The Defense of the Future

[Cheesebeef]

Right! Now you and Cheesefeet need to come up with a tie breaker.

I'll go as far as to say top 7 worst? how's that for the tie-breaker? a bet within a bet.

 

[desertdawg]

Top 7 worst? Opened my eyes, I can take some of that action.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Top 7 worst? Opened my eyes, I can take some of that action.

i thought there was a chance this d would be legendarily bad before the Toler injury. I see no reason why to jump off that ship.

 

[desertdawg]

i thought there was a chance this d would be legendarily bad before the Toler injury. I see no reason why to jump off that ship.

I think our offense alone will alleviate some of the pressure the defense was under last year, and I think they will start to shape up around mid-season and have some killer games towards the stretch. If we are one of the 7 worst in points allowed, it will suck because I won't see it as a talent issue, but more of a they didn't get Horton's scheme issue.

 

[kerouac9]

When Horton is watching from above, it's guys like Porter (who we re-signed for dirtcheap considering..) that are directing traffic. Porter knows the system, and when it's ran right Porter and everybody else will get clean runs at the QB. The secondary has to hold for this to happen, then we can get blitzhappy.

You're talking about coverage sacks. Sorry, but the fire-blitz scheme isn't predicated on coverage sacks, which is why Pittsburgh doesn't produce All Pro corners the way that the Jets or Tampa Bay does.

The sad fact of the matter is that Joey Porter can't defeat single blocks against the most pedestrian of offensive tackles. The best that you can do in pass rush is hope that your best players are put in one-on-one situations that they can then win. If Joey Porter can't win man-on-man matchups (and he can't), then the pass defense is over before it even begins.

Occasionally you can overload a side and get someone free, but it's rarely your primary blitzer (the guy that opposing offenses are concerned with)--it's usually someone like Mike Adams or Rashard Johnson.

If Joey Porter (and to a lesser but still significant extent Adrian Wilson) can't win one-on-one battles, it's going to be a trying season indeed when the defense is on the field.

As for whether or not Joey Porter is trying in these preseason games, I think that question is moot because we saw in 10 games last year that even when he's trying his hardest he's not able to win individual battles. He could when he was the free blitzer in Miami against some guys that had ability, but he's supposed to be the primary guy here.

 

[desertdawg]

You're talking about coverage sacks. Sorry, but the fire-blitz scheme isn't predicated on coverage sacks, which is why Pittsburgh doesn't produce All Pro corners the way that the Jets or Tampa Bay does.

The sad fact of the matter is that Joey Porter can't defeat single blocks against the most pedestrian of offensive tackles. The best that you can do in pass rush is hope that your best players are put in one-on-one situations that they can then win. If Joey Porter can't win man-on-man matchups (and he can't), then the pass defense is over before it even begins.

Occasionally you can overload a side and get someone free, but it's rarely your primary blitzer (the guy that opposing offenses are concerned with)--it's usually someone like Mike Adams or Rashard Johnson.

If Joey Porter (and to a lesser but still significant extent Adrian Wilson) can't win one-on-one battles, it's going to be a trying season indeed when the defense is on the field.

As for whether or not Joey Porter is trying in these preseason games, I think that question is moot because we saw in 10 games last year that even when he's trying his hardest he's not able to win individual battles. He could when he was the free blitzer in Miami against some guys that had ability, but he's supposed to be the primary guy here.

I was just saying I like the fact that Porter knows the system, and if he can help others learn and buy into it quicker he will have better opportunities at getting the "free pass" blitz you think (and your probably right) he needs to get to the QB. It's all about Horton in my eyes, we aren't bankrupt of talent. It's not roses, but it aint sludge either. Horton's system relies on the whole team doing it right, superstars or not.

 

[Catfish]

With all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on about how our defense is doomed, I maintain what I said in my earlier post. In a game, (that had more meaning than any of the other pre-season games), our defense, (despite only having played limited snaps together), acquitted itself well enough for me to believe that as the season progresses, we will do just fine. This WAS Phillip Rivers, and this was the San Diego offense. Both are more than solid, and we handled them quite well-----(and the coach even agreed with that in his post game presser).

 

[kerouac9]

I was just saying I like the fact that Porter knows the system, and if he can help others learn and buy into it quicker he will have better opportunities at getting the "free pass" blitz you think (and your probably right) he needs to get to the QB. It's all about Horton in my eyes, we aren't bankrupt of talent. It's not roses, but it aint sludge either. Horton's system relies on the whole team doing it right, superstars or not.

It's pretty close to "sludge". It's not like under Mac when we had very little NFL-caliber talent on both offense and defense. But Whis's roster on both sides of the ball is significantly less talented than the one he inherited from Denny Green.

Consistency of the defense is on Horton, but I think that if you read between the lines there's a lot more emphasis on hope that the players on the roster will outperform their past standards (the old guys and the pumping up of guys like Washington, Rhodes, R. Johnson, A.J. Jefferson) and that somewhere a transcendent talent will come up.

Hope is not a plan. The hope seems to be that the D keeps the O in the game. From Weeks 8 through 12 last year the D gave up 38, 27, 36, 31, and 27 points. Part of that was because the D had given up on Davis, but it wasn't like our defensive personnel have gotten that much better in the offseason.

The idea is that the offense will put enough pressure on the opposition to force mistakes that we'll be able to take advantage of, kind of like what the Packers did before Clay Matthews arrived. We'll use next year's first-round pick on a pass rush specialist (or maybe trade down and pick up a second-rounder and address OT and OLB in some order).

We're fortunate to be facing three low-wattage offenses in the first three games of the season. If we can somehow stop the run against Carolina and Washington, we could be in good shape. The defense will be asked to carry the team early in the year, especially with good pass rushers facing the Cards the first two games.

 

[Mulli]

Cards' D gave up 389 points in 2006. I predict Cards don't give up that many this year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

i thought there was a chance this d would be legendarily bad before the Toler injury. I see no reason why to jump off that ship.

I'll take whatever bets that cheese can't cover. We are going to be horrible.

 

[desertdawg]

It's pretty close to "sludge". It's not like under Mac when we had very little NFL-caliber talent on both offense and defense. But Whis's roster on both sides of the ball is significantly less talented than the one he inherited from Denny Green.

Consistency of the defense is on Horton, but I think that if you read between the lines there's a lot more emphasis on hope that the players on the roster will outperform their past standards (the old guys and the pumping up of guys like Washington, Rhodes, R. Johnson, A.J. Jefferson) and that somewhere a transcendent talent will come up.

Hope is not a plan. The hope seems to be that the D keeps the O in the game. From Weeks 8 through 12 last year the D gave up 38, 27, 36, 31, and 27 points. Part of that was because the D had given up on Davis, but it wasn't like our defensive personnel have gotten that much better in the offseason.

The idea is that the offense will put enough pressure on the opposition to force mistakes that we'll be able to take advantage of, kind of like what the Packers did before Clay Matthews arrived. We'll use next year's first-round pick on a pass rush specialist (or maybe trade down and pick up a second-rounder and address OT and OLB in some order).

We're fortunate to be facing three low-wattage offenses in the first three games of the season. If we can somehow stop the run against Carolina and Washington, we could be in good shape. The defense will be asked to carry the team early in the year, especially with good pass rushers facing the Cards the first two games.

Stopping the run is what scares me the most, but I do like the beginning of our schedule as well. Pre-season injuries to AW and Toler is going to hurt, but as long as the defense doesn't give up like last year I don't see us being in the top 7 for points allowed when the season ends.

 

[Mulli]

I'll take whatever bets that cheese can't cover. We are going to be horrible.

You say that every year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think our offense alone will alleviate some of the pressure the defense was under last year, and I think they will start to shape up around mid-season and have some killer games towards the stretch. If we are one of the 7 worst in points allowed, it will suck because I won't see it as a talent issue, but more of a they didn't get Horton's scheme issue.

I'll definitely see it as a talent issue. Out of our starting 4 LBers, only ONE is maybe starting material (Washington), and we have a completely untested secondary save for Rhodes. That's two bona-fide starters out of 8 past the D-line IMO. That's a recipe for utter disaster no matter how good the offense is (and it better be or this year will be pretty tough to watch).

 

[Cheesebeef]

With all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on about how our defense is doomed, I maintain what I said in my earlier post. In a game, (that had more meaning than any of the other pre-season games), our defense, (despite only having played limited snaps together), acquitted itself well enough for me to believe that as the season progresses, we will do just fine. This WAS Phillip Rivers, and this was the San Diego offense. Both are more than solid, and we handled them quite well-----(and the coach even agreed with that in his post game presser).

we were on pace to give up 34 points. That doesn't = D acquitting itself well to me.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You say that every year.

I'm more right than not.

 

[Mulli]

we were on pace to give up 34 points. That doesn't = D acquitting itself well to me.

How many did they give up in SD last year?

 

[Mulli]

I'm more right than not.

#brokenclock

 

[Cheesebeef]

How many did they give up in SD last year?

lol.

 

[Duckjake]

Since 2005 the Cards have ranked 26th,29th,27th,28th,14th, and 30th in points allowed.

Ironically the group that finished 14th is the one that gave up 90 points in just 6 quarters in the playoffs.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Since 2005 the Cards have ranked 26th,29th,27th,28th,14th, and 30th in points allowed.

Ironically the group that finished 14th is the one that gave up 90 points in just 6 quarters in the playoffs.

I like my odds!

Those #'s are terrifying, 5 out of the last 6 years we've had a bottom 5 defense, just pathetic. Mediocrity would be a massive accomplishment at this point.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

#brokenclock

#workingclock

 

[Duckjake]

I like my odds!

Those #'s are terrifying, 5 out of the last 6 years we've had a bottom 5 defense, just pathetic. Mediocrity would be a massive accomplishment at this point.

It's the Curse of Buddy Ryan. The Cards have finished bottom 10 in scoring defense 13 of the 15 years since Buddy was fired.

Well maybe it's the Coryell Curse. The Cards finished bottom 10 in scoring defense 12 of the 16 years before Buddy Ryan was hired.

But that's old history. What is really amazing and much more current is that the Cards allowed 426 points and went to the Super Bowl. And gave up 45 points in a playoff game and WON!

 

[Mulli]

It's the Curse of Buddy Ryan. The Cards have finished bottom 10 in scoring defense 13 of the 15 years since Buddy was fired.

Well maybe it's the Coryell Curse. The Cards finished bottom 10 in scoring defense 12 of the 16 years before Buddy Ryan was hired.

But that's old history. What is really amazing and much more current is that the Cards allowed 426 points and went to the Super Bowl. And gave up 45 points in a playoff game and WON!

this year is going to be different!

 

[Duckjake]

this year is going to be different!

You say that every year.

 

[40yearfan]

this year is going to be different!

You say that every year.

Yeah, but this year, Mulli really, really means it.