The Latest On Tanking

[Garthshort]

I know that many on this Board have said that Arizona is tanking, and usually add, so that we can get Caleb Williams. And many in the national media have jumped on board, even to the point of one ESPN guy saying that fans should not buy tickets because the team doesn't want to try to win.

Every year there is a team ranked at or near #32, but I don't remember them being accused of tanking (usually). So, I'm not sure why we are being singled out. Surely, it can't be that we released Colt McCoy. I understand that our season can be described as, "A Perfect Storm". We were bad last year, our starting QB is injured and we have a new coaching staff and front office.

I'm sure the team won't be good this year, and I think of Detroit, Cleveland and the Jets, who had many years of futility, but don't remember them being accused of tanking. Nor do I remember media guys telling fans to stay home. So what am I missing?

Hopefully, replies don't include, "Because we are".

 

[TheCardFan]

The "latest on tanking" includes no new information?

Do we need another thread about this...what am I missing?

 

[Garthshort]

The "latest on tanking" includes no new information?

Do we need another thread about this...what am I missing?

Not sure what you're missing. I did ask a question and hope that someone might have an answer. I guess you don't. No problem with that as I don't either.

P.S. I did try to reply to a Tanking thread and went back about three pages of threads and couldn't find one. So, for me this was faster.

 

[football karma]

i think every year when a hot college QB is coming out, the teams near the bottom are all suspected of tanking.
remember "suck for Luck". "tank for Tua" etc.

Its a lazy dog bites man story that writers can crank out to make content

For your average, lets say, NY Jets fan that would never care about the Cardinals otherwise -- its something to click and feel better about your teams chances

 

[Chopper0080]

I know that many on this Board have said that Arizona is tanking, and usually add, so that we can get Caleb Williams. And many in the national media have jumped on board, even to the point of one ESPN guy saying that fans should not buy tickets because the team doesn't want to try to win.

Every year there is a team ranked at or near #32, but I don't remember them being accused of tanking (usually). So, I'm not sure why we are being singled out. Surely, it can't be that we released Colt McCoy. I understand that our season can be described as, "A Perfect Storm". We were bad last year, our starting QB is injured and we have a new coaching staff and front office.

I'm sure the team won't be good this year, and I think of Detroit, Cleveland and the Jets, who had many years of futility, but don't remember them being accused of tanking. Nor do I remember media guys telling fans to stay home. So what am I missing?

Hopefully, replies don't include, "Because we are".

If it is a honest question, here is the answer.

Didn't re-sign two of it's 10 best players on the roster as free agents when the roster was already bad. (Allen and Murphy)

Didn't add any significant outside FAs when the roster was bad.

Traded back in the draft, passing up a pass rusher for an offensive lineman. (Will Anderson)

Cut one of it's 10 best players without getting any compensation in return. (Hopkins)

Traded a former top 10 pick for a 7th round pick. (Simmons)

Cut the starting QB after the last game of the preseason to create a battle between a 5th round rookie and a guy who has not practiced with the team all year. Two weeks before the first game of the season. (McCoy)

Those are not moves teams generally make that are trying to win football games. People on here dismiss the idea because they believe it is part of a "master plan". However, that is what tanking is. Losing by design.

 

[Garthshort]

JMO:
1. I assume you mean D Hop and Allen (??). Would you consider that a sound move?
2. Understand that there is no sound way to disprove a negative. But did you have any FA's in mind?
3. Time will tell whether Paris or Anderson will be the better Pro. Both play very important positions. But even the 'haters' on this Board say that next year's draft will be stronger than this year's.
4. Who is the player that you're talking about?
5. Simmons was a major disappointment. Are you saying that we should have kept him or should have gotten more for him?
6. Doubt very much that there is a battle for starting QB. People (Coaches/FO) who know a lot more about FB than I do and probably than you do, know that Dobbs will be the starter. Hopefully, they think that in time Tune can be a starting QB. If we had gone with Colt, do you think that would have kept people from talking about tanking. It is possible that coaches saw a decline in Colt's play. Maybe age or injury?

 

[GatorAZ]

This is a dead money/throwaway season. Monti sold it to Bidwill when he was hired. We’re one of the worst teams in the league last year and got better and maybe one positional group (OL). Embrace thy tanketh.

 

[Chopper0080]

JMO:
1. I assume you mean D Hop and Allen (??). Would you consider that a sound move?
2. Understand that there is no sound way to disprove a negative. But did you have any FA's in mind?
3. Time will tell whether Paris or Anderson will be the better Pro. Both play very important positions. But even the 'haters' on this Board say that next year's draft will be stronger than this year's.
4. Who is the player that you're talking about?
5. Simmons was a major disappointment. Are you saying that we should have kept him or should have gotten more for him?
6. Doubt very much that there is a battle for starting QB. People (Coaches/FO) who know a lot more about FB than I do and probably than you do, know that Dobbs will be the starter. Hopefully, they think that in time Tune can be a starting QB. If we had gone with Colt, do you think that would have kept people from talking about tanking. It is possible that coaches saw a decline in Colt's play. Maybe age or injury?

This is the issue...you look at this through the lens that these are justified moves because you are biased. It is ok, we all are. Others view these moves as intentional vs incompetent.

Here is an example.

You say Allen and Murphy were let go because they cost too much or they didn't want to re-sign here. Football fans say that teams should re-sign their best players and the Cardinals intentionally let them go. They don't view it through the lens of the Cardinals are a bad franchise and it's own players don't want to re-sign here. Or that a NFL team would not want to lock up it's best CB and DL who are both under 25.

 

[Chopper0080]

Regarding Colt McCoy.

Impartial football fans don't view cutting the starting QB in favor of a player added to the roster two days prior as a move of a team trying to win. Specifically when it is two weeks before the season starts.

You want to argue context but an impartial fan argues "what winning team does that".

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don't think we're tanking for any specific draft pick. We'd have to know what we have and it appears the jury is still out

Regardless, we will have a lot of valuable draft capital. If we don't land the #1 pick but want Caleb, Monti could have the pieces to make it happen but it all adult diapers

 

[Vacard]

If it is a honest question, here is the answer.

Didn't re-sign two of it's 10 best players on the roster as free agents when the roster was already bad. (Allen and Murphy)

Didn't add any significant outside FAs when the roster was bad.

Traded back in the draft, passing up a pass rusher for an offensive lineman. (Will Anderson)

Cut one of it's 10 best players without getting any compensation in return. (Hopkins)

Traded a former top 10 pick for a 7th round pick. (Simmons)

Cut the starting QB after the last game of the preseason to create a battle between a 5th round rookie and a guy who has not practiced with the team all year. Two weeks before the first game of the season. (McCoy)

Those are not moves teams generally make that are trying to win football games. People on here dismiss the idea because they believe it is part of a "master plan". However, that is what tanking is. Losing by design.

Then why we didn’t trade Buddha?

 

[Garthshort]

Regarding Colt McCoy.

Impartial football fans don't view cutting the starting QB in favor of a player added to the roster two days prior as a move of a team trying to win. Specifically when it is two weeks before the season starts.

You want to argue context but an impartial fan argues "what winning team does that".

Other than Cardinals' fans, I doubt if too many know who Allen and Murphy are. But, if you think that the team is tanking, I'll close by saying you're entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think this thread is on the level. I don't know why we'd be encouraged to join this debate again when the conversation in many, many threads have been about taking/intentionally non-competitive.

That said, I think the tanking discourse hints that the public believes the front office and coaching staff are smart. No one can look at the offseason moves we've made and believe that our main objective was to build a team that's competitive in 2023. So either you had stupid people trying to compete or smart people trying not to compete.

Houston was looked at as a stupid franchise, so they were treated as unserious people, not active tankers.

Many here believe that Monti and Gannon are being dishonest when they say that "every move we make is driven by helping the Arizona Cardinals win." That's just not true.

We entered 2023 free agency with top 10 cap space and exited it worse than when we came in.

We drafted two players in our top three picks who were going to be injured through the offseason program.

None of these are moves highlighting a team that wants to compete.

Even people like @Krangodnzr were saying that maybe we'd bring in someone like Rock Ya Sin to help the secondary. Never happened.

 

[PJ1]

Other than Cardinals' fans, I doubt if too many know who Allen and Murphy are. But, if you think that the team is tanking, I'll close by saying you're entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.

But the Broncos and Vikings sure did.

 

[keith wenzel]

What if, the coaching staff/front office really likes Kyler as they say they do and our pick is top two and the Texans pick is also top two can you imagine the draft haul you can get with the generational qbs available with the qb needy teams below us in the draft. Not bad place to be. This team was not going to be very good with said players we let walk so I am willing to see how this plays out this year

 

[Goldfield]

I don't think this thread is on the level. I don't know why we'd be encouraged to join this debate again when the conversation in many, many threads have been about taking/intentionally non-competitive.

That said, I think the tanking discourse hints that the public believes the front office and coaching staff are smart. No one can look at the offseason moves we've made and believe that our main objective was to build a team that's competitive in 2023. So either you had stupid people trying to compete or smart people trying not to compete.

Houston was looked at as a stupid franchise, so they were treated as unserious people, not active tankers.

Many here believe that Monti and Gannon are being dishonest when they say that "every move we make is driven by helping the Arizona Cardinals win." That's just not true.

We entered 2023 free agency with top 10 cap space and exited it worse than when we came in.

We drafted two players in our top three picks who were going to be injured through the offseason program.

None of these are moves highlighting a team that wants to compete.

Even people like @Krangodnzr were saying that maybe we'd bring in someone like Rock Ya Sin to help the secondary. Never happened.

These are this type of posts that make you an important poster around here. It’s refreshing.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think this thread is on the level. I don't know why we'd be encouraged to join this debate again when the conversation in many, many threads have been about taking/intentionally non-competitive.

That said, I think the tanking discourse hints that the public believes the front office and coaching staff are smart. No one can look at the offseason moves we've made and believe that our main objective was to build a team that's competitive in 2023. So either you had stupid people trying to compete or smart people trying not to compete.

Houston was looked at as a stupid franchise, so they were treated as unserious people, not active tankers.

Many here believe that Monti and Gannon are being dishonest when they say that "every move we make is driven by helping the Arizona Cardinals win." That's just not true.

We entered 2023 free agency with top 10 cap space and exited it worse than when we came in.

We drafted two players in our top three picks who were going to be injured through the offseason program.

None of these are moves highlighting a team that wants to compete.

Even people like @Krangodnzr were saying that maybe we'd bring in someone like Rock Ya Sin to help the secondary. Never happened.

This is spot on.

 

[gmartin]

I know that many on this Board have said that Arizona is tanking, and usually add, so that we can get Caleb Williams. And many in the national media have jumped on board, even to the point of one ESPN guy saying that fans should not buy tickets because the team doesn't want to try to win.

Every year there is a team ranked at or near #32, but I don't remember them being accused of tanking (usually). So, I'm not sure why we are being singled out. Surely, it can't be that we released Colt McCoy. I understand that our season can be described as, "A Perfect Storm". We were bad last year, our starting QB is injured and we have a new coaching staff and front office.

I'm sure the team won't be good this year, and I think of Detroit, Cleveland and the Jets, who had many years of futility, but don't remember them being accused of tanking. Nor do I remember media guys telling fans to stay home. So what am I missing?

Hopefully, replies don't include, "Because we are".

I don't believe they are tanking, maybe they saw McCoy couldn't get enough velocity on the ball. Some people on here and elsewhere think they know more than the coaches who see the players everyday.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't believe they are tanking, maybe they saw McCoy couldn't get enough velocity on the ball. Some people on here and elsewhere think they know more than the coaches who see the players everyday.

Here is the thing. If you believe Monti and Gannon spent this offseason making moves to try to win as many games in 2023 as possible, then they are incompetent.

 

[Dan H]

Many here believe that Monti and Gannon are being dishonest when they say that "every move we make is driven by helping the Arizona Cardinals win." That's just not true.

I disagree.

They never promised an instant turnaround. Cleaning the dead wood off the salary cap and setting us up to have a great draft in 2024 (on top of what looks like a solid 2023 draft) WILL help the team win in the future and set us up for sustained success.

 

[Garthshort]

But the Broncos and Vikings sure did.

And after the way our center handled Allen in PS game #1, the Broncos wished they didn't. And they overpaid him as well. But thanks for NOT using the word fans.

 

[Garthshort]

Here is the thing. If you believe Monti and Gannon spent this offseason making moves to try to win as many games in 2023 as possible, then they are incompetent.

That is the advantage/disadvantage of being a fan. They only worry about today, and never consider tomorrow.

 

[Chopper0080]

I disagree.

They never promised an instant turnaround. Cleaning the dead wood off the salary cap and setting us up to have a great draft in 2024 (on top of what looks like a solid 2023 draft) WILL help the team win in the future and set us up for sustained success.

That is like a grade school argument.

"Every move we make is driven by helping the Arizona Cardinals win."

Well, how do these moves help us win?

"We didn't say win THIS year."

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree.

They never promised an instant turnaround. Cleaning the dead wood off the salary cap and setting us up to have a great draft in 2024 (on top of what looks like a solid 2023 draft) WILL help the team win in the future and set us up for sustained success.

Are you saying we should...


....


Trust the process?

 

[Metcalf Rules]

It figures, the year I finally get a ticket to Cardinal game, October 8 against the Bengals, and the team is in tank mode! Oh well, I'll always love the Cardinals and plan on having a good time anyway! We are going to a Pink/Brandi Carlile concert the next night.. and I don't think they're tanking!