The Happy Crow Thread

[95pro]

I'd settle for this... decreasing NBA blackouts and the buyouts where players that are bought out can go to the elite markets.

Maybe the days for blackouts are over and make the games more accessible as Hoop Head suggests.

I'm not sure how you keep free agent players going to where they want to go after they are bought out. Maybe making bought out players not eligible for the playoffs would help. Also saying buyouts cannot occur after the trade deadline.

Or have a limit on the amount of bough out players that can go to a team? Or a player cant be bought out on the last year of his contract?

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't word it correctly and perhaps my assumption is incorrect but I think they become eligible as a waived player but only at their full contract amount rather their buyout number. Once they clear those waivers, they can then be signed for the minimum or whatever. I'm not that knowledgeable about contracts but I think that's how it goes. Nobody wants a Drummond at his full amount, a lot of teams would love to have him at the minimum.

This is how it works. Since the player is bought out and waived he can go to the team of his choice because he is a free agent.

It would be nice for other teams to have a chance to acquire his services but the player is free to go wherever he wants. The biggest frustration, at least for me, he usually ends up playing for an elite playoff team in a big market which gives a competitive advantage to that team.

 

[Mainstreet]

Or have a limit on the amount of bough out players that can go to a team? Or a player cant be bought out on the last year of his contract?

Both ideas might help but players in the the last year of their contract are usually the ones that are given buyouts.

If I were going to try to make it more fair I'd make it where players that are bought out are ineligible for the playoffs unless it's done before the trade deadline.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is how it works. Since the player is bought out and waived he can go to the team of his choice because he is a free agent.

It would be nice for other teams to have a chance to acquire his services but the player is free to go wherever he wants. The biggest frustration, at least for me, he usually ends up playing for an elite playoff team in a big market which gives a competitive advantage to that team.

I understand but the way it works isn't the way it was intended. It was intended to let players near the end of their career find a useful home. It wasn't intended to be a mechanism for a mid-career player to force his way to a better situation. It's a cap workaround that can benefit the player, the team he is leaving and the acquiring team but hurts the league in general.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Both ideas might help but players in the the last year of their contract are usually the ones that are given buyouts.

If I were going to try to make it more fair I'd make it where players that are bought out are ineligible for the playoffs unless it's done before the trade deadline.

Guys if you didn’t have a problem when the Suns were an elite team signing big buyout guys like Tim Thomas, or even Jalen Rose, snapping them up for runs when we were title contenders, it’s extremely hypocritical to decry the same thing now.

that also goes for the Suns signing guys like AC Green and Danny Manning to 1 year 1 million dollar wink wink deals to circumvent the cap back in the day.

 

[Mainstreet]

I understand but the way it works isn't the way it was intended. It was intended to let players near the end of their career find a useful home. It wasn't intended to be a mechanism for a mid-career player to force his way to a better situation. It's a cap workaround that can benefit the player, the team he is leaving and the acquiring team but hurts the league in general.

Maybe when a player is bought out he could be removed from the waiver process in certain situations or at least as we know it.

He could enter a free market where teams could bid on his services without having to pay the original contract amount. A road block for a lot of teams is that they do not want to pay the amount remaining on his contract. Perhaps the NBA could set this aside in buyouts or teams could apply for this option.

The player would likely get more money and lesser teams would likely be able to pay him more money.

 

[Mainstreet]

Guys if you didn’t have a problem when the Suns were an elite team signing big buyout guys like Tim Thomas, or even Jalen Rose, snapping them up for runs when we were title contenders, it’s extremely hypocritical to decry the same thing now.

that also goes for the Suns signing guys like AC Green and Danny Manning to 1 year 1 million dollar wink wink deals to circumvent the cap back in the day.

Because the Suns did it too, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. I'd like to see more parity going forward and preventing elite teams getting the best players in buyouts is a step in that direction.

I'd like to see the NBA work towards something like a free bidding process on players that are bought out.
It would require something different than the traditional buyout and waiver process.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Maybe when a player is bought out he could be removed from the waiver process in certain situations or at least as we know it.

He could enter a free market where teams could bid on his services without having to pay the original contract amount. A road block for a lot of teams is that they do not want to pay the amount remaining on his contract. Perhaps the NBA could set this aside in buyouts or teams could apply for this option.

The player would likely get more money and lesser teams would likely be able to pay him more money.

I think the simplest answer is to just do away with buyouts. Or limit the buyout to 3 million or something like that so that big contract players will be disinclined to accept it and even more importantly, unlikely to demand it. And it will still be there for the older veterans that are playing for teams that want to rebuild and focus on their younger guys. Regardless, it probably won't be re-visited until the next CBA comes up (2024?).

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the simplest answer is to just do away with buyouts. Or limit the buyout to 3 million or something like that so that big contract players will be disinclined to accept it and even more importantly, unlikely to demand it. And it will still be there for the older veterans that are playing for teams that want to rebuild and focus on their younger guys. Regardless, it probably won't be re-visited until the next CBA comes up (2024?).

I don't think teams doing buyouts are receiving big dollars back from the players they are buying them out. If a team gets even a couple million in a buyout that's still money they are saving.

In most cases I think the player that is bought out gives back something usually equivalent to the minimum salary or what he will receive from the team acquiring him. I'm sure there are exceptions but generally I think this is the way it works.

Maybe players making over a certain amount of money shouldn't be allowed to be bought out or they have to apply to the NBA for an exception to the waiver process where all the other teams can bid on him like in free agency without having to pay the original contract amount. This would likely return more money to the team buying the player out and put more money in the players pocket as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Because the Suns did it too, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. I'd like to see more parity going forward and preventing elite teams getting the best players in buyouts is a step in that direction.

I'd like to see the NBA work towards something like a free bidding process on players that are bought out.
It would require something different than the traditional buyout and waiver process.

you never complained about this while your team benefited from and only have when it negatively impacted your own team. That’s just pretty weak, IMO.

 

[mjb21aztd]

He’s been the anti-emmitt smith.

Haha on nfl films all times bust signed smith was top 5 i think....

 

[Mainstreet]

you never complained about this while your team benefited from and only have when it negatively impacted your own team. That’s just pretty weak, IMO.

Wow. I never knew Danny Manning and AC Green were buyouts. What do you call this?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Guys if you didn’t have a problem when the Suns were an elite team signing big buyout guys like Tim Thomas, or even Jalen Rose, snapping them up for runs when we were title contenders, it’s extremely hypocritical to decry the same thing now.

that also goes for the Suns signing guys like AC Green and Danny Manning to 1 year 1 million dollar wink wink deals to circumvent the cap back in the day.

Were they buyouts? I thought they were actually waived. Regardless, I have no problem with the Lakers adding a player that's gone through the normal waived process. I have a problem with big contract players being bought out and signed for pennies by the elite teams. We never used to see this used for players like Blake Griffin or Drummond. And I have just as much problem with Cleveland or Detroit being able to get out from under bad deals like this.

The need to abide by the cap and protect the integrity of it is much greater today then when the Suns and other teams paid lip service to it. Stern drew a line in the sand leading to the Minnesota scandal/punishment, comparing anyone's actions before that to today isn't reasonable IMO.

 

[Dan H]

AC, Danny, and Wayman Tisdale were all unrestricted free agents.

 

[AzStevenCal]

AC, Danny, and Wayman Tisdale were all unrestricted free agents.

Yeah, I think that comment was just mis-interpreted, nobody was trying to suggest that Manning or Green were anything but free agents. But CB's point was that we signed them with a promise to pay them more in the future, circumventing the intent of the rules. And it's true, we did. Same with Portland and several other franchises. Stern shut it down, warned everyone and then made an example of the T-Wolves when they not only did the same thing, they put it in writing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow. I never knew Danny Manning and AC Green were buyouts. What do you call this?

they weren’t buyouts. They were actually worse. When we were title contenders, they were given 1 year, one million dollar deals, as the BIGGEST FAs in back to back years with under the table contracts agreed to for the next season once the team got their Bird Rights under the system at the time. It was so egregiously obvious that we were cheating the salary cap, that the NBA changed their Bird rights rules.

and you never had one problem with that. You’ve actually stated as such back when you accused the Heat of “colluding” while the Suns rigged the game just as much if not more.

 

[Chaplin]

they weren’t buyouts. They were actually worse. When we were title contenders, they were given 1 year, one million dollar deals, as the BIGGEST FAs in back to back years with under the table contracts agreed to for the next season once the team got their Bird Rights under the system at the time. It was so egregiously obvious that we were cheating the salary cap, that the NBA changed their Bird rights rules.

and you never had one problem with that. You’ve actually stated as such back when you accused the Heat of “colluding” while the Suns rigged the game just as much if not more.

That’s quite a memory you have.

 

[Mainstreet]

they weren’t buyouts. They were actually worse. When we were title contenders, they were given 1 year, one million dollar deals, as the BIGGEST FAs in back to back years with under the table contracts agreed to for the next season once the team got their Bird Rights under the system at the time. It was so egregiously obvious that we were cheating the salary cap, that the NBA changed their Bird rights rules.

and you never had one problem with that. You’ve actually stated as such back when you accused the Heat of “colluding” while the Suns rigged the game just as much if not more.

The problem is you have taken a discussion about buyouts and turned into something else.

I even acknowledge the Suns did it:

"Because the Suns did it too, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it."

If something limits competitiveness, it should be corrected at least as much as possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That’s quite a memory you have.

Yeah, I rarely challenge cheese’s memory. His actions? All the time. His memory? Not so much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The problem is you have taken a discussion about buyouts and turned into something else.

I even acknowledge the Suns did it:

"Because the Suns did it too, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it."

If something limits competitiveness, it should be corrected at least as much as possible.

His point was that you weren’t complaining when a loophole provided the suns an advantage but now that a similar loophole is seemingly benefitting our competition you’re complaining about it. The funny thing is that I was inclined to be frustrated with buyouts too until cheese posted that. Then I realized, yup, it’s sour grapes on my part. We’ve benefitted from leveraging similar loopholes in the past. Just have to hope our front office is good/clever enough to identify and utilize whatever loophole comes next that will provide us a competitive advantage.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I rarely challenge cheese’s memory. His actions? All the time. His memory? Not so much.

lol. This is fair.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That’s quite a memory you have.

you’d be stunned at the amount of completely useless information that stays in my head. As Ouchie implied, that part of my brain probably smushes the decision making part of my brain to a much smaller amount than is probably necessary to survive.

 

[Mainstreet]

His point was that you weren’t complaining when a loophole provided the suns an advantage but now that a similar loophole is seemingly benefitting our competition you’re complaining about it. The funny thing is that I was inclined to be frustrated with buyouts too until cheese posted that. Then I realized, yup, it’s sour grapes on my part. We’ve benefitted from leveraging similar loopholes in the past. Just have to hope our front office is good/clever enough to identify and utilize whatever loophole comes next that will provide us a competitive advantage.

When is it fair to talk about buyouts providing an unfair competitive advantage?

I don't understand why it's not a relevant conversation if we admit the Suns have benefited from similar circumstances. The idea is getting it right going forward.

 

[Chaplin]

you’d be stunned at the amount of completely useless information that stays in my head. As Ouchie implied, that part of my brain probably smushes the decision making part of my brain to a much smaller amount than is probably necessary to survive.

I’m like that with useless trivia but I wouldn’t remember someone’s opinion about something from 30 years ago from someone I’ve never even meant! That’s quite impressive.

 

[GatorAZ]

Didn’t Jerry overpay an injured Manning the next year in good faith for him ring chasing?