The Suns with the 2018 #1 overall pick select....

[BC867]

I guess I read it that way because Koko isn’t the decision maker, he’s the head coach. So his knowledge is just another source of information. I don’t see it as incomplete because McD is the one tasked with making the call not koko.

And it could be said that the neophyte McDonough is not the decision maker either. Rather, the investor who fashioned himself as knowing more than a General Manager and surrounding himself with strong management.

Usually, a GM's responsibility is putting together a roster that fits the new Head Coach. With the lack of continuity of Head Coaches over recent years, and our having the #1 pick, certainly this year is an exception. You go with a generational Center to not only end the 8-year run of not making the playoffs but to change the image of the Suns.

Otherwise, Koko would have definitely had a significant vote in our first pick. And the Suns would have continued to be a Wing and Guard heavy talent team.

To me, that is so significant about getting the #1 pick. Our once-in-a-half-century opportunity to change the Suns placid image. I never thought I'd see it happen.

 

[sunsfan88]

For all those that want to see a twin towers approach (which I think is a waste) I'm sure you'll get to see it occasionally next season with Ayton and Chandler.

I forget Chandler is even on the team sometimes. His vacation basically starts once the season starts.

 

[BC867]

I forget Chandler is even on the team sometimes. His vacation basically starts once the season starts.

Chandler was the victim of Suns tanking for (parts of) the past two seasons.

If you want to make him a scapegoat, that is your option. But I believes he deserves more respect than your "vacation" comment. Especially considering that he is obviously in the twilight of his career.

The addition of Tyson Chandler was the difference maker in the Dallas winning their championship. But he was in the prime of his career at the time. By the time the Suns got him, it was too late.

 

[sunsfan88]

Chandler was the victim of Suns tanking for (parts of) the past two seasons.

If you want to make him a scapegoat, that is your option. But I believes he deserves more respect than your "vacation" comment. Especially considering that he is obviously in the twilight of his career.

The addition of Tyson Chandler was the difference maker in the Dallas winning their championship. But he was in the prime of his career at the time. By the time the Suns got him, it was too late.

Yeah I meant at this point in his career, he certainly doesn't stand out. And has missed quite a bit of games over the last 2 seasons as well.

Not making him the scapegoat, this team certainly had problems well beyond him.

 

[sunsfan88]

Certainly the right mentality to have

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[GatorAZ]

Not saying Chandler is untouchable but having his last year here with Ayton will be huge. If we’re sending out an expiring it has to be Dudley.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Certainly the right mentality to have

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I'll be honest, as a big Ayton honk, this comment along with his "entertainer" comments don't give me warm fuzzies, but I still take him 10 times out of 10.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'll be honest, as a big Ayton honk, this comment along with his "entertainer" comments don't give me warm fuzzies, but I still take him 10 times out of 10.

I don't see the problem with this comment. He's basically saying that nothing's given and that he needs to work hard just so he can earn the next contract as opposed to being complacent and assuming that his talent and status as the #1 pick alone will lead to him staying in the league for a long time.

The entertainer comments raised some eyebrows but I don't see the issue with this comment, and actually see it in a positive light.

 

[Superbone]

Quiz:
Which 2018 NBA Draft Prospect Do You Prefer?
https://www.nba.com/suns/draft/which-2018-nba-draft-prospect-do-you-prefer-0

My result: Trae Young
they got it right in regards to my style preference
but i do believe Ayton is the best value

Notice that you just get a lone picture of Ayton when he is selected while when you get Doncic, there are 3 huge paragraphs about him. Thought that was strange.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'll be honest, as a big Ayton honk, this comment along with his "entertainer" comments don't give me warm fuzzies, but I still take him 10 times out of 10.

There's another comment that also raises my concern level over him. It was in that players interview that someone linked here a few days ago. Near the end of the interview, CJ turned it over to Ayton to ask his own questions. Deandre then asked Mccollum how he stayed motivated once he got his money.

From comments he's made, I also worry that he is apparently devoted to video games. The more I read about Towns the more clearly it seems to me that his level of gaming obsession is interfering with his development and play. I'd hate to see Ayton go down the same way.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Not saying Chandler is untouchable but having his last year here with Ayton will be huge. If we’re sending out an expiring it has to be Dudley.

No one is taking these two contracts and I have my doubts about Chandler helping Ayton. If Chandler plays more then ten minutes a game next year I'll curse.

 

[Folster]

Link?

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Otherwise, Koko would have definitely had a significant vote in our first pick. And the Suns would have continued to be a Wing and Guard heavy talent team.

You keep pounding this conjecture like it’s truth. Nowhere has koko stated that he would take Doncic. That’s your guess. And frankly MY guess is that your guess is wrong. He coached Doncic, he didn’t give birth and raise him. This is koko’s First gig as head coach. He’s not going to gamble that on a kid just because he likes him. If koko had the chance and put in the time to learn about Ayton and Ayton was the obvious best player I can’t imagine any coach taking the lesser player just because of relationship.

 

[BC867]

You keep pounding this conjecture like it’s truth. Nowhere has koko stated that he would take Doncic. That’s your guess. And frankly MY guess is that your guess is wrong. He coached Doncic, he didn’t give birth and raise him. This is koko’s First gig as head coach. He’s not going to gamble that on a kid just because he likes him. If koko had the chance and put in the time to learn about Ayton and Ayton was the obvious best player I can’t imagine any coach taking the lesser player just because of relationship.

I lived the days when Suns coach John MacLeod drafted the guy he coached at Oklahoma University as a 212 lb. Center ... and kept him at that position for a decade. That is history! Alvan Adams' best year statistically was his rookie year. He was a novelty. He declined from there. Because, by the second year, the rest of the NBA stopped sending their Centers 18 feet out to guard the guy with the skinniest arms on the court.

Which defined the Suns for a half century as primarily a small ball team. With very few exceptions, our best players every year have been Wings and Guards. Right now the only exception I can think of was the Chuckster.

That, Ouchie, is why I don't want to see our new Coach draft the player he coached (a Wing) #1 instead of the big man of the decade and set the tone for another fifty years of futility.

That is why, until 4:00 tomorrow, I am wary. When we choose Ayton, it's all water under the bridge. And I'll believe in (and enjoy) a new Suns era.

 

[elindholm]

He coached Doncic, he didn’t give birth and raise him. This is koko’s First gig as head coach. He’s not going to gamble that on a kid just because he likes him.

For that matter, he has to talk Doncic up in case McDonough/Sarver go insane and he ends up being stuck with him.

 

[GatorAZ]

I'll be honest, as a big Ayton honk, this comment along with his "entertainer" comments don't give me warm fuzzies, but I still take him 10 times out of 10.

He’s just immature and doesn’t realize the enormity of the situation yet, IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

I lived the days when Suns coach John MacLeod drafted the guy he coached at Oklahoma University as a 212 lb. Center ... and kept him at that position for a decade. That is history! Alvan Adams' best year statistically was his rookie year. He was a novelty. He declined from there. Because, by the second year, the rest of the NBA stopped sending their Centers 18 feet out to guard the guy with the skinniest arms on the court.

Which defined the Suns for a half century as primarily a small ball team. With very few exceptions, our best players every year have been Wings and Guards. Right now the only exception I can think of was the Chuckster.

That, Ouchie, is why I don't want to see our new Coach draft the player he coached (a Wing) #1 instead of the big man of the decade and set the tone for another fifty years of futility.

That is why, until 4:00 tomorrow, I am wary. When we choose Ayton, it's all water under the bridge. And I'll believe in (and enjoy) a new Suns era.

Literally no one who was around then in the Suns organization is still around making decisions. It's an entirely different team, and league for that matter. We have a new coach, a different GM, a different owner, everything has changed. Holding reservations about the future because of something 30-40 years ago is ridiculous, especially since there has been a franchise wide turnover. If Sarver has shown one thing in his time as owner it's that he's not Colangelo. The Suns have employed a real Center almost the entire time he's owned the team, barring 1 year with Amare playing there. Since then we've had KT, Shaq, Robin Lopez, Marcin Gortat, Miles Plumlee, Alex Len, and Tyson Chandler. Chandler is at the end of his career and Ayton is the consensus #1 pick. It makes the most sense to draft him.

I know some of those names don't stand out but in that year Plumlee manned the middle he played quite well and when we had both Lopez and Gortat we had 48 solid minutes of real Center play on the Suns for perhaps the first time in franchise history. Since then they've maintained the sort of status quo of keeping big men on the roster. You can't compare the decade and a half that Sarver has owned and managed things to the 3 1/2 that Colangelo did without seeing Sarver has employed probably twice the amount of Centers that JC did.

 

[elindholm]

Literally no one who was around then in the Suns organization is still around making decisions. It's an entirely different team, and league for that matter. We have a new coach, a different GM, a different owner, everything has changed. Holding reservations about the future because of something 30-40 years ago is ridiculous, especially since there has been a franchise wide turnover. If Sarver has shown one thing in his time as owner it's that he's not Colangelo. The Suns have employed a real Center almost the entire time he's owned the team, barring 1 year with Amare playing there. Since then we've had KT, Shaq, Robin Lopez, Marcin Gortat, Miles Plumlee, Alex Len, and Tyson Chandler. Chandler is at the end of his career and Ayton is the consensus #1 pick. It makes the most sense to draft him.

I know some of those names don't stand out but in that year Plumlee manned the middle he played quite well and when we had both Lopez and Gortat we had 48 solid minutes of real Center play on the Suns for perhaps the first time in franchise history. Since then they've maintained the sort of status quo of keeping big men on the roster. You can't compare the decade and a half that Sarver has owned and managed things to the 3 1/2 that Colangelo did without seeing Sarver has employed probably twice the amount of Centers that JC did.

As soon as I read this post, I knew you were arguing with BC again. Let it go.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I lived the days when Suns coach John MacLeod drafted the guy he coached at Oklahoma University as a 212 lb. Center ... and kept him at that position for a decade. That is history! Alvan Adams' best year statistically was his rookie year. He was a novelty. He declined from there. Because, by the second year, the rest of the NBA stopped sending their Centers 18 feet out to guard the guy with the skinniest arms on the court.

Which defined the Suns for a half century as primarily a small ball team. With very few exceptions, our best players every year have been Wings and Guards. Right now the only exception I can think of was the Chuckster.

That, Ouchie, is why I don't want to see our new Coach draft the player he coached (a Wing) #1 instead of the big man of the decade and set the tone for another fifty years of futility.

That is why, until 4:00 tomorrow, I am wary. When we choose Ayton, it's all water under the bridge. And I'll believe in (and enjoy) a new Suns era.

I understand your being shell shocked.

 

[Hoop Head]

FiveThirtyEight released their CARMELO rankings for players from this draft class. It's a pretty detailed computer analyses of the players, using their NCAA stats and adjusting them for strength of schedule and pace and then comparing them to other NBA players to sort of project what sort of players they'll be. Normally they release them after the draft but they put them out early this year. Here is their opening paragraph explaining things...

Our methodology for CARMELO is pretty much the same as last year, with only minor tweaks. It works by identifying statistically comparable players — for instance, John Wall is currently similar to Detroit Pistons Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas and to Deron Williams. For NBA veterans, we use a database of player statistics since the ABA-NBA merger in 1976, and for rookies, we use a database of NCAA statistics since 2002, adjusted for pace and opponent strength, as provided to us by ESPN Stats & Information Group. The rookie projections also account for — indeed, heavily emphasize — where in the draft each player was selected. Because the 2018 draft hasn’t taken place yet, we can’t use that variable to evaluate this year’s prospects, so for now I’ve used scouting rankings for both current and historical players.We’ll switch back to draft position once we publish the full set of CARMELOs.

Here is a link to their scout rankings, it's from ESPN Insider.

And here is info on their CARMELO data from last year.

FYI, CARMELO stands for "Career-Arc Regression Model Estimator with Local Optimization"

Ayton came in first of all prospects in the rankings, comparing his impact to Anthony Davis, Jahlil Okafor, and Greg Oden. I know 2 of those names may raise concern but if you read the article on look into their rankings and projections it makes more sense. It's definitely worth reading, their projections are quite advanced but it's tough to see how accurate they are. They didn't include rankings for Doncic or Michael Porter Jr because they use NCAA stats to figure things and MPJ only played a few minutes and Doncic is European.

Here is the link to their 2018 draft and prospect rankings and breakdown...

The article contains links to sort of see how their CARMELO rankings work and view them for other NBA players to sort of compare things and get a better grasp on things.

 

[Western Font]

Yep.

They're going to take whoever Vivek wants and, when it comes to basketball, Vivek is an imbecile. They could take Porter... Bagley... they could trade it for some random play Vivek has a crush on. There is no telling what that bonehead will do.

Scenario: Vivek will make them take Doncic, who will be good and a fan favourite. Which will embolden Vivek to keep making he picks, and Doncic will be exciting but play for a losing team.

 

[BC867]

Literally no one who was around then in the Suns organization is still around making decisions. It's an entirely different team, and league for that matter. We have a new coach, a different GM, a different owner, everything has changed. Holding reservations about the future because of something 30-40 years ago is ridiculous, especially since there has been a franchise wide turnover. If Sarver has shown one thing in his time as owner it's that he's not Colangelo. The Suns have employed a real Center almost the entire time he's owned the team, barring 1 year with Amare playing there. Since then we've had KT, Shaq, Robin Lopez, Marcin Gortat, Miles Plumlee, Alex Len, and Tyson Chandler. Chandler is at the end of his career and Ayton is the consensus #1 pick. It makes the most sense to draft him.

I know some of those names don't stand out but in that year Plumlee manned the middle he played quite well and when we had both Lopez and Gortat we had 48 solid minutes of real Center play on the Suns for perhaps the first time in franchise history. Since then they've maintained the sort of status quo of keeping big men on the roster. You can't compare the decade and a half that Sarver has owned and managed things to the 3 1/2 that Colangelo did without seeing Sarver has employed probably twice the amount of Centers that JC did.

There is a big difference between a "real" Center with our best players having been Wings and Guards for most of our history ... and our best players including a Center, especially one who fits today's mold of a Center.

As Ayton said, he sees himself and Book potentially as "Shaq & Cobe 2.0".

That is a great goal! It breaks the Suns mold. And I am thrilled!

I know Eric doesn't read my posts, but I challenge him to disagree with that! With more than just a snotty comment.

 

[SirStefan32]

Being 7 feet tall and weighting 260lb does not make one "Shaq", BC.

 

[Ronin]

“Kobe”

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Being 7 feet tall and weighting 260lb does not make one "Shaq", BC.

Those were Ayton's words, not BC's.

Ayton is kind of tough to come up with comparisons. Robinson was about 30 lbs lighter and a better mover and Shaq was a similar athlete, but about 30 lbs heavier out of college. Ayton is kind of in a category of his own from a physical standpoint.