The Positive Kyler Murray News Thread

[The6]

Have you read the mod warnings? This isn't a Kyler Murray bashing thread.

Actually I did not. Thx for letting me know

 

[Yuma]

What if we do take a haul for our pick? We essentially can draft a whole new team. After next year's draft, the Cardinals can improve tremendously.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We couldn’t get our own players to re-sign here. There were several arguments that you can’t sign players who don’t want to come here. I don’t see that significantly changing. We will once again be one of the worse teams in the NFL.

It's called $$$$.

I don't think it's a stretch to say the Cardinals are less appealing when you know that McCoy is the starting QB for a big chunk of the season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We couldn’t get our own players to re-sign here. There were several arguments that you can’t sign players who don’t want to come here. I don’t see that significantly changing. We will once again be one of the worse teams in the NFL.

As far as that comment is concerned, players have been known to lie about the circumstances of their departure. Not saying Byron is a liar, but how do we know that Monti offered less or a longer deal with the same average? We don't really know and teams rarely comment on these situations.

 

[CardsFan88]

Forget the number amounts, focus on % of cap. These numbers bandied about aren't huge.

Estimated $256 million cap
69 mill = 26.9%
89 mill = 34.7%

Both numbers are decent, but not a huge amount. Then it depends on what we do with Kyler.

I also don't think we're going to leverage ourselves the first year, so I doubt there's much action in pushing money out to future years.

For reference, just looking back to 2017 where the Browns were, with 168 mill salary cap. They had 110.9 mill space. If those numbers are ballpark correct, that's 66.0% of cap space.

Then to project that forward, for the Cards to be where the Browns were, we'd need to have ~169 million in cap space.

We really don't have that much.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Forget the number amounts, focus on % of cap. These numbers bandied about aren't huge.

Estimated $256 million cap
69 mill = 26.9%
89 mill = 34.7%

Both numbers are decent, but not a huge amount. Then it depends on what we do with Kyler.

I also don't think we're going to leverage ourselves the first year, so I doubt there's much action in pushing money out to future years.

For reference, just looking back to 2017 where the Browns were, with 168 mill salary cap. They had 110.9 mill space. If those numbers are ballpark correct, that's 66.0% of cap space.

Then to project that forward, for the Cards to be where the Browns were, we'd need to have ~169 million in cap space.

We really don't have that much.

Over a third of the cap open with really only Hollywood needing to be resigned and you don't think that's a lot of space?

It's quite a bit of space with a really good FA class.

 

[AZ Native]

I'm watching the ASU/USC game. I am not the biggest KM fan but I believe he can do what Williams has done and even more. (Besides, Caleb doesn't want to be here so we don't need his sorry Eli a$$ here). This is a depleted ASU team. I know we owe Kyler big bucks but a large chunk of that is guaranteed. I say roll with him and trade one or both our our top draft picks for a boatload of picks. With all the picks we already own, and someone drafting who appears to know what they are doing, I say build around Kyler, and give him some real weapons including improving the lines. We would have a lot of options having 2 of the top draft picks. I finally think we have someone who can make all those picks count.

 

[BritCard]

Not only that, but if we do end up pretty terrible, players will likely look at the fact that despite an entire regime change…. the Cardinals were terrible. A terrible season with a new GM probably doesn’t help sell a narrative that things are different here now.

*Looks at the Jags*

*Decides this is rubbish*

 

[Stout]

Manning and Burrow were drafted like 20 years apart....that's a lot of misses in-between.

Deliberately being obtuse merely because I didn't list all of the QBs is silly

 

[Stout]

Maybe that argument gets lost… because the same exact people made the exact same argument last year when we also pretty much punted on FA.

And probably will again next off-season. Expecting the Cardinals to become big FA spenders next year is very confusing to me.

And what will the same people excusing the team last offseason be saying when it happens again? What will the excuses be and how much handbag clutching will there be if they get called on it?

 

[Stout]

But how long until C. Williams demands a fat contact, one much richer than Murray's currently?

They myth of four years of cap control with a rookie QB is just that. A myth.

It's only a myth if a team like us is dumb enough to let it be a myth.

 

[TheCardFan]

They myth of four years of cap control with a rookie QB is just that. A myth.

How is it a myth tho?

You definitely have the 4 years plus 5th year option (5 years). I am pretty sure all these QB that are signing 2nd contracts are getting extensions (starts after 5th year) not re-doing rookie deals.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

How is it a myth tho?

You definitely have the 4 years plus 5th year option (5 years). I am pretty sure all these QB that are signing 2nd contracts are getting extensions (starts after 5th year) not re-doing rookie deals.

As at least one example, flavor-of-the-month Joe Burrow's contract ended a year early, correct? Started in 2020?

 

[TheCardFan]

As at least one example, flavor-of-the-month Joe Burrow's contract ended a year early, correct? Started in 2020?

I could be wrong here but his 4th year is 2023 (2020, 2021, 2022) on original rookie deal.
5th year is 2024. That is paid at $29M (standard slot for his 5th year option).

His new 5 year deal kicks in after that - in 2025.

They essentially have Burrow signed for 10 years.

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[Garthshort]

And what will the same people excusing the team last offseason be saying when it happens again? What will the excuses be and how much handbag clutching will there be if they get called on it?

Are you saying that it WILL happen again? And if so is the again, the next offseason?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I could be wrong here but his 4th year is 2023 (2020, 2021, 2022) on original rookie deal.
5th year is 2024. That is paid at $29M (standard slot for his 5th year option).

His new 5 year deal kicks in after that - in 2025.

They essentially have Burrow signed for 10 years.

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Hmmm.. wonderful work TheCardFan, thank you and I stand corrected.

Perhaps cost control/cost efficiency of rookie QBs is still a significant factor when considering moving on from a team's current QB.

 

[CardsFan88]

Over a third of the cap open with really only Hollywood needing to be resigned and you don't think that's a lot of space?

It's quite a bit of space with a really good FA class.

No, it's historically not. We will likely have two top end first round picks.

We have DL'men getting 30 million a year.

That money will go quickly and our team will still be thin, and if we take a cap hitting Murray, it's basically nothing.

That's just reality. That cap space can do a few things if we don't do anything with Murray.

If you want to fill up with 2 yr 10 million deals like White, you can do a lot. If you plan on getting a 15-20 million a year player, you'll likely only get 1-2 and then you're bargain shopping.

Cap number through the years is fluid, % of cap is apple to apple comparison.

I've shown you that it's not uncommon for teams to have 50-66% and our range is 25-35%, literally half that, and we have a decision to make with Murray that could suck up alot of that 25-35%.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No, it's historically not. We also will have likely two top-end-round picks.

We have DL'men getting 30 million a year.

That money will go quickly and our team will still be thin, and if we take a cap hitting Murray, it's basically nothing.

That's just reality. That cap space can do a few things if we don't do anything with Murray.

If you want to fill up with 2 yr 10 million dollar deals like White, you can do a lot. If you plan on getting a 15-20 million a year player, you'll likely only get 1-2 and then you're bargain shopping.

If you're letting Murray go, you won't have cap space.

The Cardinals can also easily get $30 million more too.

 

[CardsFan88]

If you're letting Murray go, you won't have cap space.

The Cardinals can also easily get $30 million more too.

So it's not alot.

Especially if we have to create room. I don't want us to create room while we suck. Makes no sense.

You do that after you've built a team and want to contend, not max out your NFL credit card to get to 8-9. (17 games lol)

 

[TheCardFan]

Contrarian view of the nuclear option (getting rid of Kyler, DJ, Budda, etc):

Kyler becomes the franchise QB many expect him to be. A true difference maker and we keep him.
We extend Budda - leader of the defense.
Keep Jalen (strong safety group)
Keep DJ (strong bookend OT's)
Extend Kyzir White
We have Gardeck, Sanders, Thomas, and Ojulari develop into solid depth and consistent pass rush threat
Wilson, Clark, and Matthew are solid #2/#3 CB's

We still need:
#1 WR (Brown is not it)
#1 CB
#1 Pass rusher (10 plus sacks/year)
#1 DT (disrupter)
IOL upgrade (Specifically 2 Guards)

It's reasonable to think we could add 6-8 players through the draft and free agency in 2024 to be significantly better.

Two big question marks:
1 - Can Kyler become elite (consistently)?
2 - Is this enough to win a championship (still looking at 2025 at the earliest)

 

[Krangodnzr]

So it's not alot.

Especially if we have to create room. I don't want us to create room while we suck. Makes no sense.

You do that after you've built a team and want to contend, not max out your NFL credit card to get to 8-9. (17 games lol)

It's plenty.

If I'm the Cardinals, I sign an interior player like a Chris Jones and a capable LG. I resign Hollywood because if you draft MHJ, the WR corps is still fairly cost controlled. Cut Ertz, cut Conner, let Budda go. Sign a cheaper safety.

 

[TheCardFan]

Chris Jones is not going from Chiefs to us.

Signing Hollywood long term feels about as dumb as signing Jermaine Gresham. I will say this tho...the lack of noise from Hollywood about a new contract has been surprising and interesting.

We already have a another good safety in Wallace.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As at least one example, flavor-of-the-month Joe Burrow's contract ended a year early, correct? Started in 2020?

Do you realize how silly it sounds when you post something like this? That “Flavor of the month” took the AFC equivalent of the Cardinals to back to back AFC Title Games, a Super Bowl and came within 50 yards of winning a Super Bowl… all by the end of his 3rd season.

Also, he’s STILL on his rookie contract.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's plenty.

If I'm the Cardinals, I sign an interior player like a Chris Jones and a capable LG. I resign Hollywood because if you draft MHJ, the WR corps is still fairly cost controlled. Cut Ertz, cut Conner, let Budda go. Sign a cheaper safety.

I think it’s really unrealistic that Chris Jones signs here… or that we even go after him/pony up the exorbitant amount of money needed to get him.

And I think signing Hollywood to anything more than 12-15 million dollars per year is pissing in the wind. I don’t care about “price control”… if the value of the player per contract still sucks and that guy is probably gonna want 20 million per year, while making next to no impact on either team he’s ever played on.

 

[ajcardfan]

I wonder sometimes if the Bidwill kids are going to cut costs as much as possible to milk as much profit as they can before Bill Sr passes. Then sell the team.