The Suns are at a crossroad of a culture change

[AzStevenCal]

Currently on pace to give up 132 to the lowly Wizards... you can really feeel the culture change.

Does anyone really expect evidence of a culture change this season? I don't know if it's going to happen or not long term but with a mid-season coaching change, a bad roster and a missing starter in a lost year, it's playing out the way many of us would expect it to. BTW, don't you feel a little greasy taking a cheap shot at them for losing when you've been pushing for them to do so? They are playing Beasley, no amount of culture change is going to fix the hole he creates on defense.

Steve

 

[Chaz]

A better offense would help the defensive numbers.

To many turnovers and the transition defense seems to be where they are struggling the worst. Not a good combo.

They really need a shooting guard in the worst way. They have a lot of wing players but no scoring from the guard position except Dragic.

 

[Phrazbit]

Does anyone really expect evidence of a culture change this season? I don't know if it's going to happen or not long term but with a mid-season coaching change, a bad roster and a missing starter in a lost year, it's playing out the way many of us would expect it to. BTW, don't you feel a little greasy taking a cheap shot at them for losing when you've been pushing for them to do so? They are playing Beasley, no amount of culture change is going to fix the hole he creates on defense.

Steve

I am tired of the lip service from the front office, saying things that are either completely unrealistic or making moves that fly in the face of their stated goals. To hear about their plan to make a defensive culture, then turn around and give up 127 on and endless stream of open looks to the lowest scoring team in the league (before the game at least, tonight's onslaught bumped them to 3rd worst), I think they're owed a couple kicks.

And yes, I think the loses are to the team's benefit, but they are not trying to lose, they just suck. Laughing at them and taking some shots is the only way I can deal with such ineptitude.

 

[HooverDam]

But, even worse, they previously put all of their eggs in the D'Antoni basket. His disrespect for all-around team skills led to us being a last place team.

This is such amazing nonsense. Its Mike D'Antoni's fault that the 2013 Suns are a last place team? Come on.

If this is the culture change you want, count me as not a fan. I'll take a team thats good in the community, good on the court, and a Top 5 winning percentage all time over a team that looks like a lost ship at sea, who treats its employees like garbage, who demolishes historic buildings for parking lots, doesn't treat its fans well and clearly lacks a plan.

You've obsessed for decades over this "Suns are soft we need a Center, go get a legit Center, they grow on trees!" silliness that you actually think the Suns are better off under this regime. Thats a pretty amazing delusion.

 

[BC867]

...you actually think the Suns are better off under this regime. Thats a pretty amazing delusion.

Better off than under D'Antoni isn't necessarily saying very much. With his offense-only/7-man rotations, he is a Coach for the short term and when it catches up with you, you have to start from scratch.

Yes, I hold him, as a Coach, accountable for where we are now. As well as the Front Office who, unlike the Knicks, put too much power in his hands.

My point was that D'Antoni left us in a deep hole. There's no delusion there.

 

[95pro]

what better way to start the culture change by trying to get Howard?

if he doesn't, and probably won't, come to phoenix then we just have to sit back another year again for some more draft talent.

but all we hear are words from our FO. we're doing this, doing that. all words, but their decisions that we have seen on the court don't substantiate a reason to have faith in our FO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I do think Shabazz, Oladipo, or McLemore would help.

have you watched a lot of Shabazz? I really don't think he's got much of an NBA game. He's not super athletic, he posts against smaller players in college that he won't get to do in the pros and he's pretty selfish.

with ya on Oladipo and McLemore tho.

 

[AzStevenCal]

have you watched a lot of Shabazz? I really don't think he's got much of an NBA game. He's not super athletic, he posts against smaller players in college that he won't get to do in the pros and he's pretty selfish.

with ya on Oladipo and McLemore tho.

I have mixed feelings on Oladipo. I liked him when he was mostly unknown, thought we might be able to get him with the 13th or 14th we were foolishly hoping to get from the Lakers. But, as a high pick, he has some huge holes in his game. I'd prefer several players over Victor including Marcus Smart, Otto Porter and Anthony Bennett.


Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I have mixed feelings on Oladipo. I liked him when he was mostly unknown, thought we might be able to get him with the 13th or 14th we were foolishly hoping to get from the Lakers. But, as a high pick, he has some huge holes in his game. I'd prefer several players over Victor including Marcus Smart, Otto Porter and Anthony Bennett.


Steve

I agree (other than the Bennett part). I am really concerned about Oladipo's ability to create his own shot. I love his D, he's getting much better as a shooter, but I have seen absolutely no evidence that he can create his own shot, which is something the Suns desperately need. We already have "D and 3" players in Dudley and Tucker, though Oladipo is much more athletic than either one of those, and probably a better shooter than Tucker. If we somehow end up with that late lottery pick, I'd like Oladipo, but not at #3 or 4, or even 5.

Otto Porter is a solid player, though not exactly what we need. I do think he'd make Dudley, Tucker, or Morris expendable, which could be used to get a shooting guard who can create his own shots. Marcus Smart, I think is going to end up being one hell of a player. I would love to see him and Dragic in the back court together.

Bennett has to many questions around him (can he guard 3s on the perimetar, can he guard 4s inside- hell, can he guard a chair?) Add his questionable durability (several injuries) and I wouldn't touch him until mid-first round.

I like Archie Goodwin a lot too, but he is NOT going to contribute much for a couple of years. I actually hope he stays in college for another year, but if he is available in the late first round, I'd take him knowing full well it will be a year or two before he can contribute. Caldwell-Pope is another one I'd go after in the late first round. He's a bit of a chucker, but I think he has potential to be one hell of a scorer.

 

[JCSunsfan]

have you watched a lot of Shabazz? I really don't think he's got much of an NBA game. He's not super athletic, he posts against smaller players in college that he won't get to do in the pros and he's pretty selfish.

with ya on Oladipo and McLemore tho.

My choices would be McLemore, Olapido, and Shabazz in that order. Shabazz has been considered a NBA caliber player for most of his high school years. I am not sure what it is about UCLA, but it seems to hide NBA potential. He has a Kobe type of personality (selfish), which can be good for his development but a problem too. I think Shabazz might be the most likely to have a long productive NBA career, but the other too have more upside and more bust potential.

I am not sure about Otto Porter. Players who are good at many things but don't excel at anything don't seem to transition well. Olapido is a very athletic defender who can shoot. McLemore is and athletic shooter who can defend. Shabazz is a supreme scorer with an NBA body.

I believe Noel is going to be a very good player, but he will not really develop for 4 years or so. This management team won't be that patient.

I had not really considered Marcus Smart so much because we have Dragic. If he could be effective with Dragic, I suppose that would be OK. I am nervous about players, especially pg's, with limited athletic ability. We also have Marshall. Not that that should matter I guess.

 

[AzStevenCal]

My choices would be McLemore, Olapido, and Shabazz in that order. Shabazz has been considered a NBA caliber player for most of his high school years. I am not sure what it is about UCLA, but it seems to hide NBA potential. He has a Kobe type of personality (selfish), which can be good for his development but a problem too. I think Shabazz might be the most likely to have a long productive NBA career, but the other too have more upside and more bust potential.

I am not sure about Otto Porter. Players who are good at many things but don't excel at anything don't seem to transition well. Olapido is a very athletic defender who can shoot. McLemore is and athletic shooter who can defend. Shabazz is a supreme scorer with an NBA body.

I believe Noel is going to be a very good player, but he will not really develop for 4 years or so. This management team won't be that patient.

I had not really considered Marcus Smart so much because we have Dragic. If he could be effective with Dragic, I suppose that would be OK. I am nervous about players, especially pg's, with limited athletic ability. We also have Marshall. Not that that should matter I guess.

I like Porter's ceiling but he's less developed than a lot of others in this draft so there's more guess than projection when you talk about him. At times he's part Brandon Roy and at others he'll remind you of a young Boris Diaw. As for Shabazz, I disagree that he has an NBA body. He has a mature body and it has a lot to do with his success in college but that's not the same thing as having an NBA body. He does excel in one critical area but I just don't know if he'll be able to do that when he's facing adults.

I mentioned Smart because I just like his all around game. I don't know if he has a position in the NBA but pair him with another combo guard such as Dragic and I think he could be a good player. Obviously there are other players I like but I figure we'll be drafting somewhere around 7th and Smart might be our best option there. Of course, a few other players will rise to the top with their upcoming tourney exposure.

Steve

 

[leclerc]

I hope they host a yard sale this summer and start next year with:

Dragic
Wesley Johnson
Draft pick
x Beasley (yeah why not)
x Haddadi and O'Neal for minimum deals
x The Morrisi
x PJ Tucker
x Kendall Marshall

x = optional. I want miss them if they're not here.

The rest should be moved for whatever we can get. We haven't reached the bottom yet. Not by a long shot.

 

[Phrazbit]

I realize he will probably still be here, purely because of his dumb contract, but I cant handle another year of Measley... watching him play hurts my soul. And if they real want to change to a culture built on defense and accountability, then he is the first player they should jettison.

 

[Finito]

Right now, the Suns suck, plain and simple. The good news is there is nowhere to go but up.

The bad news is that, throughout most of our four-and-a-half-decade long history, "up" has meant an entertaining offense and never building a legitimate Championship contender.

I like what Bob Young reported in his AzCentral/AzRepublic article today about the Suns being ready for a "change-up in their culture". That's pretty heavy stuff!

By turning the team over to a new Head Coach (apparently Lindsey Hunter is a lock to change his title from Interim to Permanent next season), the Front Office -- as flaky as they have been in the past -- is committed to rebuilding the team based on what it takes to be legitimately strong (as the fans call out) De/FENCE'.

Not building the team around a scatterbrained scorer who thinks he's a LeBron/Coby (controlling the ball on offense) but with no clue on defense -- I don't expect Michael Beasley to be back next season.

But stressing unrelenting defense at every position with solid team scoring.

I like it! And I congratulate the Front Office for having the gones to make this decision to, once and for all, change the Suns culture.

It won't be easy. But no matter which way they go, it won't be easy.

Here are the details.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/hea...r-hopeful-change-up-phoenix-suns-culture.html

The Suns have shown no sign of even having the slightest clue on how to build a team cheap and stupid is a very bad combination. Honestly as long as Server is hiring yes men and continue his cheap ways this is our fate.

The whole Lindsey hunter thing was a joke

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns have shown no sign of even having the slightest clue on how to build a team cheap and stupid is a very bad combination. Honestly as long as Server is hiring yes men and continue his cheap ways this is our fate.

The whole Lindsey hunter thing was a joke

And yet another person who falsely labels Sarver as cheap. Honestly, where does that come from? Stupid does NOT mean cheap.

 

[Mainstreet]

And yet another person who falsely labels Sarver as cheap. Honestly, where does that come from? Stupid does NOT mean cheap.

Sarver may not be cheap, but the Suns, to the best of my knowledge, have not chosen to pay top dollar to a coach or GM at least since D'Antoni. The Suns money would be best spent on decision makers who select the talent and run the team.

I do think Finito has one thing right,

The whole Lindsey hunter thing was a joke

 

[JustWinBaby]

A culture change, stressing defense, is the first step toward success. A new mission statement, so to speak. Then you fill in the parts. And, yes, it takes time.

Of course, we need a go-to scorer and, stupidly, the Front Office put all of their eggs in the Beasley basket.

But, even worse, they previously put all of their eggs in the D'Antoni basket. His disrespect for all-around team skills led to us being a last place team.

The higher we aim, the higher we go. And if the FO is bull$hitting us, or doesn't have the skill to make us stronger than just sneaking into the playoffs, we'd be no worse than we are right now.

At least this article indicates a new direction. It's about time!

"D'Antoni's coaching style made us a last place team?" W T F

That is the most insame statement I have ever read.

You really cannot be serious.

He has been gone for 4 years and not one player remains from his tenure at the helm. The last time there were remanants of his team and coaching style still around we made the WCF. Based on the current strategy and management skills I doubt we will be back there in the next decade.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Better off than under D'Antoni isn't necessarily saying very much. With his offense-only/7-man rotations, he is a Coach for the short term and when it catches up with you, you have to start from scratch.

Yes, I hold him, as a Coach, accountable for where we are now. As well as the Front Office who, unlike the Knicks, put too much power in his hands.

My point was that D'Antoni left us in a deep hole. There's no delusion there.

Unfreaking believeable. You really have no clue.

There has been one constant in our demise. Robert Sarver.

 

[Chaplin]

Sarver may not be cheap, but the Suns, to the best of my knowledge, have not chosen to pay top dollar to a coach or GM at least since D'Antoni. The Suns money would be best spent on decision makers who select the talent and run the team.

That's not saying much, especially re: coaches. They've only had 3, and they certainly did the right thing theoretically when they hired Porter as far as trying to change the mentality. Unfortunately, he was the wrong coach for this team and what happened? He was removed. It was an experiment that failed, but you can't fault the team for making it. Gentry was a decent coach for most of his tenure, so I don't see any issues with hiring him. And Hunter? Well, I'm not sold on him at all, but so what? Coaching is just one of many problems this team has.

Really it comes down to the front office hirings. I'm still not anti-Babby, but I can't really describe how much I dislike Blanks. Have we heard word one from the guy since Hunter's hiring?

 

[Chaplin]

Unfreaking believeable. You really have no clue.

There has been one constant in our demise. Robert Sarver.

That's a little weak. Yes, he has been a constant in our demise, but he certainly was a constant when we were producing the best Suns teams in our history back when Nash won his MVPs.

You can't put all the blame on him for our failures and then ignore the successes that he was a part of.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's a little weak. Yes, he has been a constant in our demise, but he certainly was a constant when we were producing the best Suns teams in our history back when Nash won his MVPs.

You can't put all the blame on him for our failures and then ignore the successes that he was a part of.

Actually, that seems to be a common theme around here (and it's probably not limited to "around here"). It's either all Dantoni's fault or he deserves all the credit. The only reason we were good is because of Steve Nash or Nash was the reason we couldn't win in the postseason. It holds true when you talk about Sarver or Stat or just about anyone else too. The truth is almost never the extreme, it's somewhere in the middle.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

they certainly did the right thing theoretically when they hired Porter as far as trying to change the mentality.

Actually, I think the way they've handled the head coaching position has been one of the biggest tellers of the front office's incompetence. The two "new" head coaches they've brought in are Porter and Hunter (Hunter first as an assistant); Porter was an abject failure and Hunter is looking like one. And no, it isn't because those coaches are "bad fits" or at odds with the "culture" -- it's because they don't have what it takes to be an NBA head coach.

Here are the qualifications for being a head coach, as far as this front office seems to be concerned:

1. Be a former NBA player who had a reputation of being at least adequate defensively.
2. Get some minimal experience as an assistant coach.
3. Say "I'm going to preach defense" in the job interview, and look earnest and thoughtful while doing it.

Presto! You're hired.

If you ask me whether I know a better way of choosing a coach, I'll say that I don't. On the other hand, I'm not an NBA executive. It's painfully clear that no one involved with the Suns has a clue on how to identify and recruit a good head coach, and the one good one they had who fell into their laps, they threw to the curb in order to make some sort of idiotic statement.

 

[Superbone]

Actually, I think the way they've handled the head coaching position has been one of the biggest tellers of the front office's incompetence. The two "new" head coaches they've brought in are Porter and Hunter (Hunter first as an assistant); Porter was an abject failure and Hunter is looking like one. And no, it isn't because those coaches are "bad fits" or at odds with the "culture" -- it's because they don't have what it takes to be an NBA head coach.

Here are the qualifications for being a head coach, as far as this front office seems to be concerned:

1. Be a former NBA player who had a reputation of being at least adequate defensively.
2. Get some minimal experience as an assistant coach.
3. Say "I'm going to preach defense" in the job interview, and look earnest and thoughtful while doing it.

Presto! You're hired.

Hunter was never an assistant coach. He was the player development guy. Hunter had never coached basketball on any level prior to getting the Suns' head coaching gig.

 

[Superbone]

This was the ninth time this season that the Suns have lost by at least 25 points, the most in franchise history.

Welcome to our new culture.

 

[Phrazbit]

And 6 of those 9 have come under Hunter (in a mere 29 games). I saw on bright side that our average margin of defeat has gone from 9 points under Gentry to 17 under Hunter. Good to know he is preaching effort and accountability.