The Dbacks offseason thread

MaoTosiFanClub

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coyoteshockeyfan said:
You make it sound like he's already been traded. The Dbacks have resisted the urge to trade him for this long, why does everybody think they are going to do it now? :shrug:
Clark's two year contract and Gonzo not going anywhere according to Kendrick combined with Melvin's reluctance to play anyone younger than 30 to me looks like a Jackson trade is very possible while his value is high. Sorry I'm not going to defend this front office's moves at all costs (as you like to do) if they're stupid. Nothing has happened yet but multiple media members(Gammons, Rosenthal, FutureBacks, local writers) have all said Conor was being discussed in trades. Had only Gammons come out and said something is one thing, but for multiple sources to enter the fray has me worried.

Fact remains that we shouldn't even be discussing Jackson trades. As one of the best propects in baseball Conor should be getting work done in anticipation of being the starting 1B or LF next year. Not studying pinch hitting tapes so he can learn the art of spelling one-year wonder Tony Clark or living week wondering where he will be playing next year so the organization that drafted him can delude themselves into thinking they're championship material with another veteran.
 
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AZZenny

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Clark's two year contract and Gonzo not going anywhere according to Kendrick combined with Melvin's reluctance to play anyone younger than 30 to me looks like a Jackson trade is very possible while his value is high. Sorry I'm not going to defend this front office's moves at all costs (as you like to do) if they're stupid. Nothing has happened yet but multiple media members(Gammons, Rosenthal, FutureBacks, local writers) have all said Conor was being discussed in trades. Had only Gammons come out and said something is one thing, but for multiple sources to enter the fray has me worried.

Fact remains that we shouldn't even be discussing Jackson trades. As one of the best propects in baseball Conor should be getting work done in anticipation of being the starting 1B or LF next year. Not studying pinch hitting tapes so he can learn the art of spelling one-year wonder Tony Clark or living week wondering where he will be playing next year so the organization that drafted him can delude themselves into thinking they're championship material with another veteran.


What he said. There is no evidence so far that the new FO has any patience, or any concept or plan to build a fiscally and athletically sound, balanced team for the long haul. It's still all about disastrous one-year rescue operations, and so far there is nothing to indicate that's going to change. They seem to think local fans will only respond to pre-packaged glitzy big names.

Gawd, I'm depressed now.
 

IndyDevil

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Fact remains that we shouldn't even be discussing Jackson trades.

Absolutely, positively correct - - but why do I get a baaaaaad feeling that the FO is about to do something terrible?!
 

overseascardfan

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If I'm management I try to trade Gonzalez, and include prospects like Terrero, Santos, Pena, and anyone else not in our future plans (i.e. Marland Williams, Josh Kroeger) for a #1 starting pitcher (Zito, Sabathia) and land a permanent catcher.

This would be my Opening Day roster:
C- Ramon Hernandez
1B- Conor Jackson
2B- Craig Counsell
SS- Stephen Drew
3B- Troy Glaus
RF- Shawn Green
CF- Carlos Quentin
LF- Chad Tracy

SP- Zito or Sabathia
SP- Vazquez
SP- Webb
SP- Estes or Halsey
SP- Vargas

RP- BJ Ryan, Kyle Farnsworth, Aquino, Valverde, another lefty
CP- Lyon
 

ASUCHRIS

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You can still put as many sprinkles on this turd sundae. I'm not eating it.
 

Diamondback Jay

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Sorry I'm not going to defend this front office's moves at all costs (as you like to do) if they're stupid.

Nothing wrong with being an internal optimist. However, if Arizona DOES trade Conor without getting at LEAST the King's Ransom in return (and no, I don't mean Torii Hunter and a few bucks to sooth the pain), there will be no defense for them.

Fact remains that we shouldn't even be discussing Jackson trades. As one of the best propects in baseball Conor should be getting work done in anticipation of being the starting 1B or LF next year. Not studying pinch hitting tapes so he can learn the art of spelling one-year wonder Tony Clark or living week wondering where he will be playing next year so the organization that drafted him can delude themselves into thinking they're championship material with another veteran.

The sad but true reality is that while he SHOULD be preparing for his first season as full-time starter, and the Diamondback FO SHOULD be trying to shop Clark while his value still exists, reality is they seem to have no damn clue what they're doing with him.

I can't help but having nightmarish visions of another Schilling-to-Bostonesque deals where the Diamondbacks get stuck with a "star" who's either at the peak of his prime or towards the end.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Listen i love Conor as much as everybody else on the board and I am def. AGAINST trading him for Hunter. But the kid can be had FOR THE RIGHT PRICE. Hes possibly expendable because of Quentin being a similar level prospect at a simialar position. Right team wrong player though. Give me a Johan Santana for a Jackson, Gosling, Aquino package and then we can talk.

We can whine and bitch all we want about the FO's ineptitude but the right GM hire will be all the difference.But the RIGHT GM will get some damn young pitching in here and get Upton deal done as soon as it becomes availiable.

Either way if Jackson gets dealt for anything less than a current ace or a future ace, Moorad and Kendrick should be hung in eefige in front of Chase Field.....
 

Diamondback Jay

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Arizona's Finest said:
Listen i love Conor as much as everybody else on the board and I am def. AGAINST trading him for Hunter. But the kid can be had FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

That's my principle. I would hate to see Conor go, but if the right offer comes around, I'd definately be acceptant of the deal. As you said, if they landed Santana, I'd jump directly through the damned roof and do a two-step jig while running down Jefferson preparing to kiss Kevin Towers' (or whoever the GM winds up being) ass. However, IMHO it's gotta take a YOUNG pitcher/impact player of at least that caliber (i/e no 30 and over guys) for the Diamondbacks to take even remotely seriously. Crawford and maybe a pitcher (Dewon Brazelton?) for Conor, Terrerro, Gosling and Aquino? Then we talk.. Torii Hunter? No thanks, we pass.
 
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coyoteshockeyfan

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Clark's two year contract and Gonzo not going anywhere according to Kendrick combined with Melvin's reluctance to play anyone younger than 30 to me looks like a Jackson trade is very possible while his value is high. Sorry I'm not going to defend this front office's moves at all costs (as you like to do) if they're stupid. Nothing has happened yet but multiple media members(Gammons, Rosenthal, FutureBacks, local writers) have all said Conor was being discussed in trades. Had only Gammons come out and said something is one thing, but for multiple sources to enter the fray has me worried.
My point was, how many times have we heard rumors about Conor Jackson or any of our other big prospects? He's been talked about in the media rumor mill ever since he was trade-eligible, really. There is certianly nothing new about this. I do back the FO more than the average ASFNer, but for the record, if Jackson gets traded, Ill be badmouthing the FO right with you (unless the return is unbelievable).
 

KingLouieLouie

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Your Dbacks Offseason Wishlist?

First, I apologize for not posting in this forum for over the past several months, but will on a regular basis again shortly.... Anyways.. I'm wondering what everyone's Dbacks offseason wishlist is?

I'm currently posting this at my school's library and usually have problems posting lengthy messages from here, so I must make this brief for now and will elaborate on my list later....

Johnny Damon (would be the ideal lead-off hitter/CF the Dbacks are in dire need of and someone who fits Byrnes mold)..Plus the Red Sox connection of Damon/Byrnes could go in Dbacks favor of luring him here.....

Obviously they need a proven veteran closer and there are several available on this year's market... Perhaps BJ Ryan or Todd Jones could both come at a bargain price.... Would love Trevor Hoffman or Billy Wagner, but of course they will command such a lucrative contract and with the Dbacks trying to limit their payroll to $65 mil, I just don't see either of those latter players accepting such a huge paycut to come here.....

Signing Bengie Molina to a 3 yr deal worth somewhere around 2.3 mil a year would be a worthwhile investment for the Dbacks since they just need some production and stability at the catcher spot... Just dont believe Koyie Hill will develop offensively and Snyder is just too erratic......

I would definitely retain both Tim Worrell(who appeared like he was revitalized returning back home to AZ) and Buddy Groom would be perfect as the LH specialist coming out of the BP in '06 since he's proven himself capable for the past 5-yrs in that role (especially during his time spent in Baltimore)....

Starting pitching.. it's all contingent on what becomes of Vazquez, but Jeff Weaver might be intriguing enough to add as their #2 starter......

It should be an intriguiging offseason and be fascinating to see the amount of clout that Byrnes will have in his role, but adding Johnny Damon alone would catapult the Dbacks to be the '06 NL West division favorites.....
 
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ASUCHRIS

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Sorry, I just don't agree with the Damon reccomendation. Sure, he may put up impressive numbers, but I just don't see him being a reasonable contract. His name value and recognition, like that of Konerko will drive them out of our price range, because we simply can't overpay and make mistakes after the Gonzo/Glaus/Ortiz trifecta. (i.e. players making far more than they deserve)
 

Ryanwb

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I wonder if they are going to fire sale this season and go into 2007 with all the prospects we have like Drew, Jackson, Quinten etc....? Give the new GM a clean slate and see what kind of prospects he can bring back.

Again, on the other side of the coin, the NL west will probably still be up for grabs with a .500 ballclub so it may not even be worth it.
 

Ryanwb

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I was reading a few days ago that Carl Crawford is quitely on the trading block due to some disagreements with management (?) or something to that effect. I don't quite remember... He would be a really nice pickup
 

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Johnny Damon and Bengie Molina are both going to overpricede and not worth the money they'll inevitably get. B-Mo is an overweight, injury-prone catcher on the wrong side of 30 and Damon's defense is in rapid decline while his offense ain't worth the $10 mil a season somebody will give him. Plus Damon would be insane to sign here with all the marketing propsects on the East Coast.

I'd go after Bobby Howry, Rudy Seanez, Preston Wilson, and angry Kenny Rogers all to deals for three years or less. This is not the free agency class you want to spend a bunch of money on.
 

The Commish

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I doubt that Damon would be willing to sign here. Right idea though. Ideally what we need is a guy for the next 3 years until Upton can make it up to the bigs (assuming we ever sign him).

I think the most important position for us this offseason is a catcher. While our pitching woes are well documented, I think a solid catcher like Ramon Hernandez could help both the pitching staff, as well as his in the lineup. Chris Snyder was possibly the worst hitting catcher I have ever seen.

Pitching wise, I have no idea who is out there and what the cost would be. Kenny Rogers wouldn't be bad if he came cheap. I have to see who is out there first and at what price before I start to put my wishlist together.
 

FinleyLover

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I really like the idea of a fire sale. It's past time to really truly start fresh and let the future begin. The veterans got the ring- at a price- and now it's time to build from the ground up for the next ring. We have so many exciting young players, they really need to start seriously developing them with LONG TERM goals in mind, i.e., not letting them go after one season because of falling short of someone's expectations, read Lyle Overbay, JPatt et al.

Maybe with Byrnes he will get a fairly clean slate to work with.
As much as I like Johnny D, I think his asking price will be way above what he is actually worth. Same with Bengie Molina. I wasn't terribly impressed with him this post season.
 

Arizona's Finest

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My one wish would have been to go after a top line pitching coach, and get something out of those live arms we have in the bull pen. I have not heard many glowing recommendations about the new hire.

1) Signing Justin Upton: A Carl Crawford trade would be very nice but i think that blocks a kid like Upton, AND we have to get him signed. With the remarkable ascent of Stephen Drew this last year after not playing for an entire year is nothing short of startling. The D'backs going for the top prospect despite the signing worries has really paid off huge already and to assume a player of Uptons ability couldn't do the same is short sighted. I think he can be that lead off man we need and im thinking in like 2007 or sooner. Griffey Jr. and AROD both were playing at 18 and Gammons compared Utpon to both of them when he described him as a "once a decade prospect" So i think getting him signed as soon as MLB rules allow should be a high priority just to find out how good he really is.

2) Big time young pitcher: Wish list right? Well i would like to see Byrnes come in right off the bat and take a gamble in trading for a young durable picture. If we have to flip Javy Vasquez maybe include a prospect and see if we can get a buy low/sell high young pitching prospect...Erik Bedard?? Cole Hamels? I'm not sure either of those guys are sure fire prospects, but they play for teams that i think would be viable and its a risk the team needs to make. I trust in Byrnes talent evaluating ability history although i heard his name connected to a bad draft in Cleveland. A more vetran pitcher like Zito? We made a mistake last year when we didn't try to get Contreras out of the Yankees in our many trade talks. He has now developed to the point that with his nasty stuff, he is a legit ace. Thats the kind of risk we have to take, because Webb is great but best as a 2....

Maybe Mark Prior for a Cubs team in dissaray and concerns if he can ever stay healthy? I'm not sure that would be a smart move by the Cubs, but who knows?

3)Look to the future: Trading away players that our short term answers and blocking the paths of some of our prospects seems the best way to go. I feel like the front office feels a loyalty to vets like Gonzo and want to surround them with players who can help them win now. That should not be a concern any longer as we have to move on from how we worked in the past.

In fact i would like to go for a young but talented team but that in a year or two when those young players become big contributors, we can augment them with money spent in the right places. We might have enough talent to win with the young guys if we get the right pitching performances. Everyone kills the Marlins for their fire sale, but those rough couple years has led to them being a contender year in and year out and they have another title to boot.

4) Catcher: I'm not saying anything original here. The one reason a player ike Molina shouldn't be to discounted is because of the way he controls a pitching staff and leadership. Our team thrived when we had a defensive vet catcher in Damian Miller. Thats the kind of production we need in that department and a Ramon Hernandez signing would be a great step in the right direction, although if im not mistaken Ramon is known for his offensive prowess moreso.

5) Someone fiery in the dugout: I don't mind Shawn Green and Tony Clark and its good beacuse they are the two vets most likely to not be traded. But everyone from our prospects, to our vets, to our coachs are so docile. I feel like Melvin presides over a mortuary every time i look into that dugout. Since its unlikely they fire the manager, get someone in there who is going to light a fire under somebody. Wally Backman as hitting coach :D ??? Anyone? Anyone?

The front office should identify what young pitching the want right now and be figuring out what chips they could have to flip to get some of those players. If we can acquire a couple young starters as good as Westbrook and Sabathia in Cleveland, we have a chance to be competing division titles sooner rather then later...

I will say one thng about his hiring....It has caused my apathy to dissapear...im thinking we hit it big with a couple of these young guys (Drew, Jackson, Quentin, Tracy) and then if we have a savvy boy wonder GM, it can make all the difference of the course of the season and down the road.....
 
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overseascardfan

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I say they need to pursue Ramon Hernandez and B.J. Ryan the hardest and maybe go after Farnsworth or Urbina.


The pitching staff despite their overall record was not our biggest problem winning games, it was timely hitting and scoring runs.

I am for a fire sale in which we could send Gonzo to some AL team where he can DH. There aren't any aces available via free agency and a trade would cost us top level prospects, so I think we'll stay with what we got in our rotation. We cannot get rid of Glaus because he was our most productive player offensively.

Leadoff I think we should go with Counsell until Upton is ready, first we have to sign him or go after Carl Crawford.
 

AZZenny

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Much as I'd rather send Gonzo and Green away than Glaus, must say in the abstract, the idea of Josh Byrnes dealing on our behalf - esp for Red Sox prospects or a mix of Angels and Red Sox prospects - actually has me SMILING!!

Good lord, hope is a four-letter word.

Reports hinted that Theo wanted to have Boston truly rebuild for the next year or so around their emerging young talent, but Lucchino wanted to go for mature big names. JB knows the Red Sox farm really well, and also the Angels have got some AMAZING young guys - well... if top prospects are streaming IN to Arizona, not OUT, I'll be happier than I've been in a good long while.


p.s. Anyone care to wager how long before we resurrect the :barf: smiley for our GM?
 

Diamondback Jay

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AZZenny said:
Much as I'd rather send Gonzo and Green away than Glaus, must say in the abstract, the idea of Josh Byrnes dealing on our behalf - esp for Red Sox prospects or a mix of Angels and Red Sox prospects - actually has me SMILING!!

Good lord, hope is a four-letter word.

Reports hinted that Theo wanted to have Boston truly rebuild for the next year or so around their emerging young talent, but Lucchino wanted to go for mature big names. JB knows the Red Sox farm really well, and also the Angels have got some AMAZING young guys - well... if top prospects are streaming IN to Arizona, not OUT, I'll be happier than I've been in a good long while.


p.s. Anyone care to wager how long before we resurrect the :barf: smiley for our GM?

Think Santana might be included in that deal, with him coming to Arizona?
 

Arizona's Finest

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Snake said:
Think Santana might be included in that deal, with him coming to Arizona?

As long as we dont trade for Kotchman....last thing we need is another first baseman....

here the players unlikely to be involved:
Kotchman
McPherson
Hanly Ramirez (red sox ss)
brandon wood
Weavers little brother

most likely included:
Shoppach
Youklis
Palpebon
Santana
Pedroia (now this would make me VERY happy, although i doubt the red sox do it)
angels DP partner with Wood is supposed to be the real deal too

im thinking the upper level prospects would be coming from the Red Sox because of what they are getting back in value.....
 

Kel Varnsen

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Arizona's Finest said:
Pedroia (now this would make me VERY happy, although i doubt the red sox do it)

:stupid: :bhiich:
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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I seriosuly doubt the Angels trade Santana with Byrd and Washburn likely on their way out of town. I'm guessing the Angels will give up three legitimate prospects: infielder, catcher, and pitcher. Red Sox would probably throw in lower level prospects.

Don't anticipate a lot of major prospects being thrown in this deal also should it happen (I doubt it does considering the Angels love affair with their prospects). Glaus' contract and injury problems take his value down while Manny's contract and declining OPS are going to drive many suitors away not to mention Manny's insistence to only play for a few teams.
 
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