant match an offer for someone who’s been actively saying that he wants out for months. This is why you never tempt fate like this. DA wanted feverishly to continue and finish his career with Phoenix last offseason and simply wanted to be paid his worth and what his peers were receiving. Now, he cant leave fast enough.

James Jones is trending towards Steve Keim status at this point.

JJ can certainly match an offer sheet that Ayton signs. It doesn't matter if Ayton wants out. Its been done before.

This idea Ayton has been asking to get out for months is also ridiculous. There hasn't been any firm information available that Ayton does want out, let alone that being established months ago. The Suns season didn't even end a month ago.

 

[elindholm]

Peaked at what? Ten years ago he started working for the Grizzlies and stayed there for seven years.

That was about my memory. He's a math nerd who could spin a yarn about advanced stats, and somehow worked his way into a front-office position, through which it was discovered that he doesn't understand anything about basketball. A classic example of the Peter Principle.

 

[Proximo]

The only thing better is if the Suns give Ayton the max offer for 5 years but that seems unlikely.

No that would be a misallocation of funds.

Give him a small amount over what other teams can offer and no more.

 

[TJ]

JJ can certainly match an offer sheet that Ayton signs. It doesn't matter if Ayton wants out. Its been done before.

This idea Ayton has been asking to get out for months is also ridiculous. There hasn't been any firm information available that Ayton does want out, let alone that being established months ago. The Suns season didn't even end a month ago.

It’s not good business to match an offer sheet for a RFA that the entire league knows wants out from his current team. JJ’s best bet is to S&T and hope for the best.

 

[elindholm]

Just like the Cards, the Suns appear to be surprised 24 year olds with high ceilings are being paid top dollar.

I don't think they're surprised; they just aren't sure they want to be the ones doing the paying. It's like if you go to a restaurant and there's a $300 bottle on the wine list. Obviously someone's willing to pay that amount, else the restaurant would change their pricing. But most of us think, "No way is that bottle of wine going to make a critical difference in my enjoyment of this meal."

People pay guys like Murray and Ayton because they almost never become available.

And yet if you look at the full list of max-level contracts in the league, probably at least half of them have negative value.

 

[Proximo]

I’ve seen enough of Paul and Monty to feel confident they can only go so far.

I’m starting Cam Payne next year

That is ridiculous.

I get the idea you may want to start transitioning to a young guy, but Cam Payne isn't him.

 

[Proximo]

Front office looking hella foolish now. That gamble JJ did last offseason for no good reason is coming back to bite him in the ass. He cant match an offer for someone who’s been actively saying that he wants out for months. This is why you never tempt fate like this. DA wanted feverishly to continue and finish his career with Phoenix last offseason and simply wanted to be paid his worth and what his peers were receiving. Now, he cant leave fast enough.

James Jones is trending towards Steve Keim status at this point.

No, he absolutely can match the offer, and should. You would have to have an IQ below 50 to give him up for nothing.

 

[Proximo]

This is bad

I kind of thought it was just a restatement of the obvious.

After that game 7 debacle it was kind of clear to me he was likely to be traded.

 

[Mainstreet]

No that would be a misallocation of funds.

Give him a small amount over what other teams can offer and no more.

Of course then he wouldn't sign a 5 year contract.

When the new NBA television contract comes around it may look like a bargain.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s not good business to match an offer sheet for a RFA that the entire league knows wants out from his current team. JJ’s best bet is to S&T and hope for the best.

This franchise is keenly aware of what bad business is. Once before they traded a young borderline star for Boris Diaw and what turned out to be the 15th and 21st pick in later drafts. That guy said don't match, and said it loudly. We caved and Joe Johnson went on to play in 7 All Star Games. Boris just came and went.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It was him, then Mark Stein, now Woj.

I haven't followed this so maybe it's legitimate but I know that in the past when one of them has said something like this, more follow. Plus, it still could be an agent driven scare tactic to try and get us to offer a full max, rather than waiting to match the lesser amount that other teams can offer.

I really won't be surprised whether we sign him to the deal he wants, sign and trade him or wait and match.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Of course then he wouldn't sign a 5 year contract.

When the new NBA television contract comes around it may look like a bargain.

That's why I'm not convinced he'll want a 5 year deal. He can probably do better signing a 3 or 4 year deal and opting out when the deal kicks in.

 

[Covert Rain]

I’ve seen enough of Paul and Monty to feel confident they can only go so far.

I’m starting Cam Payne next year

Huh? What are you smoking? We won't win 40 games with Cam Payn as our point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Huh? What are you smoking? We won't win 40 games with Cam Payn as our point.

Well, on the plus side, you can't embarrass yourself in the postseason if you don't make it to the playoffs. So we'd have that going for us, which is nice.

 

[Finito]

Huh? What are you smoking? We won't win 40 games with Cam Payn as our point.

Oh God. I didn’t say get rid of Paul but you have to find a way to drastically reduce his minutes

If Paul not starting means this is a lottery team then send Devin Booker packing right now cause it’s his time to carry this team and be the undisputed leader

 

[Covert Rain]

Oh God. I didn’t say get rid of Paul but you have to find a way to drastically reduce his minutes

If Paul not starting means this is a lottery team then send Devin Booker packing right now cause it’s his time to carry this team and be the undisputed leader

Dude. You said START Cam Payne. START. He wasn't even an effective backup from mid-march on and you want to START HIM? I repeat what drugs are you on? Even an old Chris Paul is twice the point guard Cam Payne is.

At one point he had the worst plus/minus of the guards. Payne is not an answer period. We need a legit backup PG. I don't disagree that Paul can't be the guy we lean on to save us in the 4th quarter all the time. It's just a dumb way to play. Give me Holiday everyday and twice on Sunday before seeing Payne play the primary backup for this team any longer. Not that I think Holiday is the answer either but no more Cam Paynful.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's why I'm not convinced he'll want a 5 year deal. He can probably do better signing a 3 or 4 year deal and opting out when the deal kicks in.

I guess it depends on how confident Deandre is in himself.

An improving player would want the player options and a four year deal.

 

[TJ]

No, he absolutely can match the offer, and should. You would have to have an IQ below 50 to give him up for nothing.

I meant that Ayton will be involved in a S&T.

 

[Finito]

Dude. You said START Cam Payne. START. He wasn't even an effective backup from mid-march on and you want to START HIM? I repeat what drugs are you on? Even an old Chris Paul is twice the point guard Cam Payne is.

At one point he had the worst plus/minus of the guards. Payne is not an answer period. We need a legit backup PG. I don't disagree that Paul can't be the guy we lean on to save us in the 4th quarter all the time. It's just a dumb way to play. Give me Holiday everyday and twice on Sunday before seeing Payne play the primary backup for this team any longer. Not that I think Holiday is the answer either but no more Cam Paynful.

What’s your solution? I see both Payne and Paul being on the roster next year. Who’s this great back up point guard your going to get? What are you giving up for him and how much do you realistically give up for a back up PG? We don’t have money go sign anyone.

On top of that if you are going after a back up PG your saying Paul is still your starter. If Paul is your starter do you realistically see him holding up and making it through a long post season run?

Yeah Payne was horrible so was this entire team once they locked up the 1 seed, but Payne’s best stretch came when he did start and when he has started the last two season he’s actually played really well.

 

[GatorAZ]

How I would rank the centerpieces in some of the reported interested teams:

Toronto: OG - 24 years old on a great contract

Indy: Turner + Brogdon - not much of a downgrade if they stay healthy

Orlando: Isaac/WCJ + Anthony - some young talent under control

OKC: Dort + JRE (not sure if any trade with OKC works financially)

Detroit: Grant - good player but a FA after next year

Spurs - only if Keldon Johnson is included would I want Poeltl

Hornets: They’ve been brought up but nothing makes sense as trade partners