The Rosen Problem

[BW52]

I mean you are welcome to refute any of this with any sort of real information. I would welcome it. Bring me back to the blissful ignorance that I had two weeks ago.

So what about OLINE injuries?As for the blissfiul ignorance

 

[azsouthendzone]

When do the Josh Rosen excuses stop?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

As I said, you are welcome to go pay the money to find out if your opinion is based in reality. You are 0/2 so far though so you may want to save the money

 

[Jetstream Green]

I mean you are welcome to refute any of this with any sort of real information. I would welcome it. Bring me back to the blissful ignorance that I had two weeks ago.

Chris I respect your opinion and I think as mere fans we take what we see and often also have to go off our gut because we want to know or at least have some kind of measuring stick, meaning the opinion of both you and I. I thought Leinart was the answer and was dead wrong, but I simply adored Russel Wilson in his draft and was vocal of my support of Mayfield... I do not see or have the same draw towards Murray, and in a way a unfair off feeling of hyper dramatic fear of a very athletic Max Hall out there with those little dink passes to the sidelines when being pressured or that occasional screw it deep pass once out of the pocket as a pro

 

[BW52]

I went with what information wasn't behind a paywall. You can pay it and answer your own question if you like.

You your argument that AZ was middle of the pack injury wise fails to account for Offensive line injuries..And I still say no other team lost all 5 starters over the season.Nobody .

 

[BW52]

As I said, you are welcome to go pay the money to find out if your opinion is based in reality. You are 0/2 so far though so you may want to save the money

I feel you are wrong and just because you are moderator do you have the right to be a smartass?

 

[Proximo]

Wilson is taller and sturdier.Brees is taller.Its not impossible to succeed at 5`10 but its highly unlikely.Keep trying.The list of successful 5`10 QBs is?

Wilson is 1/2 inch taller and 205 which Murray can play at.

If height is so damn important as you claim he should be one of the worst qb's in the league. Brees being 3 or 4 inches shorter than the average qb should eliminate him from being 1 of the top 2 or 3 qb's in the league. Simple logic dictates it is not a limiting factor to success.

The reason there is few qb's 6ft or less that have succeeded is because the same bias you have has kept colleges from recruiting or playing smaller qb's. You have to be awesome to be considered draft able at that size.

It's simple logic - a smaller number of qb's who are shorter than 6 ft leads to a smaller number who have been successful. You have to have an opportunity to be successful.

 

[Jetstream Green]

You your argument that AZ was middle of the pack injury wise fails to account for Offensive line injuries..And I still say no other team lost all 5 starters over the season.Nobody .

It's not that we lost starters, we kept shifting our backups as well... which was absolute mayhem for a position which has to play as one to be successful with a rookie center doing the best he could calling protection in some games when he had no vets next to him

 

[Billy Bob]

So the more I am forced to analyze Kyler Murray, the more I have to look at Rosen.

Do we have a franchise QB already?


Here is where he ranked last year. It's dreadful btw...

Kliff Kingsbury will have to be a miracle worker to get to league average.


https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/josh-rosen/

Josh's rankings last year:

28th in air yards
25th in pass attempt distance
23rd in money throws
19th in interceptable passes
16 in danger plays (where QB took unnecessary risks)
30 in expected pass TDs
36 in adjusted yards per attempt
36 in true completion percentage
36 in Play action passes
51(!!) in Red Zone completion
30 in Deep Ball percentage
22 in Pressured Completion Percentage
36 in Production Premium
35 in True Passer Rating
34 in Accuracy Rating

Not a single advanced stat above league average. Not a one.

The inaccuracy is staggering.

Show me stats of just rookie qbs

So the more I am forced to analyze Kyler Murray, the more I have to look at Rosen.

Do we have a franchise QB already?


Here is where he ranked last year. It's dreadful btw...

Kliff Kingsbury will have to be a miracle worker to get to league average.


https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/josh-rosen/

Josh's rankings last year:

28th in air yards
25th in pass attempt distance
23rd in money throws
19th in interceptable passes
16 in danger plays (where QB took unnecessary risks)
30 in expected pass TDs
36 in adjusted yards per attempt
36 in true completion percentage
36 in Play action passes
51(!!) in Red Zone completion
30 in Deep Ball percentage
22 in Pressured Completion Percentage
36 in Production Premium
35 in True Passer Rating
34 in Accuracy Rating

Not a single advanced stat above league average. Not a one.

The inaccuracy is staggering.

wouldn't using rookie QB stats be more accurate when analyzing a rookie QB?

 

[Ohcrap75]

Drew Brees rookie season he had multiple advanced stats above league average.

This is not proving whatever point you are trying to make.

Brees was 15 for 27 his rookie year.... Two years later he sucked.... Tell me why he was awful, but was able to be great, but Rosen can't improve?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Hmm...the Washington Redskins had 9 different offensive linemen in 2018 compared to 11 different offensive linemen for the Cardinals. Dolphins had a bunch of injuries as well.

Again without paying this is the closest I could get


In these 3 situations where big injuries hit the offensive linemen here would be the QB rankings

Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Brock Osweiler
Colt McCoy
Josh Rosen
Josh Johnson

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Brees was 15 for 27 his rookie year.... Two years later he sucked.... Tell me why he was awful, but was able to be great, but Rosen can't improve?

He wasn't awful by advanced stats. That is the point.

 

[BW52]

Wilson is 1/2 inch taller.

If height is so damn important as you claim he should be one of the worst qb's in the league. Brees being 3 or 4 inches shorter than the average qb should eliminate him from being 1 of the top 2 or 3 qb's in the league. Simple logic dictates it is not a limiting factor to success.

The reason there is few qb's 6ft or less that have succeeded is because the same bias you have has kept colleges from recruiting or playing smaller qb's. You have to be awesome to be considered draft able at that size.

It's simple logic - a smaller number of qb's who are shorter than 6 ft leads to a smaller number who have been successful. You have to have an opportunity to be successful.

If ;and that's a very big IF IMHO Murray comes in and is successful then it might make team re-evaluate what the position needs to work in the league.You know it happens at other positions also;every year college guys get drafted late or UDFA because of having some skills but not the physical traits needed so they end up PS guys to work on strengthening ,techniqueetc;.It s not QB but it shows there are reasons the league is what it is.

 

[NJCardFan]

The one thing you have to remember is that going into the season our offensive line was mediocre at best and I'm being kind. Then throw in that right off the bat we were behind the 8 ball when Shipley went down and by the time the season ended the line consisted of the backups. So judging Rosen after playing behind this paper mache line is silly. Hell, I'm surprised he did that well.


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[BW52]

Hmm...the Washington Redskins had 9 different offensive linemen in 2018 compared to 11 different offensive linemen for the Cardinals. Dolphins had a bunch of injuries as well.

Again without paying this is the closest I could get


In these 3 situations where big injuries hit the offensive linemen here would be the QB rankings

Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Brock Osweiler
Colt McCoy
Josh Rosen
Josh Johnson

Might just check it out later.It should be interesting.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Show me stats of just rookie qbs

wouldn't using rookie QB stats be more accurate when analyzing a rookie QB?

You are welcome to go to any site and do the comparison yourself

Quick comparison:

Mayfield: 10 stats in the top 15. Most in the top 10

Sam Darnold: 2 stats in the top 10. Most in the 20s

Josh Allen 4 in the top 15. 3 in the top 10. Most in the 20s

Rosen. 0 in top 15. Most in the 30s

 

[Jetstream Green]

You are welcome to go to any site and do the comparison yourself

Quick comparison:

Mayfield: 10 stats in the top 15. Most in the top 10

Sam Darnold: 2 stats in the top 10. Most in the 20s

Josh Allen 4 in the top 15. 3 in the top 10. Most in the 20s

Rosen. 0 in top 15. Most in the 30s

You know off topic Chris, I found myself missing Duckjake and what he would have thought of Murray and Rosen

 

[BW52]

It's not that we lost starters, we kept shifting our backups as well... which was absolute mayhem for a position which has to play as one to be successful with a rookie center doing the best he could calling protection in some games when he had no vets next to him

what I can`t understand is how some fail to think that makes no difference in the results.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You know off topic Chris, I found myself missing Duckjake and what he would have thought of Murray and Rosen

 

[Chris_Sanders]

what I can`t understand is how some fail to think that makes no difference in the results.

It absolutely made a ton of difference. I 100% agree we have seen Rosen at his worst.

I just don't think his best is top 10 based on all of these facts.

We can totally win with Rosen in the right situation

 

[ARZCardinals]

Rosen, Darold and Allens final numbers in percentage, yards, TD's and INT's are all comparable.
Rosen on tape began hitching his passes which was unusual when watching him from college to the pro's.
Rosen also struggled on going through progressions and tried forcing downfield plays more than hitting the 'sure' open player.
There's no real way to judge him one year into his career...just due to having the worst O line in the league AND only 2 targets available with Kirk and Fitz...with no TE nor a 3rd WR.
My guess is he gets traded to NY for pick 16

 

[PJ1]

That simply isn't remotely true.

David Johnson's advanced stats have several above average rankings despite his situation.

Pointing that out only makes it look worse for Rosen. A guy in the same situation found some success while another didn't

41st in YPC after what he did two years ago is finding success? You watched the games and thought Johnson had success?

 

[NJCardFan]

I am certainly not relying on my fandom and bias.

That is literally all we have with Rosen. Fandom, Bias, and Hope.

We had an overall horrible team last year. So horrible that the only reason we had 3 wins was because Garapolo got hurt and the Packers had give up on their coach. That's how close we were to 0-16. To pin that all on Rosen is as disingenuous as it can get. We fired our coach after 1 season. If Rosen were the problem Wilks would still be the coach.


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[GuernseyCard]

If we knew Murray was the next Mahomes, wouldn’t it be an easy decision?

'KNEW'

 

[NJCardFan]

Let's look at the other side. In 2006 Matt Leinart showed a ton of promise. How did that pan out?


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