The Rosen Problem

[GuernseyCard]

When do the Josh Rosen excuses stop?

'REASONS'

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You understand advanced analytics looks at the situation right?

That is these stats:


23rd in money throws
19th in interceptable passes
16 in danger plays (where QB took unnecessary risks)
30 in expected pass TDs
36 in Production Premium


His situation was definitely poor. Rosen's accuracy was also poor.

How much do you really believe he is going to improve here?

And with such a good team. David Johnson had a crap year also. Maybe we need to draft a RB in the early rounds also.

Begs the question. What were David Johnson's advanced analytics ?

I understand advanced analytics to the point where:

"23rd in money throws
19th in interceptable passes
16 in danger plays (where QB took unnecessary risks)
30 in expected pass TDs
36 in Production Premium"

are relative to a person's judgement.

But, for the sake of consistency what where David Johnson's numbers ? Larry Fitzgerald's numbers.

I think it is a fair question if we are going to judge on said analytics.


Ask for the stats because I do not know where to find them, and if you have to pay to see them, I am just not THAT interested, TBH.

EDIT: I missed that Sanders did mention Johnson earlier. Johnson's stats didn't seem to be as affected by the team situation as Rosen. Interesting to say the least.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

41st in YPC after what he did two years ago is finding success? You watched the games and thought Johnson had success?

I am looking at a variety of advanced analytics in all of this and league wide rankings.

So Johnson had areas in his game where he was still above average despite the situation

 

[Billy Bob]

You are welcome to go to any site and do the comparison yourself

Quick comparison:

Mayfield: 10 stats in the top 15. Most in the top 10

Sam Darnold: 2 stats in the top 10. Most in the 20s

Josh Allen 4 in the top 15. 3 in the top 10. Most in the 20s

Rosen. 0 in top 15. Most in the 30s

you compare apples to oranges, compare apples to apples, just rookies! Rookie stats against rookie stats!

 

[PJ1]

I am looking at a variety of advanced analytics in all of this and league wide rankings.

So Johnson had areas in his game where he was still above average despite the situation

If Johnson's drop off from two years ago is real and had nothing to do with the crap team and coaching, we need a running back badly.

 

[BW52]

It absolutely made a ton of difference. I 100% agree we have seen Rosen at his worst.

I just don't think his best is top 10 based on all of these facts.

We can totally win with Rosen in the right situation

Okay.Also it was 15 different guys who played OLINE last season
Andre Smith
Wetzel,Barksdale,Holden,Iupati,Gossett,Golditch,Obihambro,Aboushi, ,Humphries,Cunningham.Cole,Munyer,Pugh,Vujnovich

looks like the list of credits from a old Cecil B.DeMille movie.

 

[BW52]

It absolutely made a ton of difference. I 100% agree we have seen Rosen at his worst.

I just don't think his best is top 10 based on all of these facts.

We can totally win with Rosen in the right situation

Okay.Also it was 15 different guys who played OLINE last season
Andre Smith
Wetzel,Barksdale,Holden,Iupati,Gossett,Golditch,Obihambro,Aboushi, ,Humphries,Cunningham.Cole,Munyer,Pugh,Vujnovich

looks like the list of credits from a old Cecil B.DeMille movie.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Hmm...the Washington Redskins had 9 different offensive linemen in 2018 compared to 11 different offensive linemen for the Cardinals. Dolphins had a bunch of injuries as well.

Again without paying this is the closest I could get


In these 3 situations where big injuries hit the offensive linemen here would be the QB rankings

Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Brock Osweiler
Colt McCoy
Josh Rosen
Josh Johnson

It's not simply the number of lineman. It's the number of permutations as a result, and it was 10 in the Cards case. No team, no QB, can have success in those circumstances.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

So the more I am forced to analyze Kyler Murray, the more I have to look at Rosen.

Do we have a franchise QB already?

Not a single advanced stat above league average. Not a one.

The inaccuracy is staggering.

I like this approach, but it's only as good as the context - you should only compare rookies, for instance.

So I just looked at the summary pages of the 5 rookies - and it lines up with their draft number ironically (specifically as passers, ignored running for now). Mayfield is the clear winner, then Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson - but the gap between the middle 3 isn't substantial (actually, Allen is notable worse as a passer). But Buffalo and Baltimore adjusted their offensive game plan for their QBs - Jets couldn't (and staff was fired), Cards couldn't (and staff was fired).

Who has the absolute worst supporting cast? Rosen, and it isn't even close to the others (it's the worst in the NFL on this site).

 

[CardLogic]

What do Josh Rosen, Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman have in common??
Their rookie year stats were crap!


Now, what I am NOT saying, is that Rosen will be a great NFL QB! What I am saying is Josh Rosen's eventual NFL career performance can not possibly be determined by the train wreck that was the 2018 Arizona Cardinals!

 

[GuernseyCard]

What do Josh Rosen, Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman have in common??


Their rookie year stats were ****!

Now, what I am NOT saying, is that Rosen will be a great NFL QB! What I am saying is Josh Rosen's eventual NFL career performance can not possibly be determined by the train wreck that was the 2018 Arizona Cardinals!

You can add to the list: Steve Young, Joe Theismann, and Goff.

 

[Ohcrap75]

He wasn't awful by advanced stats. That is the point.

Which advanced stats prove this?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Guys, I am not your google. If you have questions or want to refute my points, please take the time to look it up youself.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Where is this advanced stat tree we are picking cherries from?

 

[Paso Fino]

There was a certain quarterback who started the first couple of games and was replaced by Rosen. The criticism of the replaced quarterback here was huge. I don't recall anyone giving him the excuses that Rosen is getting here.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Okay.Also it was 15 different guys who played OLINE last season
Andre Smith
Wetzel,Barksdale,Holden,Iupati,Gossett,Golditch,Obihambro,Aboushi, ,Humphries,Cunningham.Cole,Munyer,Pugh,Vujnovich

looks like the list of credits from a old Cecil B.DeMille movie.

Yes the article I read did say that it was olinemen that played meaningful snaps. Apparently some of those guys didn't qualify enough

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Where is this advanced stat tree we are picking cherries from?

Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick

Type in Google

Google "Drew Brees Advanced Stats:

Click on "Pro Football Focus"

Scroll down to career advanced Stats.

Compare away

Repeat process for any other questions you may have

 

[BigRedRage]

Neil Degrasse Tyson says if you spend more than 5 minutes debating, both parties are wrong.

I couldn't care less about changing peoples minds. I have no interest in giving up on Rosen unless he is terrible next year. LAst year means nothing to me. We gave up the capital to get him because we believed in him and he deserves a MINIMUM 2 years to show he can be the guy.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Guys, I am not your google. If you have questions or want to refute my points, please take the time to look it up youself.

I did, but my stats didn't count I guess

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I can also instruct you how to read the glossary of what the advanced stats mean if you like

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I did, but my stats didn't count I guess

You are using regular stats not advanced analytics. It's like drawing with crayons.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Neil Degrasse Tyson says if you spend more than 5 minutes debating, both parties are wrong.

I couldn't care less about changing peoples minds. I have no interest in giving up on Rosen unless he is terrible next year. LAst year means nothing to me. We gave up the capital to get him because we believed in him and he deserves a MINIMUM 2 years to show he can be the guy.

I would love to debate Mr Tyson for about 5 minutes on this subject haha

 

[BigRedRage]

I would love to debate Mr Tyson for about 5 minutes on this subject haha

if 5 minutes run out he will walk away

 

[Ohcrap75]

I can also instruct you how to read the glossary of what the advanced stats mean if you like

Go right ahead.... I'm all eyes!

 

[Jetstream Green]

Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick

Type in Google

Google "Drew Brees Advanced Stats:

Click on "Pro Football Focus"

Scroll down to career advanced Stats.

Compare away

Repeat process for any other questions you may have

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I still believe the guys on 98.7 read this board.

The day after someone posted the video about Rosen they were talking about it. I bet some of these stats hit their conversation