The Latest on Rosen

[BW52]

Man I think you’re missing the mark on what Murray was likely to have done last year. I’m not saying he would’ve been good. I’m not even saying he would’ve been a lot better than josh. But the one thing that he inarguably has over josh is his athleticism. At a minimum that would have been a crucial differentiator behind last year’s offensive line. Again, not saying he would’ve been markedly better than josh, but just ignoring his inherent advantage over josh in an area that wouldn’t been crucial last year is just purposefully ignoring relevant data to try to win an argument.

You are missing the point that Rosen had much more starting experience than Murray and it was rough for Rosen.So how would Murray and his only 1 year of starting experience factored into the equation? That is something to consider also IMHO.You can`t factor one thing without thinking about the other.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you want to chance drafting a small short QB who played in a crappy defensive conference and only decided to go "all-in" on Football 2 months ago and turn the franchise over to him and discard the 1st rd Qb drafted last year like yesterdays trash? Basing your opinions on the SPECULATION that Murray can come in and be QBOF in a much tougher,better,faster,stronger,quicker,smarter level of competition that he faced before?SO basically you aren`t doing anything different than speculating,hoping,wishing,projecting that Murray will succeed where very few QBs of his size and stature have.You Murray people are hoping for the exception rather than the rule.

I would venture to guess that every franchise QB in the history of the NFL has been the exception to the rule. That’s what makes them franchise QBs among the thousands of small boys that grow up playing QB through their lives hoping to become a starter in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris-since you are a big stat guy then let`s see a list of all the successful 5`10 QBs in the NFL?Dig that stat up for us.

Omg! Murray’s short?!?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you think that because Mayfield was good that means Murray will be or can be?

No, but I think it negates the whole “Murray only succeeded because he played in a conference with no defense and superior teammates and that won’t translate to the nfl” argument.

 

[BW52]

And it seems ignoring stats and what we saw in the field last year are gospel to you. The truth is, I don’t believe we know what we have in Rosen. Last year was a terrible barometer for him. But we can’t argue that he in any way elevated the play of those around him or the team. We just can’t. They sucked. He sucked last year. Those are facts. Does it mean he will suck for his career? No. Not in the least. But we can neither ignore what happened last year nor project that it’s a certainty that it’s indicatuve of his future okay. It’s a factor though . . . ignore facts at your own peril.

try again.I am not ignoring the facts.I am saying basing a opinion on a bad situation is very premature and downright foolish.Dumping a top pick without giving him a chance to succeed is bordering on foolishness IMO.Hellfire..even NKemdiche has gotten 3 years to see if he will be worth a damn.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you think that because Mayfield was good that means Murray will be or can be?

I honestly don’t know if Murray is going to be terrible, good or great. I’m frankly torn on drafting him. But I think there are some poorly constructed arguments being made against him. And frankly for him as well (like “he win the heisman so he’ll be awesome”). I poke holes in those.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are missing the point that Rosen had much more starting experience than Murray and it was rough for Rosen.So how would Murray and his only 1 year of starting experience factored into the equation? That is something to consider also IMHO.You can`t factor one thing without thinking about the other.

That’s true. His limited starts is certainly a factor in all this. But I think it’s a relatively limited factor when you see someone like Trubisky succeed in his second year after having had only a year of collegiate experience.

 

[BW52]

No, but I think it negates the whole “Murray only succeeded because he played in a conference with no defense and superior teammates and that won’t translate to the nfl” argument.

Doesn`t negate squat.Just because Mayfield succeeded doesn`t mean Murray will.Specualtion and projection is what it is.Nothing is in stone.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

try again.I am not ignoring the facts.I am saying basing a opinion on a bad situation is very premature and downright foolish.Dumping a top pick without giving him a chance to succeed is bordering on foolishness IMO.Hellfire..even NKemdiche has gotten 3 years to see if he will be worth a damn.

Not if you think something superior is available, particularly at the QB position.

 

[BW52]

That’s true. His limited starts is certainly a factor in all this. But I think it’s a relatively limited factor when you see someone like Trubisky succeed in his second year after having had only a year of collegiate experience.

Second year......Rosen should get a second year.

 

[BW52]

Not if you think something superior is available, particularly at the QB position.

That's your view.Not mine

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Doesn`t negate squat.Just because Mayfield succeeded doesn`t mean Murray will.Specualtion and projection is what it is.Nothing is in stone.

You’re right. Each player is different. Don’t know how it will translate. But it certainly makes it foolish to make such a blanket statement when in just the year prior a smallish QB, plying in the same exact system, with similar if not exactly the same talent, in exactly the same league, ended up having a strong experience at the nfl level.

And btw, your argument cuts both ways. Just becasue mayfield had a good rookie campaign doesn’t mean that Murray. Also just because many short QBs haven’t succeeded doesn’t mean Murray won’t. Ah ha . . . aaahhh haaaaaa.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Second year......Rosen should get a second year.

Moving the goalposts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's your view.Not mine

I’ve already said I’m undecided if Murray is superior to Rosen. But if someone (and the team) thinks he’s superior, I can understand the move.

 

[BW52]

Moving the goalposts.

you are the one who said Trubisky succeeded his second year.

 

[Russ Smith]

I’ve already said I’m undecided if Murray is superior to Rosen. But if someone (and the team) thinks he’s superior, I can understand the move.

That's kind of where I am now to be honest. I'd keep Rosen, take Bosa unless someone gives us a huge trade offer for the pick. But we went all in on Kliff when we hired him so IMO might as well trust in Kliff. If he thinks he can fix this offense better with Murray and Josh, I guess I have to trust he's right.

So Josh to the Giants we maybe get someone like Oliver there if we're lucky. And we just trust that Murray is good enough to stay healthy the next 10 years avoiding Bosa with the 49ers since you can almost be positive that's who they will pick.

 

[BW52]

You’re right. Each player is different. Don’t know how it will translate. But it certainly makes it foolish to make such a blanket statement when in just the year prior a smallish QB, plying in the same exact system, with similar if not exactly the same talent, in exactly the same league, ended up having a strong experience at the nfl level.

And btw, your argument cuts both ways. Just becasue mayfield had a good rookie campaign doesn’t mean that Murray. Also just because many short QBs haven’t succeeded doesn’t mean Murray won’t. Ah ha . . . aaahhh haaaaaa.

Its possible..but NFL history says otherwise.Once again Murray fans are expecting the exception rather than the rule.As I stated many times before.My preference is keep Rosen and let KK work with him and draft the best defensive talent with the number 1 pick.IMHO that's the safer route.My preference.

 

[Zeno]

My whole argument for keeping Rosen and not drafting Murray, I don't think Murray is a sure thing, he isn't in the class of Manning or Luck. He isn't a sure thing enough to dump Rosen for (who still has all the tools you want in a QB and prototypical size) after 1 season, to me it makes more sense if we keep Rosen & draft defense at #1 (or trade down for a haul of picks).

Rosen & Bosa/Williams is better than Murray, a second round pick and $8 million in dead cap space.

 

[BW52]

I’ve already said I’m undecided if Murray is superior to Rosen. But if someone (and the team) thinks he’s superior, I can understand the move.

I can see that .It could happen.Won`t like it but I guess we got to trust KK and SK.

 

[POISON]

No, but I think it negates the whole “Murray only succeeded because he played in a conference with no defense and superior teammates and that won’t translate to the nfl” argument.

I recall Mahomes playing in the same crappy conference at Texas Tech and is dominating in the NFL.

 

[BW52]

My whole argument for keeping Rosen and not drafting Murray, I don't think Murray is a sure thing, he isn't in the class of Manning or Luck. He isn't a sure thing enough to dump Rosen for (who still has all the tools you want in a QB and prototypical size) after 1 season, to me it makes more sense if we keep Rosen & draft defense at #1 (or trade down for a haul of picks).

Rosen & Bosa/Williams is better than Murray, a second round pick and $8 million in dead cap space.

Keep preaching brother

 

[BW52]

I recall Mahomes playing in the same crappy conference at Texas Tech and is dominating in the NFL.

Mahomes was the 1st BIG 12 QB to win a playoff game .

Seneca Wallace,Koy Detmer,Brad Smith,Chase Daniel,Garrett Gilbert,Reggie McNeal,Mike BishopVince YOUNG,RG3,zRyan Tannehill,Blane Gabbert. I recall Colt McCoy,Josh White,Kliff Kingsbury,
just some more BIG12 QBs

 

[Ronin]

not to get off track here but I thought Blaine Gabbert played for Mizzou and the SEC. I could be wrong...

 

[Buckybird]

LMAO at your Murray homerism.

I think I’ve been very fair & rational in the reasons I would take Murray. I haven’t been here everyday or even regularly saying he’s the be all end all. And not once have I bashed Rosen nor have I soured on him as a player either unlike most here are doing with Murray & the name calling. Grow up

 

[Buckybird]

Mahomes was the 1st BIG 12 QB to win a playoff game .

Seneca Wallace,Koy Detmer,Brad Smith,Chase Daniel,Garrett Gilbert,Reggie McNeal,Mike BishopVince YOUNG,RG3,zRyan Tannehill,Blane Gabbert. I recall Colt McCoy,Josh White,Kliff Kingsbury,
just some more BIG12 QBs

And there’s another on the verge of doing it as well