The official START WARNER and BENCH LEINART thread

[SeattleCard]

The only silver lining of this weeks game has now been crushed now that Whis has announced Matt as the starter.

 

[Chopper0080]

Three years ago he had to memorize the USC offense. Now, this is less of a task as he had probably had most memorized by his senoir year but their are always new wrinkles in offenses. I might have to restate and say that in the last three years, Matt has had to KNOW three different offenses and their coaches individual philosophies.

 

[gamebird98]

I think Matt will be ok eventually. I think Kurts ability to read the Defense was the difference. Also, It seemed like they sent more defenders against Matt...cant say as I blame them.

 

[Chopper0080]

"its just an excuse many young QB's have eceled at the NFL level and not needed scaled back Gameplans or constant remarks from their coaches that there is to much to focus on or to big a gameplan"

I really have to totally disagree with this comment. Roethisberger had the offense scaled back for him in his rookie year. Romo had the offense scaled back in his first year as a starter. Cutler had half field reads and a playaction based offensive attack in his rookie season. Young struggled greatly throwing the ball his rookie season and this was because he was overwhelmed. Philip Rivers has had three years in basically the same system and is still learning. What proof is there that this is an "excuse" and not a fact?

 

[Totally_Red]

Listen I'm the biggest Warner supporter out there, but even I think Matt starts next week. Kurt was in a unique situation to flourish today. As the game announcers said during the TV broadcast, the hurry-up offense limits the defenses chances to vary their defenses and get substitutions into the game. Whis' brilliant stategy had them back on their heels, and Kurt to his credit made them pay with pin point passes.

I suspect Whis will not hesitate to use Kurt again in CERTAIN situations. Kurt's two-plus years of experience with Q, Fitz and BJ showed in the second half. The timing and accuracy of his passes was incredible. Whis saw what he could do in the pre-season where his passer rating was something like 150. If Matt is struggling against Pittsburgh, we'll see Kurt. If Matt plays well, we'll all jump back on his bandwagon.

Meanwhile the future looks bright with a very competent coaching staff that knows how to use their personnel, and tries to give every player a chance to contribute.

 

[English on tour]

If what Matt is showing is the future then we better damn well look back. Dont you find it odd that as soon as Warner

so hes started what 10 games now?

give the kid a chance mate. i know we want to win now but i think we can do it with ML in there and we wll better game on game for it.

put warner in and as soon as he thows two int's in game (or anything that he did last year) and the calls for him to be replaced will start.

in the heat of the moment it easy to say start Warner but we have to look at the bigger picture and look at the past.

i'm as pissed as you today byw but i just think we need to be level headed here.

 

[Shane]

"its just an excuse many young QB's have eceled at the NFL level and not needed scaled back Gameplans or constant remarks from their coaches that there is to much to focus on or to big a gameplan"

I really have to totally disagree with this comment. Roethisberger had the offense scaled back for him in his rookie year. Romo had the offense scaled back in his first year as a starter. Cutler had half field reads and a playaction based offensive attack in his rookie season. Young struggled greatly throwing the ball his rookie season and this was because he was overwhelmed. Philip Rivers has had three years in basically the same system and is still learning. What proof is there that this is an "excuse" and not a fact?

You are 100% making excuses for the guy. I might buy your argument last year. But not this year no way new system or not. We were told by pretty much everyone that Leinart was one of the brightest QB's to come out in a long long time with an incredible football acumen.

The guy played in a very complicated NFL offense at USC on top of it. He is either not as amsrt as peopel thought or completely undedicated IMHO.

 

[Matt L]

Agree with totally red. I would say we should start Kurt if we are going to play hurry up offense throughout the entire game (which isn't a bad idea).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Just twelve months ago this entire board was clamoring to bench Warner. What exactly has happened in between now and then other than 1.5 bad games for a second year QB?

We bench Leinart now and whatever his future holds is not in AZ. That's the reality. Is that promise really worth going to a fumble-prone QB who hasn't lasted a season in around a decade?

 

[Matt L]

****Sarcasm Alert****
I think we should definitely bench Leinart and possibly trade him for anything we might be able to get for him. It is clear from a the two quotes I have read and from studying the film of him on the sidelines that he only cares for himself, does not have the dedication, and cannot grasp an NFL offense. Shane, who has perfected the art of tv psychology has definitely opened my eyes to Leinart's horrible body language (he had his hat on and was watching the game) and to his terrible study session (remember how he admitted that he put in extra time to prepare for the seahawks cause he felt he wasn't prepared enough for the 49ers. I mean this guy has no future in the league. Maybe we can trade him for McCown. I sincerely hope the Rod Graves is on the Phone with the Raiders.
******End Sarcastic Post****

 

[CardShark]

I am just very happy that we have two quality QB's. We've never been this fortunate.

 

[CardShark]

Just twelve months ago this entire board was clamoring to bench Warner. What exactly has happened in between now and then other than 1.5 bad games for a second year QB?

We bench Leinart now and whatever his future holds is not in AZ. That's the reality. Is that promise really worth going to a fumble-prone QB who hasn't lasted a season in around a decade?

Even if Warner plays, Leinart is still the future of the Cards. He's a young QB that is going through development. I think Warner resurrected his career when he donned the gloves. I think anyone that says it has to be one or the other is just looking to bitch. I think our situation is comparable to when the 49'ers had Montana and Young. It's a blessing.

 

[D-Dogg]

Even if Warner plays, Leinart is still the future of the Cards. He's a young QB that is going through development. I think Warner resurrected his career when he donned the gloves. I think anyone that says it has to be one or the other is just looking to bitch. I think our situation is comparable to when the 49'ers had Montana and Young. It's a blessing.

 

[sportznutt]

The Ravens D is a top 5 in the NFL, and they do some crazy things to mess with offenses. Warner's a vet, has seen it all, and was able to overcome their pressure. Leinart is still essentially a rookie and is learning.

 

[Gambit]

Again, a sure fire way to ruin a young QB is turnover in an organization. Smart or not, memorizing three different offenses and three different coaching philosophies in three years is tough and even more so when you are adjusting to the NFL. This will probably be the most difficult time in Leinart's career because he has had to flush most of what he learned in year one and start over.

I agree. It's hard to argue with results, but Whis pulling Leinart on a whim is bad business for the future, in my opinion.

 

[Spielman]

In the interests of disclosure, I'm a St. Louis fan. I'm also a fan of football, period, and I enjoy talking with fans of rival teams. I'm not going to be anything but respectful towards people here, and I hope everyone here will return the favor. Also, yes, I know the Rams are terrible, and there's pretty much nothing you can say there that I haven't said already myself.

I'm a huge Warner fan. He was a terrific QB for my team, and he is a terrific human being. I came by here today just to read over the game thread and enjoy seeing the reactions to my favorite player doing well.

That said, I'd be very leery of him starting, or of relying on him for more than spot work. Keep in mind what his track record has been for the last six years... he's never lost his accuracy, and he's always been capable of making good reads and great throws, but he hasn't been able to hold onto the ball and gets messed up when he starts taking hits. I don't want to get too far into why I think that's the case, but it certainly has been his M.O. for awhile now.

I was a big Leinart backer when he was drafted too. I thought he was the next big thing, and I still think there's a good chance he'll come through and be an excellent QB, though I'm starting to have my doubts. The Cardinals need to erase those doubts one way or the other as soon as possible. The only way to do that is to give him playing time. I actually think Whisenhunt has a brilliant idea with putting Warner in for a drive or two during each game, slowing things down a bit for Leinart, and giving Warner a chance with a set package. But if they go with Warner as the starter, he'll get banged around, his efficiacy will decrease, and he'll get hurt. Probably sooner rather than later. Then Leinart will be forced back in with no safety line.

Or the short version: I agree with Totally_Red.

 

[Gambit]

Just twelve months ago this entire board was clamoring to bench Warner. What exactly has happened in between now and then other than 1.5 bad games for a second year QB?

We bench Leinart now and whatever his future holds is not in AZ. That's the reality. Is that promise really worth going to a fumble-prone QB who hasn't lasted a season in around a decade?

Concur. What Whis did today was more more momentous than he makes it seem.

 

[D-Dogg]

I agree. It's hard to argue with results, but Whis pulling Leinart on a whim is bad business for the future, in my opinion.

It wasn't a whim. It was in a specific situation that they said they had practiced and worked on.

And btw, Matt had a big grin on his face when Kurt came over and was talking to him. He didn't look pissy or sulking.

 

[BradMannTX]

If I'm the boss:

Leinart starts...look even a little bit hurt and you are playing like poop, Warner is in and your injury looks a lot worse.

Just me, though.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree. It's hard to argue with results, but Whis pulling Leinart on a whim is bad business for the future, in my opinion.

It wasn't a whim they said during the game on radio that Whiz told them this was a package and they'd put it in and planned it for this game. Unless he's just covering for Matt, that implies Matt knew all along this could happen in the game.

 

[bigredjane]

I agree--

I think the coaches' tinkering with Matt's game (which is very much needed) has screwed him up. He looks completely lost out there and isn't even playing with his natural ability. He's overthinking everything and very hesitant.

At this point, Kurt gives us the best chance to win, and Matt sitting and working on the footwork and the reading of defenses without the pressure of playing is the best for his development.

Good for us all the way around.

Good post!

 

[40yearfan]

I agree. It's hard to argue with results, but Whis pulling Leinart on a whim is bad business for the future, in my opinion.

Disagree. Lienart is a big boy and needs to grow up. If he can't handle the pressure now, what makes you think he'll be able to do so in the future? Either he starts winning or he sits.

 

[Gambit]

It wasn't a whim. It was in a specific situation that they said they had practiced and worked on.

And btw, Matt had a big grin on his face when Kurt came over and was talking to him. He didn't look pissy or sulking.

I couldn't hear anything since I had a small TV at a bar. I think Matt will take in stride, because he is probably partly happy for Warner. At the same time, he's no doubt irked because he got benched and he may be benched at a moment's notice from now on. I don't like this.

I remember this very scenario was suggested by a poster here. I didn't really agree with it then, and I'm not sure how I do now. It feels like sacrificing sustained future success for ephemeral success now.

 

[BradMannTX]

Warner outplayed Matt today...at least 3:1

If Warner can keep it up without giving up the ball, he should be the starter. Personally, I don't think he can keep up the play without giving up the rock. Even with the gloves.

Whomever starts, I will support.

 

[D-Dogg]

Whomever starts, I will support.

:notworthy