The Cardinals and a FRANCHISE QB

[Seandonic]

If the Cardinals are in position (and it looks like they will be) to take a franchise QB they MUST pull the trigger. By franchise QB I mean Luck, Mallett, or Locker. (This of course is assuming they don't pick up a big time FA in the off-season. That is not their m.o. and I don't believe they get that done.)

A team is rarely in position to take a franchise QB and must roll the dice if they are. Of the 32 teams in the NFL 17 of them start a 1st rounder and four start a QB taken no later than the early 2nd round.

Since 2000 26 QB's have been taken in the 1st round and 15 of them have been good to great. Three have been mediocre. Seven have been busts a la Leinart and one I give an incomplete grade (Tebow). Not one team that has had a chance twice in that decade at a franchise QB has completely whiffed both times. Just so you know, the guys I gave good to great grades to are: Pennington, Vick, Palmer, E. Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Young, Cutler, Ryan, Flaco, Stafford (he's been injured a lot but looks good when he's in), Sanchez, Freeman, and Bradford.

Including the three moderates (Leftwich, Grossman, and Campbell) plus the incomplete (Tebow) in with the 15 good to greats, thats 18 qb's out of 26 that the Cards would be better off with than what they have now. Plus, those odds look pretty good to me.

I am aware that the Cardinals need some other positions very badly such as OLB and O-line. In fact the O-line must be addressed via draft, trade, or free-agency along with picking a franchise QB or else it will seriously stunt his growth. The Cards offensive line gave up 93 QB hits in 2009. That's incredible considering K. Warner had one of the quickest releases in the NFL.

The bottom line is that after a terrible year, a rebuilding must occur. Why not start that rebuilding with the most important player on the field?

 

[vince56]

Kevin Kolb. He's ready to win now. Fitz is in his 7th year and the team has talent.

 

[Seandonic]

Kevin Kolb. He's ready to win now. Fitz is in his 7th year and the team has talent.

Just because a guy is a rookie does not mean he is not ready to win now.

Look back over just the past three years. Five out of the seven QB's taken in the first round were ready to start and play well right from opening day. (Ryan, Flaco, Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford)

Plus, the way of thinking in which you pass on a franchise QB for some immediate yet short lived success is the way teams get into this up and down constantly in need of a franchise QB problem.

Also, the Eagles probably aren't going to let Kolb go and the Cardinals are too meek to go out and do whatever they have to to get him even if they did.

The way to win in the NFL is with a FRANCHISE QB, not some other teams back-up who hasn't even played a full season.

 

[mrbyte]

Kevin Kolb. He's ready to win now. Fitz is in his 7th year and the team has talent.

I dont think the Eagles are going to let Kolb go, i think they will try to keep both Vick and Kolb

 

[Garthshort]

Seandonic, I agree with you. If we could get Kolb, assuming we're out of LUCK, I'd go for him, giving up our number one (and probably more), since besides Luck, I'm not sure there are any other sure shots in the Draft. Newton is a guy that excites me, but his accuracy is a question. Locker is having a terrible year, and Mallet seems to have a big upside but is no sure thing. And I don't know how the Boise State QB will translate to the NFL, but I'm sure that there are a lot of posters who do, so I'll be interested to read their take.

 

[az jam]

I believe that Andy Reid will (of course) resign Vick and publicly state his intent to also keep Kolb. However Reid is shrewd and would trade Kolb for the right price which I think includes a number one draft pick. Are the Cards willing to trade a top ten pick (which is where they will draft this year) for Kolb? That is a key question.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Gimme Kolb or Vick before any draft pick. Last time we drafted a top QB prospect we sat him on the bench waited until the day before he gets his start to his career then cut him.

 

[BigRedMO]

I think you should get a top notch FA but doubt Bidwill will pay McNabb kind of money so he will get a retread 2nd or 3d stringer to play QB immediately. Warner was a retread. There is no way Bidwill hits the lottery with another HOFer but hopefully he can manage the game. Longterm - I hope they trade whomever they have to including Fitz to get the first QB out of the draft.

A rookie can win. Look at Bradford.

 

[Cardiac]

I think you should get a top notch FA but doubt Bidwill will pay McNabb kind of money so he will get a retread 2nd or 3d stringer to play QB immediately. Warner was a retread. There is o way Bidwill hits the lottery with another HOFer but hopefully he can manage the game. Longterm - I hope they trade whomever they have to including Fitz to get the first QB out of the draft.

A rookie can win. Look at Bradford.

Who will be available as a FA that you would throw McNabb kind of money to?

I wouldn't have paid McNabb what Snyder paid him, or Hanesworth, or......well it's a very long list.

I want Bulger next year. He has had a year to recover and get his mind right. He isn't Warner but he had some fantastic years when he had talent around him.

 

[schutd]

I agree withe yer premise, but calling Pennington good to great is a stretch IMO, and Campbell and Grossman as moderates? Those guys are disappointments at best. Pennington could have been there, if he ever found a way to stay even serviceably healthy. It didnt happen.

 

[BigRedMO]

Who will be available as a FA that you would throw McNabb kind of money to?

I wouldn't have paid McNabb what Snyder paid him, or Hanesworth, or......well it's a very long list.

I want Bulger next year. He has had a year to recover and get his mind right. He isn't Warner but he had some fantastic years when he had talent around him.

McNabb is a winner. He is worth the money on the right team. Dan Snyder wont get the value from him though because he is Dan Snyder just like he cant get the value from Haynesworth who was a monster in TN. I dont know if there will be anybody of McNabb's class this year. It is not often a team throws away a QB in his early 30s that got you to several championship games. My point is Bidwill would not pay that kind of money even if there was a guy available like McNabb. He lowballed the only guy to get his team to a Super Bowl. You are right to be looking for a second string QB. That is what Bidwill will be looking for. Bulger only signed a one year contract?

 

[NJCardFan]

Roethlisberger won as a rookie as well if you remember. As for future franchise QB's, I'd even take a flyer on Ponder. He is raw as all get out but he has the tools. He reminds me a bit of Neil Lomax. Don't ask me how but there's something about the kid that looks good.

 

[moklerman]

It's fun to do the hot stove thing but I really have no idea what Whis wants in a QB at this point.

Brian St. Pierre, Max Hall, Derek Anderson and John Skelton don't give me much optimism in terms of what he prefers and what I think is a good QB. Not that I know more than him, but if I'm making guesses about who will be good for the Cardinals and who Whis might go after, I kind of like to know the general approach.

Bulger's accuracy, quick release and willingness to play within a system seem like a good fit but his durability is a big issue. Even after Martz, Bulger didn't stay healthy for long stretches at a time.

Hasslebeck is an intriguing choice to me as well. Probably hated by most around here, but I think he's a QB who can really put up numbers, like Bulger, if put in the right situation. His back is certainly a scary proposition but if the Seahawks let him go, I'd certainly consider him if I were the Cardinals.

Also, if they decide to go the affordable, veteran with experience and potential upside route, I'd have no problem with them bringing in Sage Rosenfels. His last 3 years in Houston he completed around 65% of is passes with no running game. His TD/INT ratio could have been better 24/23 but he played pretty solidly overall for the Texans. He'll be 33 next year, is 6'4, 222 so there really aren't any problems with the measurables.

Another plus is that I don't believe he's ever had any serious injuries. I also think he's got a chip on his shoulder and is ready to prove he can be starter in this league. He got screwed in the Vikings/Favre situation and he was never going to supplant Schaub in Houston. Whether in Arizona or elsewhere, I think he gets a shot to start next year.

 

[splitsecond]

mallett is DA pt II

 

[desertdawg]

QBOF F F F F

My new list after current events. (first, leave Bulger in the scrap heap)

1 Luck
2 Kolb
3 Mallet/Locker
4 Newton
5 Palmer
6 TJ (minn, he will be a free agent and probably wants out)
7 McNaab (the cheese is old and moldy)

I tried to pick dudes we might actually have a shot at instead of just saying who I wanted or who would fit good here. If we are really talking about the future, I don't want an old QB that will retire like Kurt did with in the next 5-6 years.

I know I will get ripped on my picks but no worries. I understand this QB problem has every one trying to think of some kind of solution.

 

[Cardiac]

McNabb is a winner. He is worth the money on the right team. Dan Snyder wont get the value from him though because he is Dan Snyder just like he cant get the value from Haynesworth who was a monster in TN. I dont know if there will be anybody of McNabb's class this year. It is not often a team throws away a QB in his early 30s that got you to several championship games. My point is Bidwill would not pay that kind of money even if there was a guy available like McNabb. He lowballed the only guy to get his team to a Super Bowl. You are right to be looking for a second string QB. That is what Bidwill will be looking for. Bulger only signed a one year contract?

I just saw the particulars on McNabbs new deal (Urbans Blog).

came out today with the crucial piece of info that the Redskins owe McNabb only a $3.5 million bonus this year and then another option bonus next offseason. It means the Redskins, if they don’t like how McNabb plays the rest of the year, can cut him after the season with no problem.

Yes Bulger only signed a one year contract with the Ravens.

You still haven't name what other big time winning QB will be a FA next year. I wasn't thrilled with how the Cards handled Warners contract but in the end they paid him.

 

[BigRedMO]

I dont know if there will be anybody of McNabb's class this year.

Here is where I addressed your question.

I dont care about how McNabb plays this year. He is on a dysfunctional team with a dysfunctional head coach. The article yesterday about why the deal was done after he was benched said that Snyder was trying to save his HC. The way the HC handled both Haynesworth and the McNabb benching had lost the locker room and Monday's awful play was that of a team that had given up. If McNabb is out there the Cards should grab him. He is in his early 30s so he hasnt gotten old. He might have developed some bad habits but I like his attitude and he wins. His upside is greater than what Warner was when he went to AZ.

 

[Cardiac]

Here is where I addressed your question.

Yes you did, sorry I sped read.

I don't doubt that RG and KW and MB would spend what it takes to get a "McNabb" if available. Bill Sr.???????????

 

[ARZCardinals]

After drafting Leinart...I'll never believe we have a franchise QB till it's shown.
Rooks are Rooks...the latest draft class to come out Bradford, McCoy and Tebow will be the best 3 QB's the NFL see's in awhile.
There isn't a franchise QB amungst the rest. They're all good players, but they can't read defenses worth a a pint, their O line gives them a month to throw the ball and they all lock onto receivers.
Franchise QB's come along less than franchise left tackles. There are very few Joe Thomas's out there....and a lot of Levi Brown's.

Leinart WAS our answer, but they didn't give him the shot he and the fans deserved.

Yell all you want about Leinart not being the answer, but he knew the system inside and out...his stats were solid and he got a lot more points than the two jokers we have now.

any new qb will have to learn the playbook and it'll take 3 years to do that...are you willing to sit back and have 3 bad years to wait for his development....no I didn't think so....you couldn't even let Leinart be a backup behind Hall and DA.

This is a doomed situation

 

[Russ Smith]

Kevin Kolb. He's ready to win now. Fitz is in his 7th year and the team has talent.

They had this debate on ESPN this morning and Mike and Mike both seemed to agree if given the choice the Cards (tehy specifically talked about us) should go after Kolb. They said if Philly wants a 1 and a 3 and you have a pick in the middle of the first round where Locker or Mallett are the only options, you trade for Kolb. Golic said he'd take Kolb over Luck which I disagree with but I would take him over Mallett or Locker any day of the week.

 

[CaptTurbo]

They had this debate on ESPN this morning and Mike and Mike both seemed to agree if given the choice the Cards (tehy specifically talked about us) should go after Kolb. They said if Philly wants a 1 and a 3 and you have a pick in the middle of the first round where Locker or Mallett are the only options, you trade for Kolb. Golic said he'd take Kolb over Luck which I disagree with but I would take him over Mallett or Locker any day of the week.

Problem is we will have a top 5 pick.

 

[chickenhead]

Any possiblility that we could trade down to the middle of the first round and then do the deal with Philly?

I really wonder what Whiz thinks of Locker, and if he thinks he could have immediate success similar to Roethlisberger (personality conflicts aside).

 

[CaptTurbo]

Whiz thinks of Locker, and if he thinks he could have immediate success similar to Roethlisberger (personality conflicts aside).

Seems our HC has a lot of personality conflicts with NFL QB's........... just saying.

 

[Russ Smith]

Here is where I addressed your question.

I dont care about how McNabb plays this year. He is on a dysfunctional team with a dysfunctional head coach. The article yesterday about why the deal was done after he was benched said that Snyder was trying to save his HC. The way the HC handled both Haynesworth and the McNabb benching had lost the locker room and Monday's awful play was that of a team that had given up. If McNabb is out there the Cards should grab him. He is in his early 30s so he hasnt gotten old. He might have developed some bad habits but I like his attitude and he wins. His upside is greater than what Warner was when he went to AZ.

I don't think Shanahan handled it well but quite frankly for a veteran QB to be that flummoxed by a new offense is pretty startling. I've heard Dilfer talk about it several times now he says it's not a secret around the league that McNabb and Shanahan aren't getting along and that the main problem is Shanahan thinks McNabb doesn't know the offense, hasn't worked hard enough to learn the offense, and wants to do his own thing.

Shanahan has a pretty long and good history of working with NFL QB's, he is the one guy in the NFL that got Jake Plummer to play good football, he's not easy to play for he demands perfection, but the man can coach a QB.

I also think McNabb is the wrong QB for our team, he's never been an accurate thrower in the short and intermediate routes, he throws a great deep ball but he's not a guy that hits guys in stride. He's not DA bad of course but he's a vertical QB and we don't have vertical WR's.

 

[Russ Smith]

Problem is we will have a top 5 pick.

Sure but it's almost the same scenario. Unless Luck is there I don't see a QB in this draft I'd take over Kolb in a trade. I wouldn't touch Locker or Mallett in the top 5, I would consider Mallett in the top 15. I think Locker is a late first or early second QB. Physically talented but a better athlete than QB right now.

We could obviously get another talented player at DL (Dareus, Fairley) at CB(peterson from LSU) etc, but if we're talking about acquiring a QB, I'd rather trade a top 5 pick and get someone like Kolb. I'm not convinced Kolb is going to be a great QB but I do think he's pretty good and I think he fits this system.

Mallett and Locker are not accurate throwers, they don't fit our WR's.

FYI story today in the SJ Mercury News quotes Jim Harbaugh saying he is convinced Luck is ready for the NFL and will tell him that if asked. He didn't say he's encouraging him to go just saying I see him everyday in practice and he's absolutely ready for the NFL. The article goes on to quote Luck's dad saying Harbaugh is like a second father to his son and implies if Harbaugh leaves Stanford, Luck would to.

So it's interesting you still get the idea Luck and his family aren't in any hurry to turn pro, but might because Harbaugh is telling him he probably
should.