The Happy Crow Thread

[Cheesebeef]

I’m like that with useless trivia but I wouldn’t remember someone’s opinion about something from 30 years ago from someone I’ve never even meant! That’s quite impressive.

trust me, I wish I had better impressive brain skills.

As evidenced by that last sentence.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When is it fair to talk about buyouts providing an unfair competitive advantage?

I don't understand why it's not a relevant conversation if we admit the Suns have benefited from similar circumstances. The idea is getting it right going forward.

It’s not that it’s not relevant. He’s just pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about it now verses enjoying it previously.

 

[Mainstreet]

It’s not that it’s not relevant. He’s just pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about it now verses enjoying it previously.

The topic was buyouts. Debating the topic not the poster is the right way to do it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The topic was buyouts. Debating the topic not the poster is the right way to do it.

Eh, it’s maybe a bit of both, no? Considering I was originally in the same frame of mind you are in regards to the buyouts it made me think of the loophole through a different perspective. Changed my mind. Never felt like it was an attack. Unless pointing out past facts is considered an attack on the board these days.

 

[Hoop Head]

Back when the Suns got Tim Thomas, buyouts weren't nearly as prevalent and the caliber of player who was bought was lower. Sure, the Suns benefited in the past but to imply the buyout market is the same now as it was 15 years ago is ignoring how the league has changed. Its also ok for someone's feeling on it to change over time, it has been well over 10 years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Back when the Suns got Tim Thomas, buyouts weren't nearly as prevalent and the caliber of player who was bought was lower. Sure, the Suns benefited in the past but to imply the buyout market is the same now as it was 15 years ago is ignoring how the league has changed. Its also ok for someone's feeling on it to change over time, it has been well over 10 years.

disagree. Tim Thomas was pretty much equal or better than Blake Griffin, who everyone thought was dead as dirt and most nights still is. Kurt Thomas was as well. PJ Brown was a lynchpin for the Celtics title team, same as James Posey as a buyout guy for Miami. It’s not like Aldridge was still a star. He was averaging 13 and 4 and was benched because he played no defense. The only guy who’s really a major impact player is Drummond.

and I get if your mind has changed over ten years... but to me, it looks like minds have changed because we’re not the beneficiary of what’s changed... which is we’re not yet looked at as one of the elite franchises/sure fire contenders.

I mean, I didn’t see a lot of people ripping on this BEFORE Aldridge signed with the Nets and Drummond with the Lakers. Some people were talking about how great that would be. Would they have still complained if they signed with us? After all, what’s the difference? They would have been signing with one of the title contenders. If you build it, they will come. It was that way ten years ago and still is. The Nets, who as of three years ago were a joke are proof of that.

 

[taz02]

Just because the suns stretched/broke the rules and we cheered doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be changed. In fact, the best time to change the rules is after you've already taken advantage of it.

 

[AZCrazy]

The lack of ratings has a few causes. Nobody's gone to a game for more than a year, it diminishes fan interest. People are struggling financially, and frivolous things like sports can be put on the shelf for a long while. The players individually are as good as ever, but the concept of 'team' is really a joke anymore. The best players seem to change teams every few years, no real fan loyalty is developed.

You know who Magic played for. You know who Jordan played for. You know who Isaiah played for. You know who Bird played for. And Kobe, and Duncan...... You know who you grew up with. They had fiercely loyal fans. Sure some guys moved around, but it was the exception. Lately its all different.

Who did Shaq play for? Lebron? Durant? Harden? Kahwi? They played for everyone. Think their former fans still adore them?

It just affects fan interest to a greater degree than the NBA masters think it does.

 

[Mainstreet]

There are two parts of the buyout discussion. There shouldn't be but some want to personalize it.

The first part of it is being a fan and enjoying good things when they come to your team. I was thrilled when Tim Thomas came to the Suns but I wasn't very wasn't very familiar with the buyout system back then.

At the time, it kind of seemed crazy that a good player like Thomas could be bought out by Chicago and come to the Suns as a free agent. Did I enjoy it, of course. I think almost every Suns fan was thrilled especially since the Suns lost Amare for the playoffs.

However, that doesn't mean I can't look back and see how other teams and fans might view it as unfair.

The second part is being objective and analyze a current problem at hand without it being personalized. I view the buyout system in the NBA as a problem because it tends to benefit the elite teams and markets. We are talking about it now is because it's happening now and it's more prevalent than it was before.

Sure it effects the Suns but it also effects other teams as well. Actually for Suns fans it is sort of a refresher course because they haven't been in the playoffs for 10 years. Except now the problem has become much worse than it was a decade ago.

 

[AzStevenCal]

His point was that you weren’t complaining when a loophole provided the suns an advantage but now that a similar loophole is seemingly benefitting our competition you’re complaining about it. The funny thing is that I was inclined to be frustrated with buyouts too until cheese posted that. Then I realized, yup, it’s sour grapes on my part. We’ve benefitted from leveraging similar loopholes in the past. Just have to hope our front office is good/clever enough to identify and utilize whatever loophole comes next that will provide us a competitive advantage.

I think it's possible for a fan to like something that benefits his team while still recognizing it's bad for the league. And the buyout process is being used now for multiple years and big contracts, something that was never the case before, nor was it the intention when the rule was first put into play. The fear (rumors/speculation) that shoe companies and agents are involved in making these big dollar moves feasible is also of concern.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it's possible for a fan to like something that benefits his team while still recognizing it's bad for the league. And the buyout process is being used now for multiple years and big contracts, something that was never the case before, nor was it the intention when the rule was first put into play. The fear (rumors/speculation) that shoe companies and agents are involved in making these big dollar moves feasible is also of concern.

Oh I agree. It’s like when Paul does the swing through to get a foul. You can tell with his exaggerated motion it’s not an actual basketball move. It’s just an attempt to get a foul. And I can’t stand it and believe it should be removed. But until it is I hope we have someone (Paul) who is savvy enough to gain advantage for us with it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh I agree. It’s like when Paul does the swing through to get a foul. You can tell with his exaggerated motion it’s not an actual basketball move. It’s just an attempt to get a foul. And I can’t stand it and believe it should be removed. But until it is I hope we have someone (Paul) who is savvy enough to gain advantage for us with it.

Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised if CP3 doesn't like it. He is just enough of a competitor that if it works, he is going to use it. If they get rid of it, he will find some other way to gain an advantage. Gaming the system is what smart competitors do.