The Positive Kyler Murray News Thread

[CardNots]

So, what, you want to wait until he comes back next year, definitively stick with him, and not pick a QB at the top of the draft. Not going negative here, but if he never regains top form for whatever reason, but is kinda average, we face having missed on getting a top draft pick QB and not having a QBOF. Bad risk for no reason whatsoever. Let the kid play. Sitting him makes no sense if he's ready to play.

Yep and I distinctly remember the same comment when we chose Kyler the last time we were choosing a high pick. We want to do this again?

Look our most recent best years were with Palmer and Warner as QBs not some snot nosed kid we hope matures into something special.

Roll with a healthy Kyler or bring in a veteran QB not named Dobbs.

 

[Stout]

Yep and I distinctly remember the same comment when we chose Kyler the last time we were choosing a high pick. We want to do this again?

Look our most recent best years were with Palmer and Warner as QBs not some snot nosed kid we hope matures into something special.

Roll with a healthy Kyler or bring in a veteran QB not named Dobbs.

I get it. You don't want to roll the dice. That's how you get some busts, but that's also how you get some generational talents like Peyton Manning, Joe Burrow, and co.

 

[CardNots]

I get it. You don't want to roll the dice. That's how you get some busts, but that's also how you get some generational talents like Peyton Manning, Joe Burrow, and co.

I don’t disagree with you but we are the Cardinals, right?

 

[CardNots]

I get it. You don't want to roll the dice. That's how you get some busts, but that's also how you get some generational talents like Peyton Manning, Joe Burrow, and co.

This draft is a strong one for tackles and QB. Unlike Kyler’s draft there are several attractive QBs. We have a chance to get a generational WR and Tackle. I would rather walk away with those choices and a boat load of draft picks to increase our overall talent level than rolling the dice on a QB early. If Kyler can’t be that veteran QB at least our overall team will be better for a different veteran QB. I don’t want Kyler to play this year as I want people wondering and speculating what we will do in the draft.

 

[ajcardfan]

Every single draft has a chance at a generational QB talent. 2024, 2025... et al

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I get it. You don't want to roll the dice. That's how you get some busts, but that's also how you get some generational talents like Peyton Manning, Joe Burrow, and co.

Peyton Manning and Joe Burrow appearing side by side.

1000%. All day every day.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We are under no circumstance to move UP with how talent-deficient this roster is.

The only way we should move up, is if we move down first. Just like last year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Every single draft has a chance at a generational QB talent. 2024, 2025... et al

The last draft didn't.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So, what, you want to wait until he comes back next year, definitively stick with him, and not pick a QB at the top of the draft. Not going negative here, but if he never regains top form for whatever reason, but is kinda average, we face having missed on getting a top draft pick QB and not having a QBOF. Bad risk for no reason whatsoever. Let the kid play. Sitting him makes no sense if he's ready to play.

Here is the thing. This draft has a really good collection of talent, much better than last year's.

There were draft analysts who said that last year's draft maybe had 20 first round grades. That means theoretically the 21st pick was a round two talent in most years.

Another belief was that the pool of really good talent was quite small. PJJ is a really good talent but in most drafts he is probably a mid first rounder.

The point I'm making is that even though I'm pretty enamored with this QB class, it's not like the Cardinals won't be able to add two REALLY GOOD players, maybe even two elite players. Franchise cornerstone type of players. And if Murray is only average from now on out, you get a QB later, but you still added to really good players at the top of the 2024 draft

 

[ajcardfan]

The last draft didn't.

Iyo. But teams fell all over themselves to draft Young, Stroud, Richardson and it wasn't because they hope they might be solid.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I get it. You don't want to roll the dice. That's how you get some busts, but that's also how you get some generational talents like Peyton Manning, Joe Burrow, and co.

Manning and Burrow were drafted like 20 years apart....that's a lot of misses in-between.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Here is the thing. This draft has a really good collection of talent, much better than last year's.

There were draft analysts who said that last year's draft maybe had 20 first round grades. That means theoretically the 21st pick was a round two talent in most years.

Another belief was that the pool of really good talent was quite small. PJJ is a really good talent but in most drafts he is probably a mid first rounder.

The point I'm making is that even though I'm pretty enamored with this QB class, it's not like the Cardinals won't be able to add two REALLY GOOD players, maybe even two elite players. Franchise cornerstone type of players. And if Murray is only average from now on out, you get a QB later, but you still added to really good players at the top of the 2024 draft

Considering the cap hit from moving on from Murray in prior to the 2024 season, this makes a lot of sense.

It gives Murray a longer (and more fair) runway to show he can be the guy too.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Iyo. But teams fell all over themselves to draft Young, Stroud, Richardson and it wasn't because they hope they might be solid.

Yeah teams are great at fooling themselves.

Most saw Bryce Young as this special talent, whereas I see a smaller Kyler Murray with markedly less athleticism. He's already missing games three games into his NFL career.

Richardson was the most average QB in the world last year, even with special athletic traits. That's a red flag if I've ever seen one, but if I'm banking on one of the QBs, I'm banking on special.

Stroud is going to follow a long line of busts at QB. He has a silky smooth throwing motion, but has no experience against actual adversity and doesn't use his athletic tools enough. I'd wager his ceiling is like QB 15. A good team might be able to win with him but he's not a top five pick.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[Krangodnzr]

Considering the cap hit from moving on from Murray in prior to the 2024 season, this makes a lot of sense.

It gives Murray a longer (and more fair) runway to show he can be the guy too.

The cap hit isn't unmanageable. I've seen that if you trade him post-June 1st it's much less, but that of course means the dead cap spreads over two years.

The Cardinals could absorb that hit with all the cap space they have.

 

[CardNots]

The cap hit isn't unmanageable. I've seen that if you trade him post-June 1st it's much less, but that of course means the dead cap spreads over two years.

The Cardinals could absorb that hit with all the cap space they have.

Let’s just get out of the managing dead cap space business.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Iyo. But teams fell all over themselves to draft Young, Stroud, Richardson and it wasn't because they hope they might be solid.

It is because they thought that they would be a QBoF. Not necessarily a generational talent. That's how important QBs are.

 

[ajcardfan]

Even if Monti puts Kyler on the market the offer is going to be shut. IMO. While Kyler's performance will certainly matter why is some GM going to offer a blockbuster when Monti has established a history of letting a player like Hopkins walk for nothing. Just wait.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Let’s just get out of the managing dead cap space business.

What's worse is not moving on when you should, not admitting your mistakes.

 

[CardNots]

What's worse is not moving on when you should, not admitting your mistakes.

How about reducing the damn mistakes in the first place. For god’s sake we are still dealing with phillip’s dead space.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What's worse is not moving on when you should, not admitting your mistakes.

Obviously the latter.

However, the economic approach of how you rebuild your team is just as important as is the player personnel approach.

Using your strategy, which assumes Murray plays reasonably well this year, think of what additional pieces the Cardinals could add since part of the 2024 cap will not be used for a rookie QB.

It's not a huge amount (I bet the 2024 cap hit for the #1 or #2 player will be like 15 million or so), but in the NFL, where the line between winning and losing is razor thin, every player personnel and cap hit decision matters. Big time.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

What's worse is not moving on when you should, not admitting your mistakes

Eating 80M! in cap space to move on makes absolutely no sense. Especially since that number gets cut in half the year after. Bidwill isn't going to just throw away 40M in back to back years with nothing to show for it. (nor should he)

 

[GatorAZ]

Eating 80M! in cap space to move on makes absolutely no sense. Especially since that number gets cut in half the year after. Bidwill isn't going to just throw away 40M in back to back years with nothing to show for it. (nor should he)

If the Cards move on it will be via trade pre 6/1 of 2024:
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Is a Kyler Murray 2024 Trade Plausible?

The Arizona Cardinals walked away from the 2023 NFL draft a winner in many books, and in turn, have ramped up speculation about the idea of moving on from Kyler Murray after 2023.

www.spotrac.com

 

[BritCard]

Eating 80M! in cap space to move on makes absolutely no sense. Especially since that number gets cut in half the year after. Bidwill isn't going to just throw away 40M in back to back years with nothing to show for it. (nor should he)

Its $46m dead money in a trade but still applies.

 

[kerouac9]

The cap hit isn't unmanageable. I've seen that if you trade him post-June 1st it's much less, but that of course means the dead cap spreads over two years.

The Cardinals could absorb that hit with all the cap space they have.

They don’t have a ton of cap space in 2024. They have enough to trade Kyler and field a team. They don’t have enough to keep Kyler and significantly upgrade the roster nor do they have enough to trade Kyler and put together a competitive team (7.5 win O/U)