The Luka Report

[Phrazbit]

Doncic was selected 3rd, he was then traded to the team picking 5th. Any notion that Doncic would have been picked first if not for Sarver meddling with Ayton does not jive with reality.

 

[SirStefan32]

I have no idea where Sarver stood on this issue (none of us know), but Ayton is a prototypical McD player. Important disclaimer here- I like Ayton, and I am NOT suggesting he is a bust like the other two I am going to name. I am strictly speaking about their built, athleticism, etc. In those terms, Ayton is a Center version of Chriss and Jackson, two of the other McD picks. I can see James Jones preferring Luka over Ayton, but I don't see McD doing the same thing. It's possible that McD and Sarver were in agreement, but I just don't see McD preferring Luka and being overruled by Sarver on this one. If anything, I think it's more likely that Sarver and Jones preferred Doncic, but McD preferred Ayton, so they let him draft Ayton. Either way, it's pure speculation, but I find more logic in that scenario than I do in the "Sarver wanted Ayton because of where he went to school" theory.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And I believe you're mistaken. I can't tell you how many times I read how Sarver was going to screw us all over for a chance to draft a cash cow. I have no inside knowledge and am left with following the bread crumbs; the same is true for you regardless of how much smoke you think you've seen.

i was reading everything under the sun about what we were going to do with that pick and was HEAVILY pro-Ayton and never saw anything like the above mention or even speculated on any source in the media, including within Arizona. The only place I ever remember anything like the above was HERE, by @Chris_Sanders. And he said it over and over again, but that was one fan's wild speculation. where else did you see anything like the above?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yep I only have connect the dots conjecture.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yep I only have connect the dots conjecture.

note. that wasn't a call-out on you Chris. Just brought you up because that was the only place I remembering hearing that. maybe Gambo blabbed about it a couple times also, but the idea that the talk was widespread that saver wanted Luka cause he was a "cash-cow" doesn't jog any kind of memory in my head.

 

[AzStevenCal]

i was reading everything under the sun about what we were going to do with that pick and was HEAVILY pro-Ayton and never saw anything like the above mention or even speculated on any source in the media, including within Arizona. The only place I ever remember anything like the above was HERE, by @Chris_Sanders. And he said it over and over again, but that was one fan's wild speculation. where else did you see anything like the above?

RealGM and at least one of the Facebook Suns fan pages. And I've seen it from fans almost everywhere including within the past few months. Bloggers and on-line sports writers and podcasters (NBA Wraparound comes to mind as one that talked about it more than once) have either mentioned it directly or it's come up in response to their comments. I honestly can't think of a sports related site I've read or listened to that didn't at least discuss it as speculation.

You mention Chris Sanders and I do remember his comments but I'd already heard about the Sarver trip on RGM a few days before he brought it to this board. There was a lot of speculation on other sites when it happened that paralleled what Chris thought.

The majority always believed we were taking Ayton but that's not in question here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

RealGM and at least one of the Facebook Suns fan pages. And I've seen it from fans almost everywhere including within the past few months. Bloggers and on-line sports writers and podcasters (NBA Wraparound comes to mind as one that talked about it more than once) have either mentioned it directly or it's come up in response to their comments. I honestly can't think of a sports related site I've read or listened to that didn't at least discuss it as speculation.

You mention Chris Sanders and I do remember his comments but I'd already heard about the Sarver trip on RGM a few days before he brought it to this board. There was a lot of speculation on other sites when it happened that paralleled what Chris thought.

The majority always believed we were taking Ayton but that's not in question here.

yes. everyone acknowledged Sarver took a trip to see Doncic. That's not in question. The question is if there was rampant speculation that he really wanted him over Ayton in places other than fans. You've pointed to RealGM (that I googled and couldn't find anything like that)... and a Suns fan page as evidence that this talk was common place. But you're... never mind.

believe whatever you want.

 

[SirStefan32]

Luka just beat Golden State 22-16 in the first quarter. Other Mavs chipped in for another 22.

 

[NoelPHX]

Still early, but at the moment it is another big vs small and we lost.

 

[CRC83]

35-10-10 halfway through the 3rd. Unreal. I like Ayton and hope he turns out to be a great player, but man, in hindsight I wish we picked Doncic.

 

[AzStevenCal]

.

35-10-10 halfway through the 3rd. Unreal. I like Ayton and hope he turns out to be a great player, but man, in hindsight I wish we picked Doncic.

Yeah, I want to stay positive about Ayton but it's getting more difficult by the day to cling to the idea that Ayton was the right pick.

 

[CRC83]

Luka just beat Golden State 22-16 in the first quarter. Other Mavs chipped in for another 22.

He also had more rebounds and assists than the warriors.

 

[Dr. Jones]

What Luka did in 26 minutes tonight was insane. On ESPN no less. At 20 years old.

Again..... Ayton is going to need to become the 2nd coming of David Robinson but I will give him till the end of next season to make me a believer.

Until then..... It was a horribly myopic..... head towards the past...... Sam Bowie level decision. He hasn't shown the drive, aggression, or instincts required to be an All-NBA level player. And that stuff doesn't come with time IMO.

 

[BC867]

Luka just beat Golden State 22-16 in the first quarter. Other Mavs chipped in for another 22.

I like Ayton and hope he turns out to be a great player, but man, in hindsight I wish we picked Doncic.

We are 1 1/2 games behind Dallas in the Western Conference standings.

And that is without Ayton and, lately, Rubio. Our Center and Point Guard.
With a marginal Power Forward. And weak on backups at various positions
in the rotation. Just learning how to play together as a winning team after
a decade of futility.

Only 1 1/2 games games behind Dallas despite Doncic's individual stats.

I am glad we gained a Center and a legitimate Point Guard. If we had picked
Doncic, we would have neither. Or the benefit of returning Booker to SG.

Almost like Wilt vs. Russ. Wilt had the overwhelming individual stats. Russ
had the trophies.

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[CardsSunsDbacks]

I am glad we gained a Center and a legitimate Point Guard. If we had picked
Doncic, we would have neither. Or the benefit of returning Booker to SG.

How would Doncic, who is absolutely a PG on offense, stop us from returning Booker to SG?

Had we picked Doncic than Baynes and Diallo would probably more than suffice as the centers right now.

We could also probably start TJ to guard opposing PGs so that Doncic could hide on a wing or even a stretch 4.

It wouldn't be great on defense, but our offense would be nearly unstoppable.

 

[GatorAZ]

yes. everyone acknowledged Sarver took a trip to see Doncic. That's not in question. The question is if there was rampant speculation that he really wanted him over Ayton in places other than fans. You've pointed to RealGM (that I googled and couldn't find anything like that)... and a Suns fan page as evidence that this talk was common place. But you're... never mind.

believe whatever you want.

After that trip Ryen Russillo said on his pre-draft podcast that Sarver loved Doncic but the front office wanted Ayton.

 

[BC867]

How would Doncic, who is absolutely a PG on offense, stop us from returning Booker to SG?

Had we picked Doncic than Baynes and Diallo would probably more than suffice as the centers right now.

We could also probably start TJ to guard opposing PGs so that Doncic could hide on a wing or even a stretch 4.

It wouldn't be great on defense, but our offense would be nearly unstoppable.

I am responding with a few questions.

With Booker and Doncic, what quality starter would bring up the ball every trip
down the court and wear themselves out?

And as Wings, who would defend quicker Point Guards throughout the game?

As you said, where's the defense? How many players can you hide?

Also, as you mentioned, Baynes and Diallo as our ongoing Centers?

Is that the formula for success?

As I posted, we're 1 1/2 games behind the Mavericks, despite Doncic's stats.

Because we've stopped the gimmick of not having legitimate players for each position.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I am responding with a few questions.

With Booker and Doncic, what quality starter would bring up the ball every trip
down the court and wear themselves out?

And as Wings, who would defend quicker Point Guards throughout the game?

As you said, where's the defense? How many players can you hide?

Also, as you mentioned, Baynes and Diallo as our ongoing Centers?

Is that the formula for success?

As I posted, we're 1 1/2 games behind the Mavericks, despite Doncic's stats.

Because we've stopped the gimmick of not having legitimate players for each position.

Doncic is the PG and thus would bring the ball up the court. It's what he is doing with the Mavs and he would still do it if he was on the Suns. He would not have the same issues as Booker as he is a superior ball handler and passer.

Again defense would be the tough part as one of Doncic or Booker would always have to guard a good offensive wing, but Doncic can also guard many stretch 4s because of his size. Booker has also shown to be a much more effective defender when the effort is there.

Baynes and Diallo would be more than good enough at center with all the open looks and easy lay ins they would get from Doncic and Booker. Doncic generates a ton of open looks for his teammates and Booker would benefit more than most. We also could have spent the cap space this summer in different areas than we did to round out the roster better around Doncic and Booker.

As to the difference in records I would argue that we have a better roster than the Mavs at this point (at least when we were healthy). Doncic is having to essentially carry his offense for stretches of games and we haven't had to rely on anyone to do that for us so far.

Also I would like to point out that I am not yet at the point of saying we made a mistake, but I do fully believe that we could have made it work and the team would likely be doing quite well had they taken Doncic instead of Ayton.

 

[CRC83]

I am responding with a few questions.

With Booker and Doncic, what quality starter would bring up the ball every trip
down the court and wear themselves out?

And as Wings, who would defend quicker Point Guards throughout the game?

As you said, where's the defense? How many players can you hide?

Also, as you mentioned, Baynes and Diallo as our ongoing Centers?

Is that the formula for success?

As I posted, we're 1 1/2 games behind the Mavericks, despite Doncic's stats.

Because we've stopped the gimmick of not having legitimate players for each position.

Doncic, Booker, Oubre, Saric, Baynes is WAY better than what the Mavs have. And the Mavs are 9-5! Doncic with as many shooters as we have would be scary.

 

[SirStefan32]

Doncic, Booker, Oubre, Saric, Baynes is WAY better than what the Mavs have. And the Mavs are 9-5! Doncic with as many shooters as we have would be scary.

Agreed. It's not even close.

 

[Takeo]

Ayton was the consensus safe pick. It’s hard to criticize the pick looking back, but it is absolutely disappointing. Doncic is without question the superior player now and going forward. For that matter, already better than Booker in all facets.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton was the consensus safe pick. It’s hard to criticize the pick looking back, but it is absolutely disappointing. Doncic is without question the superior player now and going forward. For that matter, already better than Booker in all facets.

Yeah, I can't fault us for taking Ayton but no Doncic isn't "better than Booker in all facets". Better than Booker overall? Maybe. But not in all facets.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I can't fault us for taking Ayton but no Doncic isn't "better than Booker in all facets". Better than Booker overall? Maybe. But not in all facets.

Maybe? Come on. yes, Booker's a better shooter and a marginally better defender, but Doncic is just as good of a scorer if not better and he simply blows Booker away as far as rebounding and more than anything playmaking, making teammates better and actually having an impact on the most important stat... winning basketball games.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, I love Booker, but Doncic is a better player right now, and that's not a knock on Book. It's just hard to be a better overall player than a power forward-sized point guard. Dude is literally #4 in scoring, #2 in assists, and #10 in rebounding in the entire league. He is also clearly the best player on the 4th best team in the West right now. On top of that, he is 20 years old, and only in his second season.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yeah, I love Booker, but Doncic is a better player right now, and that's not a knock on Book. It's just hard to be a better overall player than a power forward-sized point guard. Dude is literally #4 in scoring, #2 in assists, and #10 in rebounding in the entire league. He is also clearly the best player on the 4th best team in the West right now. On top of that, he is 20 years old, and only in his second season.

100% agree.