The Suns vs. Manu

[elindholm]

Okay, you can keep massaging the evidence to suit your position. It's all the rage nowadays anyway. Maybe you can work in Washington.

NBA players are almost never "100%," because the game is just too punishing. If someone suffers two different injuries in close succession, it's easy to blame the second injury on the first, but that's rarely correct.

 

[jibikao]

I thought you guys said Manu flopped and hurt Barbosa in the first matchup? I am not sure how he got injured the 2nd time but he didn't look all that "ready" to me when he came back.

Either way, Manu kneed Dirk too in WCF and I think Nash probably hates Manu for the injuries he's caused! Intention or not, it's a fact that he caused those injuries and there is a reason to hate him. We are not the only ones that hate him.

 

[nowagimp]

I thought you guys said Manu flopped and hurt Barbosa in the first matchup? I am not sure how he got injured the 2nd time but he didn't look all that "ready" to me when he came back.

Either way, Manu kneed Dirk too in WCF and I think Nash probably hates Manu for the injuries he's caused! Intention or not, it's a fact that he caused those injuries and there is a reason to hate him. We are not the only ones that hate him.

He wasnt ready when he came back, a republic reporter stated he left the practice court the day before in pain after trying to play one on one(sound familiar to the second injury). He reinjured the knee that Manu flopped on trying to make a one-on-one move. The idea that the two injuries "didnt have anything to do with each other" is an ignorant statement: once you have an injury, you are at much higher risk to reinjure or to injure something else trying to compensate. Those who believe the suns trainers, who said "he didnt come back too soon", I ask when have you heard of trainers of ANY team say(we screwed up) "we brought him back too soon". Only the gullible will believe this "story" after spraining a knee ligament 3 weeks earlier.

 

[nowagimp]

Okay, you can keep massaging the evidence to suit your position. It's all the rage nowadays anyway. Maybe you can work in Washington.

NBA players are almost never "100%," because the game is just too punishing. If someone suffers two different injuries in close succession, it's easy to blame the second injury on the first, but that's rarely correct.

Obviously, has never played the game. He stretched the same knee twice within 3 weeks, wake up.

 

[elindholm]

Obviously, has never played the game.

I've played plenty, thank you. I can't say I've played well, but I've played and still do, although I've switched mainly to racquetball now.

I've even had to deal with coming back from a major injury (ruptured Achilles tendon). Because the injury was improperly diagnosed for six weeks, I've built up a lot of scar tissue, and I know that my left ankle/lower calf will never again be "100%." But if something happens later on and I suffer a different injury to the same general area, I'm not going to blame the first injury.

He stretched the same knee twice within 3 weeks, wake up.

Different parts of the knee. Besides, how does having a healthy knee prevent you from slipping on a slick floor? Everyone says -- now -- that Barbosa was favoring the knee before the second injury, but I was watching the game and I didn't see it. If Stoudemire comes back, then gets into an automobile accident that crushes his repaired knee, will that prove that he came back too soon?

It's always the player who wants to come back too soon and the medical staff that holds him back. Trainers have all sorts of tests they can do to make sure that the injured area has close to its full proper range of strength and flexibility. They have diagnostic tests that go far beyond anything most of us will ever be exposed to or need to know about. And they know that tens of millions of dollars are on the line if they get impatient while clearing someone to play. I think that the chances that they were wrong in Barbosa's case are very, very low.

However, one good thing about consipracy theories is that they cannot be disproved. So if you want to argue that the entire Suns organization is involved in a massive cover-up about Barbosa's knee, that is your right.

And finally, even if there is a cover-up, and Barbosa was somehow allowed to come back too soon, and that put him at elevated risk for a second injury ... it's not Ginobili's fault. Like I say, I don't like Ginobili either, but I'd prefer that we not cheapen our position by blaming him for things that are completely out of his control or influence. (Oh, I heard he was behind 9/11.)

Anyway, I'll drop it.

 

[Shawty]

I've never met anybody that likes him.

That POS crippled LB!!!!!

You must not get outmuch. And "cripple"? I hardly think Barbosa was in some full-body cast after encouterin' the ever-dangerous, ever-ferocious monster of a brute named Manu.

 

[Shawty]

He was voted into the All-Star game by "the fans".

Misinformation abounds, apparently. Ginobili was never voted by the fans into the All-Star game.

I stand corrected. You are right. I forgot about that one. however, why don't you tell your friend who actually voted him in. Please do that for me, will ya?

 

[Shawty]

Either way, Manu kneed Dirk too in WCF and I think Nash probably hates Manu for the injuries he's caused! Intention or not, it's a fact that he caused those injuries and there is a reason to hate him. We are not the only ones that hate him.

This was covered. Manu didn't "knee" Dirk. I have it on DVD. Kneein' someone is an intentional action. If you bang knees that's different. Of course, if you DON'T PLAY THIS GAME YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. Funny, all the other teams that hate him got put outta' playoffs because of his play in the series. It's NOT a coincidence. Sorta' like how everyone despised Kobe Bryant in SA for killin' Spur teams all those years.

 

[jibikao]

This was covered. Manu didn't "knee" Dirk. I have it on DVD. Kneein' someone is an intentional action. If you bang knees that's different. Of course, if you DON'T PLAY THIS GAME YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. Funny, all the other teams that hate him got put outta' playoffs because of his play in the series. It's NOT a coincidence. Sorta' like how everyone despised Kobe Bryant in SA for killin' Spur teams all those years.

I didn't say Manu did it on purpose but it's a fact that he injured Dirk in WCF. Intentional or not, nobody likes it when your best player got injured in such important games. If Manu did it on our important players, I wonder if you would laugh too.

I watch NBA, I don't play that often and even if I do, I am not at NBA's level just like everybody here. I don't find that SO FUNNY like you do.

And for your information, I don't despise Kobe. In fact, I don't understand why people bash him so much. I am not anti-Kobe or a fan of Kobe, netural.

 

[F-Dog]

That idiot troll still hasn't been banned yet?


I'll reluctantly agree with nowagimp that the Suns had a part to play in Barbosa's re-injury. Remember the set-up--Barbosa's knee still not right, he got too many minutes the night before, I think he played 30+ in the second game of a back-to-back (I wouldn't have played him at all in that game, if it were my decision), and he's out there at the end of the game, exhausted, desperately trying to make a play. The Suns had drained him to the point where he was going to take the worst of whatever happened, which turned out to be a wet spot instead of a collision or something else. It didn't strike me as being a 'freak' injury at all, though.


Anyway, the Phx fans are more concerned about player injuries than Suns management, so Ginobili can expect to be persona non grata in Phoenix for a while, thanks to his half-time flop into Barbosa's knee in the previous game. It's nice to see the Suns players back that up a little, instead of just waiting for karma to catch up like with Fortson.

 

[boisesuns]

That idiot troll still hasn't been banned yet?


.

If we stop talking about the spurs, we'll be fine.

 

[haverford]

However, one good thing about consipracy theories is that they cannot be disproved. So if you want to argue that the entire Suns organization is involved in a massive cover-up about Barbosa's knee, that is your right.

And finally, even if there is a cover-up, and Barbosa was somehow allowed to come back too soon, and that put him at elevated risk for a second injury ... it's not Ginobili's fault. Like I say, I don't like Ginobili either, but I'd prefer that we not cheapen our position by blaming him for things that are completely out of his control or influence. (Oh, I heard he was behind 9/11.)

Anyway, I'll drop it.

I know you want to drop it and I respect that, but I think it is worth pointing out that we're not really talking about a conspiracy theory per se, with all the back-room-cloak-and-dagger atmospherics that connotes. This strikes me as nothing more than a simple case of cover your ass on the part of the Suns. There is evidence for this, insofar as LB was complaining of pain the day before his re-injury and then the somewhat implausible denial that he was brought back too soon. And there is a pattern here, as there were audible murmurs that JJ was being brought back too soon in the playoff series with the Spurs. It's not hard to conclude, circumstantially, that a training staff would want to deflect blame/liability. Perfectly natural and probably easy to do, without the necessity of a consciously crafted conspiracy.

 

[nowagimp]

You must not get outmuch. And "cripple"? I hardly think Barbosa was in some full-body cast after encouterin' the ever-dangerous, ever-ferocious monster of a brute named Manu.

Loading the knee from the side when the leg is planted(as Manu unintentionally did) is the easiest was to tear knee ligaments. I could fall on manu that way and end his career. It was just an innocent flop, so no hard feelings. I do suspect that the league office has it and other flops on film, however. I expect Manu to get the Yao(moving screen) treatment from the refs now. While watching saturday nights game it seemed that the refs have already responded.

 

[Shawty]

Intentional or not, nobody likes it when your best player got injured in such important games.

True true...You guys kicked our backside when Duncan was out in the 2000 playoffs.

If Manu did it on our important players, I wonder if you would laugh too.

That's the point jibikao. Your insinuations were as if Manu did it on purpose. Injuries happen. It’s unfortunate. Spur fans weren’t glad to see Dirk go down. They knew that it would give the Mavs an excuse. Which it did? Some still milk it as if they were gonna win that series. I don’t rejoice when players are seriously injured.

I watch NBA, I don't play that often and even if I do, I am not at NBA's level just like everybody here. I don't find that SO FUNNY like you do.

What did I find “SO FUNNY”? Certainly not anyone’s lack of playin’ experience. I laughed because you were so adamant that Manu “kneed” Dirk when that is not what happened at all.

And for your information, I don't despise Kobe. In fact, I don't understand why people bash him so much. I am not anti-Kobe or a fan of Kobe, netural.

When did I say you despised Kobe. Please re-read my post.

 

[Shawty]

That idiot troll still hasn't been banned yet?

I thought you had me on ignore? And before you call me a troll, let me know what I’ve done other than disagree with you?

Anyway, the Phx fans are more concerned about player injuries than Suns management, so Ginobili can expect to be persona non grata in Phoenix for a while, thanks to his half-time flop into Barbosa's knee in the previous game. It's nice to see the Suns players back that up a little, instead of just waiting for karma to catch up like with Fortson.

And booin’ will help how? Didn't seem to affect Manu all that much.

 

[Shawty]

Loading the knee from the side when the leg is planted(as Manu unintentionally did) is the easiest was to tear knee ligaments. I could fall on manu that way and end his career. It was just an innocent flop, so no hard feelings. I do suspect that the league office has it and other flops on film, however. I expect Manu to get the Yao(moving screen) treatment from the refs now. While watching saturday nights game it seemed that the refs have already responded.

First off, how would you describe the way the contact between Manu and Dirk happened, since you seem to have seen it? The way that you describe it is almost as if Manu waited for Dirk's knee to be "planted" and banged up against his leg. Manu would have to be awfully quick and skilled ot do all of this in such a fast-paced game.

 

[Shawty]

If we stop talking about the spurs, we'll be fine.

I actually am a b-ball man FIRST. I know a lot about the Suns too. Not just today's Suns. I can go back to Larry Nance, Tom Chambers, Kevin Johnson (one of my favs), and I remember (through film) the triple overtime in the Finals(gar Heard).

 

[jibikao]

True true...You guys kicked our backside when Duncan was out in the 2000 playoffs.

That's the point jibikao. Your insinuations were as if Manu did it on purpose. Injuries happen. It’s unfortunate. Spur fans weren’t glad to see Dirk go down. They knew that it would give the Mavs an excuse. Which it did? Some still milk it as if they were gonna win that series. I don’t rejoice when players are seriously injured.



What did I find “SO FUNNY”? Certainly not anyone’s lack of playin’ experience. I laughed because you were so adamant that Manu “kneed” Dirk when that is not what happened at all.



When did I say you despised Kobe. Please re-read my post.

It's not an intentional but you wonder why Suns/Mavs players hate Manu so much 'cause he DOES cause injuries (Dirk and Barbosa). It's just another reason to hate him besides his ridiculous flopping.

You don't know what would have happened if Dirk didn't go down so don't say it gave Mavs an excuse. When Duncan was injured in the playoffs, I am sure that gave Spurs fans an excuse "oh, well, we don't have Duncan". This goes to every team and every fan. If you want Mavs fans to admit they lost fairly, don't injure Dirk and see what would happen.

 

[jibikao]

I actually am a b-ball man FIRST. I know a lot about the Suns too. Not just today's Suns. I can go back to Larry Nance, Tom Chambers, Kevin Johnson (one of my favs), and I remember (through film) the triple overtime in the Finals(gar Heard).

Are you a Suns fan?

 

[Shawty]

Are you a Suns fan?

Actually I'm Spurs man. But I LUVVVVVV b-ball. I am a big fan of KJ's game. One of the toughest little guys to ever play. Phx. had many great players that I still really like. To see how much I paid attention, check my next thread that I start. You will see that I'm not a troll!

 

[Shawty]

You don't know what would have happened if Dirk didn't go down so don't say it gave Mavs an excuse. When Duncan was injured in the playoffs, I am sure that gave Spurs fans an excuse "oh, well, we don't have Duncan". This goes to every team and every fan. If you want Mavs fans to admit they lost fairly, don't injure Dirk and see what would happen.

Do you think the Mavs would've beat the Spurs if Dirk hadn't went down? They were already losin' when he went out!

 

[jibikao]

Do you think the Mavs would've beat the Spurs if Dirk hadn't went down? They were already losin' when he went out!

I don't like to guess what "could have" happened. All I know is Mavs built the team around Dirk and he went down. Don't give me BS that Dirk's injury had no effect on the team. And yes, Manu KNEED him. It's the fact and I hate Manu for it.

 

[jibikao]

Actually I'm Spurs man. But I LUVVVVVV b-ball. I am a big fan of KJ's game. One of the toughest little guys to ever play. Phx. had many great players that I still really like. To see how much I paid attention, check my next thread that I start. You will see that I'm not a troll!

Well, I have two news for you:

1.) This is not a NBA General forum.

2.) KJ is not playing now.

Why are you here? Trolling? lol

 

[Shawty]

I don't like to guess what "could have" happened. All I know is Mavs built the team around Dirk and he went down. Don't give me BS that Dirk's injury had no effect on the team. And yes, Manu KNEED him. It's the fact and I hate Manu for it.

On that note, i'm done talkin'.