The Suns with the 2018 #1 overall pick select....

[Mainstreet]

But he was no speed demon. He couldn’t keep up with a first step kj, Isaiah, Hardaway. It doesn’t make him any less incredible. That just wasn’t one of his many super powers.

Magic was certainly not a speed demon. However, his game was not about beating players off the dribble. His game was about team basketball and beating an opponent any way possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Magic was certainly not a speed demon. However, his game was not about beating players off the dribble. His game was about team basketball and beating an opponent any way possible.

Of course that wasn’t his game. (A) he wasn’t built for it and (B) he didn’t need it. He had a preternatural ability to see things transpire before they actually happened, could make pinpoint passes, and had an enormous size (not only height but weight/strength) advantage over 67% percent of the players in the court.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I can say this about Magic, he could do whatever he wanted on the basketball court. He didn't need to beat players off the dribble because he would do whatever it took to beat an opponent. And he made it look easy. He was so smooth, it looked like he played in slow motion. Believe me, Magic was not slow.

Never said he was slow...but he was definitely NOT quick. Hence why I'm comparing Doncic to him, he does the same thing.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is the first I’ve seen Doncic explicitly state he prefers to play pg. I don’t know if that’s agent positioning or truth, but it helps to partially dispel a lot of people arguing he’s not a pg.

He has no chance to stay in front of other PGs in the NBA. They will eat him alive. Him saying that doesn’t dispel anything. Especially now that everyone wants a speedster PG to push it up the court.

 

[Mainstreet]

Of course that wasn’t his game. (A) he wasn’t built for it and (B) he didn’t need it. He had a preternatural ability to see things transpire before they actually happened, could make pinpoint passes, and had an enormous size (not only height but weight/strength) advantage over 67% percent of the players in the court.

It sounds like we agree except I think Magic was faster than a lot of younger fans think.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He has no chance to stay in front of other PGs in the NBA. They will eat him alive. Him saying that doesn’t dispel anything. Especially now that everyone wants a speedster PG to push it up the court.

Don’t need a speedster to push up the court. Need a guy who can go get the rebound, find the push pass, and make the pass. Gus like Magic and Lonzo excel(led) at this and make their teams fast without being fast themselves.

And whether he can stay in front of other pgs is pointless. How many pgs in the league can stay in front of premier pgs? You can likely list them on a single hand - and even then those guys get lit up on occasion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It sounds like we agree except I think Magic was faster than a lot of younger fans think.

I’m not a younger fan. He had loping speed due to his strides but not quick burst speed.

 

[sunsfan88]

Here's a really good article on Doncic that includes Steve Nash calling him a "dream prospect".

https://sports.yahoo.com/luka-doncic-might-safest-pick-nba-draft-144228512.html

Interesting that Steve Nash and Charles Barkley both are supporting two guys that have games similars to theirs from their prime.

Nash certainly comes off much more intelligent than Chuck.

 

[Covert Rain]

Don’t need a speedster to push up the court. Need a guy who can go get the rebound, find the push pass, and make the pass. Gus like Magic and Lonzo excel(led) at this and make their teams fast without being fast themselves.

And whether he can stay in front of other pgs is pointless. How many pgs in the league can stay in front of premier pgs? You can likely list them on a single hand - and even then those guys get lit up on occasion.

That’s not what I mean. I am saying with the push in the NBA to have PG push the ball, speed at that position has been the focus of many teams.

As a result, players like Doncic have no shot at staying in front of the guys on defense night in and night out. We are not just talking about premium PGs. He is going to struggle and be a big time liability on the other end.

Your team is going to be forced to either play out of position on defense or rotate constantly to cover him. Good luck with that.

 

[Hoop Head]

Interesting that Steve Nash and Charles Barkley both are supporting two guys that have games similars to theirs from their prime.

Nash certainly comes off much more intelligent than Chuck.

Who has Chuck endorsed? I don't recall hearing of anyone. Nash backing Doncic makes sense. He's been compared to Nash in some degree with his court vision. We'll see if he can be a PG, it's odd that he thinks he can be or will be but Kokoskov said differently. I trust the coach more than the player looking to keep their stock as high as possible.


Also with Magic speed, I don't think he was fast but I think he was quick. He had a quick first step, he get move the ball quickly, and he saw plays develop quickly as well. That isn't to say he was fast though. There is a difference between quickness and speed. Quickness to me is a players ability to move while in position, either moving one or the other, or moving their extremities. Like I said, Magic was quick at getting the ball away with his hands or his first step while trying to catch a defender off guard. He didn't have great foot speed once he got moving though. Once he was moving his speed while driving wasn't anything special and quite average for someone of his size. Barbosa was fast, Nash was quick, for another way to describe the two things and their differences.

 

[sunsfan88]

Who has Chuck endorsed? I don't recall hearing of anyone. Nash backing Doncic makes sense. He's been compared to Nash in some degree with his court vision. We'll see if he can be a PG, it's odd that he thinks he can be or will be but Kokoskov said differently. I trust the coach more than the player looking to keep their stock as high as possible.

“If you don’t take Deandre Ayton, you’re just an idiot,” Charles said of the Suns choice. “He is scary.”

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...cic-where-his-nacho-cheese-was-definitely-hot

 

[pokerface]

Ok I know this is going to stink but I'm having second thoughts about Ayton. I mean is this guy going to be shooting jumpers all the time and getting burned on the defensive end? Will he play like a center??

Part of me is thinking JJJ is the one we want. He plays both sides of the ball and is versatile. He fits today's NBA.


Someone talk me down from the ledge!

 

[Hoop Head]

Ok I know this is going to stink but I'm having second thoughts about Ayton. I mean is this guy going to be shooting jumpers all the time and getting burned on the defensive end? Will he play like a center??

Part of me is thinking JJJ is the one we want. He plays both sides of the ball and is versatile. He fits today's NBA.


Someone talk me down from the ledge!

Watch how Rudy Gobert played on offense for Utah. They're not the same player but Kokoskov was a very large part of establishing their offense. That's how he uses Centers. Unfortunately the season's over and it'd be hard to find full games where you could watch all of Utah's Centers.

 

[sunsfan88]

I hope Ayton isn’t used the same way Gobert offensively. Ayton has better range and can do just about everything better offensively than Gobert already imo.

They should look at how the Sixers use Embiid and replicate that with Ayton.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ok I know this is going to stink but I'm having second thoughts about Ayton. I mean is this guy going to be shooting jumpers all the time and getting burned on the defensive end? Will he play like a center??

Part of me is thinking JJJ is the one we want. He plays both sides of the ball and is versatile. He fits today's NBA.


Someone talk me down from the ledge!

Watch clips of Ayton rag dolling virtually everyone who defended him in the post. If not for Arizona's pathetic guard play he probably would have put up another 6-8 points per game. He's the most physically dominant college big man since Shaq... and he was a freshman. Over the next few seasons he's only going to get stronger.

Barring injury (which can apply to anyone, and Ayton has shown no signs of), IMO Ayton is, at worst, going to be an offensive and rebounding monster who plays defense in spurts. Basically, a better version of Cousins.

I seriously think that is his floor.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Watch clips of Ayton rag dolling virtually everyone who defended him in the post. If not for Arizona's pathetic guard play he probably would have put up another 6-8 points per game. He's the most physically dominant college big man since Shaq... and he was a freshman. Over the next few seasons he's only going to get stronger.

Barring injury (which can apply to anyone, and Ayton has shown no signs of), IMO Ayton is, at worst, going to be an offensive and rebounding monster who plays defense in spurts. Basically, a better version of Cousins.

I seriously think that is his floor.

Agreed. He is already more talented offensively than probably 98% of centers in the NBA just based on his college tape. And I'm saying that based on fundamentals of offensive basketball, not on his ability to just physically overpower weaker college players.

JJJ can shoot the 3 and block shots, but he isn't going to be overpowering NBA big men like Ayton will right off the bat. Which means that JJJ is a projection....he could never get much stronger and struggle against bigger NBA players. The same can't be applied to Ayton because he already can overpower a lot of NBA big men.

I'm very much intrigued by Doncic/Young as well, but I just can't pass on a center that has Shaq-like potential. I would say that there is a 90% you will regret passing on Ayton if you do.

 

[Mainstreet]

I’m not a younger fan. He had loping speed due to his strides but not quick burst speed.

I'm not sure it mattered the way he played. I never said Magic was a speed demon. However, Magic was quick/fast enough to do whatever he wanted. Speed in basketball is relative.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure it mattered the way he played. I never said Magic was a speed demon. However, Magic was quick/fast enough to do whatever he wanted. Speed in basketball is relative.

Agreed. And in relation to fast pg’s magic wasn’t fast. He still dominated them. But not based on speed. And no, the speed didn’t matter. As I stated his other advantages were so great so as to minimize any average element of his game.

 

[slinslin]

Interesting that Steve Nash and Charles Barkley both are supporting two guys that have games similars to theirs from their prime.

Nash certainly comes off much more intelligent than Chuck.

Nash never even said anything regarding who he prefers.

 

[1tinsoldier]

imo, the bottom line on Doncic is
1. he's likely to be the best passer and decision maker on his team and should have the ball in his hand about as often as most point guards.
2. many of the best point guards were not known for being fast or athletic, e.g. Magic, Nash, Stockton...
3. ...or great defenders. interior team defense should compensate.
4. he's likely to be a star. 20 points, 9 assists.
5. he will become more valuable to his team with age and experience. making everyone better with his leadership and decision-making

 

[elindholm]

imo, the bottom line on Doncic is
1. he's likely to be the best passer and decision maker on his team and should have the ball in his hand about as often as most point guards.
2. many of the best point guards were not known for being fast or athletic, e.g. Magic, Nash, Stockton...
3. ...or great defenders. interior team defense should compensate.
4. he's likely to be a star. 20 points, 9 assists.
5. he will become more valuable to his team with age and experience. making everyone better with his leadership and decision-making

I think all of those are plausible except #4. No way will Doncic ever be a 20 ppg scorer.

Also, even though I'm not high on Doncic, I'm pretty confident in his defense. He'll compete and be smart on that end of the floor.

 

[pokerface]

Watch clips of Ayton rag dolling virtually everyone who defended him in the post. If not for Arizona's pathetic guard play he probably would have put up another 6-8 points per game. He's the most physically dominant college big man since Shaq... and he was a freshman. Over the next few seasons he's only going to get stronger.

Barring injury (which can apply to anyone, and Ayton has shown no signs of), IMO Ayton is, at worst, going to be an offensive and rebounding monster who plays defense in spurts. Basically, a better version of Cousins.

I seriously think that is his floor.

Ok....haha...I'm feeling better again!

 

[1tinsoldier]

I think all of those are plausible except #4. No way will Doncic ever be a 20 ppg scorer.

he's got moves. and he'll add more. but i'm willing to go 17 ppg

 

[pokerface]

Nash never even said anything regarding who he prefers.

Welcome back...just in time for the draft!

 

[elindholm]

he's got moves. and he'll add more. but i'm willing to go 17 ppg

For someone his size, "moves" aren't going to get him far unless he's also agile enough to beat people off the dribble, which he isn't and won't ever be. Doncic is going to have a hard time creating quality shots for himself in the NBA. He may turn out to be a good facilitator, but he'll never be a primary scorer.