Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[602 Native]

People on here were saying the game was meaningless BEFORE the game was played. Don't go rewriting history.

So what

Had we lost that wouldn’t have been the message

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It's possible my boy might still need to mature some more.

Poise is maturity's first cousin, and while Kyler has obviously made steps in the right direction in this regard, there are still some signs he might have a ways to go.

Getting his head kicked in by the fans and media every time he loses a big game might hasten the process some.

 

[Stout]

It's possible my boy might still need to mature some more.

Poise is maturity's first cousin, and while Kyler has obviously made steps in the right direction in this regard, there are still some signs he might have a ways to go.

Getting his head kicked in by the fans and media every time he loses a big game might hasten the process some.

Bah, if he still needs to mature by now, it ain't happening. How many years does he get to mature? 7, 8, 10, 12? Again, bah, I say

 

[kerouac9]

Again had he lost on Sunday people would for sure be parroting the “He can’t win meaningful games”.

Your ability to navigate alternative timelines is impressive.

If the Cards had lost last week, the focus would have fallen entirely on Gannon for not preparing the team to beat an extremely vulnerable opponent at home. There was nothing meaningful about that Pats game, really.

It's possible my boy might still need to mature some more.

Poise is maturity's first cousin, and while Kyler has obviously made steps in the right direction in this regard, there are still some signs he might have a ways to go.

Getting his head kicked in by the fans and media every time he loses a big game might hasten the process some.

Kyler is making his 80th career start. I understand that Lamar Jackson lost his first two playoff starts. Peyton Manning lost his first three playoff games. But at least those guys won the games to make the playoffs.

I don't think the criticism is helpful. I think he's super-sensitive to it.

 

[Chopper0080]

So what

Had we lost that wouldn’t have been the message

Good QBs generally don't get credit for beating bad teams. NE was a bad team.

Good QBs don't generally get credit for winning single games when they are a fringe playoff team. AZ is on the outside looking in.

Good QBs don't generally get credit for digging themselves out of a hole they put themselves in. Kyler lost 3 games in a row against playoff quality teams when AZ was in control of it's own destiny.

If you want to argue Kyler is in the same class as Geno Smith and Sam Darnold and Russ, you have to hold him to the same standards. Atlanta has the same record as AZ, beat a bad team, and still benched Cousins. A little different situation as they drafted Penix, but still, good QBs need to produce. You are correct that Kyler has the ability to change the narrative around his play in meaningful games, but that isn't done by beating a 3 win New England team.

 

[Chopper0080]

Your ability to navigate alternative timelines is impressive.

If the Cards had lost last week, the focus would have fallen entirely on Gannon for not preparing the team to beat an extremely vulnerable opponent at home. There was nothing meaningful about that Pats game, really.



Kyler is making his 80th career start. I understand that Lamar Jackson lost his first two playoff starts. Peyton Manning lost his first three playoff games. But at least those guys won the games to make the playoffs.

I don't think the criticism is helpful. I think he's super-sensitive to it.

I think it is more helpful to the franchise than it is to Murray.

 

[602 Native]

Good QBs generally don't get credit for beating bad teams. NE was a bad team.

Good QBs don't generally get credit for winning single games when they are a fringe playoff team. AZ is on the outside looking in.

Good QBs don't generally get credit for digging themselves out of a hole they put themselves in. Kyler lost 3 games in a row against playoff quality teams when AZ was in control of it's own destiny.

If you want to argue Kyler is in the same class as Geno Smith and Sam Darnold and Russ, you have to hold him to the same standards. Atlanta has the same record as AZ, beat a bad team, and still benched Cousins. A little different situation as they drafted Penix, but still, good QBs need to produce. You are correct that Kyler has the ability to change the narrative around his play in meaningful games, but that isn't done by beating a 3 win New England team.

I love the recency bias by the Geno and Darnold lovers. Two dudes that have never done anything at all in the NFL except bounce around the league for their whole careers.

Darnold hasn’t even had back to back good seasons ever in his career. Geno has as many tds as interceptions.

Keep this same energy when these two dudes crumble and plunge back to earth.

 

[kerouac9]

I love the recency bias by the Geno and Darnold lovers. Two dudes that have never done anything at all in the NFL except bounce around the league for their whole careers.

Darnold hasn’t even had back to back good seasons ever in his career. Geno has as many tds as interceptions.

Keep this same energy when these two dudes crumble and plunge back to earth.

Hilarious that someone who's demanding Kyler get his laurels for beating the Pats is accusing others of suffering from recency bias.

 

[602 Native]

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[Chopper0080]

I love the recency bias by the Geno and Darnold lovers. Two dudes that have never done anything at all in the NFL except bounce around the league for their whole careers.

Darnold hasn’t even had back to back good seasons ever in his career. Geno has as many tds as interceptions.

Keep this same energy when these two dudes crumble and plunge back to earth.

Geno Smith is 25 and 21 with a playoff appearance in this three years as a starter in Seattle. That is better than any three game stretch in Kyler's career. If anything, this is a slanderous comp for Geno, not Kyler.

 

[BirdGangThing]

i tried with murray but at the end of the day im a cardinal fan - not a kylernal fan

last year we said we'd give him this year - and we did - he has more tools than tim the tool man taylor but it appears nothing nothing has been fixed - infact he's regressed and for some reason runs a lot less

a top tier qb with this team would've won AT LEAST one of the last three games - there's no debating this - because top tier qbs are about more than these $10 dollar stats being pimped out here on asfn ave - they're about winning and doing everything it takes to do so

 

[BritCard]

I love the recency bias by the Geno and Darnold lovers. Two dudes that have never done anything at all in the NFL except bounce around the league for their whole careers.

Darnold hasn’t even had back to back good seasons ever in his career. Geno has as many tds as interceptions.

Keep this same energy when these two dudes crumble and plunge back to earth.

At least they have recent good seasons to have recency bias.

Kyler has 7 good games in 2021.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Absolutely gagged in two of his biggest games.

Doesn’t mean he can’t redeem himself.

Again had he lost on Sunday people would for sure be parroting the “He can’t win meaningful games”.

Since he won that game it’s “the game was meaningless”

There is a middle to this situation that the game mattered to keep us in the hunt. We will see if K1 can continue winning.

All the games from here on out matter. I think the point is he can't win a game when it's about clinching something. So we'll see how it plays out. I can tell you one thing is for sure everyone on this board wants him to succeed.

 

[602 Native]

All the games from here on our matter. I think the point is he can't win a game when it's about clinching something. So we'll see how it plays out. I can tell you one thing is for sure everyone on this board wants him to succeed.

I don’t doubt that at all about people on the board.

No one comes here to root for the Cards failing.

Let’s all hope we can run the table these last 3 games. That would be incredible for next season. I would even say JG would have earned himself an extension already.

 

[602 Native]

I don’t doubt that at all about people on the board.

No one comes here to root for the Cards failing.

Let’s all hope we can run the table these last 3 games. That would be incredible for next season. I would even say JG would have earned himself an extension already.

Oops thought JG was on a 3 year deal.

It’s 5.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[WisconsinCard]

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Just shows how much made up stats mean.

 

[PDXChris]

You're seriously going to argue that beating a 3-11 team is a meaningful win? The bar...it's underground at this point.

Yesterday I wouldn’t have said so, but missing Paris, Benson, Wilson and potentially White on the road in freezing temps says more with a win now.

 

[BritCard]

Can we stop with the "It's not Kyler, it's the supporting cast" takes now?

Chargers v Broncos had 550+ passing yards with dog crap at receiver on both sides. Nothing better than we have.

Also Bo Nix is already better than Kyler (Herbert already was).

 

[DVontel]

Can we stop with the "It's not Kyler, it's the supporting cast" takes now?

“We”?

Man, you’re just talking about one guy.

Just @ the guy(@602 Native) & stop clamoring for likes man lmao

 

[DVontel]

Thread should be changed to “@602 Native vs Everybody” since that is what it has been every time I step into this thread lol

 

[602 Native]

Can we stop with the "It's not Kyler, it's the supporting cast" takes now?

Chargers v Broncos had 550+ passing yards with dog crap at receiver on both sides. Nothing better than we have.

Also Bo Nix is already better than Kyler (Herbert already was).

Oh the recency bias is strong.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yesterday I wouldn’t have said so, but missing Paris, Benson, Wilson and potentially White on the road in freezing temps says more with a win now.

Everyone has injuries at this time of year. There is zero excuse for losing to a 3-11 team if you want to be considered a half decent team.

 

[Chopper0080]

Everyone has injuries at this time of year. There is zero excuse for losing to a 3-11 team if you want to be considered a half decent team.

Agreed.

 

[PDXChris]

Everyone has injuries at this time of year. There is zero excuse for losing to a 3-11 team if you want to be considered a half decent team.

I didn't say it was an excuse for a loss. I said it'll mean more when we win. There is no excuse if we lose, but losing or starting LT, both starting ILBs and only backup RB now is a lot to lose in a week. Winning will show this team is a team headed in the right direction.

And not all injuries are equal. Look at SF, they probably have been one of hardest and it's showing. Kitties has been their most durable player on offense this year, which is shocking!