Things-----they are a changin'-----

Jasper

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I agree this team is more enjoyable to watch and is more complete.
Compared to 09, CP might not be KW, but I feel our entire WR set, RBs and OL is better.
I even think our CBs are better. Safeties and LBs slightly weaker.

However we are a much improved team compared to last season. Whiz was just stubborn while Graves was passive which both lead to terrible personnel evaluations and contracts.

Last season the team just gave up.
 

speedy

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Seriously?

Whisenhunt's team in 2009 looked far superior to any Cards team before or since. We thumped the Jets and Vikings (both made the playoffs) on national TV, a feat not close to being rivaled by any other Cardinals team. Not to mention the playoff win over Green Bay, and then getting cheap-shotted into oblivion by the Saints..

We didnt play the Jets in 2009; when we played them the year before, they annihilated us... Complete- passing, running, special teams, defense etc. We couldn't (or didn't) run the ball well those 2 years... And the Saints killed us. Take all the cheap shots away and we lost that game by 5 miles.
 

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You must disagree...about what? All I said about this team
Is that the offense is light years better then it was last year and the jury is out on the D.

The part about them looking exactly like last years team. Ya, I disagree with you about that.
 

Cheesebeef

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The part about them looking exactly like last years team. Ya, I disagree with you about that.

dude...read my post again...it was specifically talking about INDY looking exactly like the same team.

again, I specifcally said in my post regarding OUR team that the offense is lightyears better then it was last year and the jury is out on the defense.
 

Shane

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Hope you are right bro.

But I've read things like this for 25 years in Arizona, but the light at the end of the tunnel was a train 22 out of 25 times.

If you can dance around with red and white poms-poms in your living room chanting "BA - SK!" over a 1-1 regular season record... hey, more power to you. I actually wish I could. I don't think that makes you a better fan than anyone else though. Certainly not to the point you can think of anyone as "lame" for being a die hard for this team. It is not our fault the data is overwhelming that the Cardinals don't win and go to the playoffs very often. Data is what it is.

Yep! Not to mention how did anyone bitch about this front office, this coaching staff and this team for the hast two years?? :doi:

Last I checked none of the three are even close to the same that was here 2 years ago.
 
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Catfish

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really? prior to this week, you know...week 2...they looked like the EXACT same team as last year, playing a very close game and Luck pulling it out in the end. this week looked like the same exact thing, except Luck couldn't pull out a game-winning drive.

looking at Indy who's 1-1 and saying it's because Pagano's there and not BA is kinda silly at this point.

that being said, I like what Arians has done with this offense. they're light-years better then what we saw at the end of last season. the jury's out on the Defense.

Really? Because since Pagano took over for BA, he is 3 and 4 in regular season games. BA is 1-1 here, and he was, very successful with the same players Pagano had and still has in Indy. I mean successful like a .750 win percentage there. Pagano on the other hand is barely .430 last year and this year with the Colts. Now that is not so kinda silly after all is it?

You can call the jury out on the defense if you want, but you look kind of silly doing that because while they rank 28th in defending the pass, they seldom let the offense score on them because they are good in the RED ZONE. So far as the run defense, they have only improved from 21st last year to 3rd in the league this year. But then if you acknowledge all that, then you kinda don't have a leg to stand on do you?
 

ajcardfan

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We didnt play the Jets in 2009; when we played them the year before, they annihilated us... Complete- passing, running, special teams, defense etc. We couldn't (or didn't) run the ball well those 2 years... And the Saints killed us. Take all the cheap shots away and we lost that game by 5 miles.

Doh! I meant the Giants!!! I'm a dufus!!
 

Cheesebeef

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Really? Because since Pagano took over for BA, he is 3 and 4 in regular season games. BA is 1-1 here, and he was, very successful with the same players Pagano had and still has in Indy. I mean successful like a .750 win percentage there. Pagano on the other hand is barely .430 last year and this year with the Colts. Now that is not so kinda silly after all is it?

to me it is. Basing anything off 7 games is silly, especially when you take into consideration that Pagano coached a team full of inexperienced players when they were literally the most inexperienced they'd ever be at the beginning of their season, namely Andrew Luck facing NFL defenses for the first time.

if Pagano and his team sucks by the end of the year, I think you'd have a point, but saying it's obvious the team is much worse off at 1-1, while playing the exact same brand of football this year as they did last year is silly to me.

You can call the jury out on the defense if you want, but you look kind of silly doing that because while they rank 28th in defending the pass,

I really don't think it's possible to look silly saying the jury's out after two weeks of football in pretty much ANY area simply because the sample size is too small. the fact that we have the 4th worst pass defense in the league, after facing two QBs who have been supbar for the majority of their careers I think only bolsters that opinion.

they seldom let the offense score on them because they are good in the RED ZONE.

two weeks ago, they let the Rams score 27 points. that's not good. This week they were much better. thus, the jury is out. I don't see how anyone can really argue this after two games which showed very different things as far as scoring.

So far as the run defense, they have only improved from 21st last year to 3rd in the league this year. But then if you acknowledge all that, then you kinda don't have a leg to stand on do you?

uh, actually, I can acknowledge that AND have a leg to stand on. The run D has been much better then last year, but the pass D has been much worse. thus, the jury is out on how good they'll be. I mean...if you can use stats to show how much the run has improved, ignoring stats that shows how bad the pass just doesn't make sense to me.
 

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Here's what I don't understand about you're POV in this thread Cat. You've said things are a changin'...but even when someone agrees that there is change (as I and many other have about the fact that it looks like we have a legit offense), you still go off on people for still waiting to see if EVERYTHING'S changed for the better. I mean...it's like you think "the jury's out" is some kind of insult, when all that phrase means is people are still waiting to see more, good or bad, before they make their opinion. do we all have to believe and agree with EVERYTHING you've said in order not to be lame?
 
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Hope you are right bro.

But I've read things like this for 25 years in Arizona, but the light at the end of the tunnel was a train 22 out of 25 times.

If you can dance around with red and white poms-poms in your living room chanting "BA - SK!" over a 1-1 regular season record... hey, more power to you. I actually wish I could. I don't think that makes you a better fan than anyone else though. Certainly not to the point you can think of anyone as "lame" for being a die hard for this team. It is not our fault the data is overwhelming that the Cardinals don't win and go to the playoffs very often. Data is what it is.

I hear you too AJ-----But if you are going to buy into all the 22 times in 25 years stuff without really considering the facts, and buying into what the P&M'rs are selling then you will be cheating yourself.

Consider that the Cards have been in the valley for 25 years. In that time, I believe they have changed coaches 6-7 times. So there are really only 6-7 times that this change for the better has occurred. It actually happened twice-----Once with Joe Bugel, and once with Whiz. Bugel built the best run offense we have seen here in the desert, and had a great O'line. The defense was getting better each year, but Mr. B fired him, despite that he won 5 of his last 8 games here in order to hire Buddy Ryan. Ryan immediately set about destroying the O'line, and caused a total rebuild to become necessary in his very short tenure. It took Mr. Biege, Mack, and Denny three tenures to put it back to where Bugel left it. Then came Whiz, and rode KW to a SB appearance, and then an additional NFCW title before he pretty much screwed the pooch. So really there were only about 5 times when real change came, not 22. See how easy it is to get caught up in this stuff, good or bad.

The change occurring now is unprecedented here in the desert. Everyone complained that SK delivered a bunch of short term garbage to BA. Not the case it seems, because these guys were all leaders. That they did not break the bank is a plus. They work their butts off, and they help those around them learn.

Then everyone complained that SK could not handle a draft, (because he was part of the problem). Not so. He proved to be very adept at maneuvering in the draft and even created extra picks from nothing. He had a sensational draft.

Then they all wanted to complain that we should have brought Norv Turner in to coach the offense, and keep our defensive co-ordinator. Well, how is that working out in Cleveland? After all, they were a better team than we were last year, and what have those two done for them.

Meanwhile, the roster players here have bought into what BA is selling much quicker that they bought into what Ray Horton sold last year, and this roster is looking much better and deeper than before. We are better at CB, QB, RB, WR, OL, DL, and ILB than last year, and MUCH deeper. Remember Massie and Potter were both starters on the OL last year. Now they are depth. We are still 5 deep at corner, and 5 deep at RB. Each WR that has been kept on this roster has contributed. None have failed or let us down. We have added depth to the DL and are good at ILB, with the opportunity to get much better there when D-Wash comes back. Remember too, that both Cooper and Swope could possibly come back next year, although Swope is likely to a much lesser degree than Cooper to do so. WE lost two veteran safeties, but Rashad Johnson and Yeremiah Bell are being pushed by Tryan Mathieu and Tony Jefferson, both rookies. Meanwhile Wilson was on the bubble at NE, and Kerry Rhodes is not even in the league. So it would appear that we got better everywhere but at OLB, and that can be argued some, because we brought in John Abraham as a situational pass rusher during camp.

So, my thought is, if you want to only listen to the P&M'rs, your year could be long and wanting. But if you want to have some fun, really look at what is happening here, and join in. This team plays competitive football, and they strive to learn during each practice. They all appreciate what is happening here, and want to contribute to it. That is the real change that has happened here, and it only looks to get better with time.
 

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I agree Catfish. Like WR Kerry Taylor said---"we've got something special going on here."

I hate to hear that. Every time I hear some Cardinal player say that they lose 10 games in a row. :p
 

Duckjake

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Doh! I meant the Giants!!! I'm a dufus!!

But you are right. That 2009 team was special. I can't remember a good Cardinal team, well of course there haven't been many, dismantling a top NFL team like the Cards did with Farve and the 10-1 Vikings. Plus beating NY in NY and crushing Seattle in Seattle and whipping the Bears in Chicago. I know those weren't the best Giants or Bears teams but when did our boys just dismantle teams like that on the road? 6-2 on the road! It usually took the Cards 6 years to win that many road games.
 
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Catfish

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Here's what I don't understand about you're POV in this thread Cat. You've said things are a changin'...but even when someone agrees that there is change (as I and many other have about the fact that it looks like we have a legit offense), you still go off on people for still waiting to see if EVERYTHING'S changed for the better. I mean...it's like you think "the jury's out" is some kind of insult, when all that phrase means is people are still waiting to see more, good or bad, before they make their opinion. do we all have to believe and agree with EVERYTHING you've said in order not to be lame?

You don't have to agree with one damned thing I've said. That doesn't make you lame. What makes you lame is that the whole lot of the P&M'rs have been complaining about the same thing for the past three years, and now it's changed, but none of you will acknowledge that. You all seem to need more time, more stats, more wins etc.

This team is playing competitive football, and it is entertaining and fun to watch. It is also improving week to week, and that makes me very happy indeed. Just sayin', P&M'rs gotta P&M-----that apparently makes them happy. I'm just not the kind of guy who needs to have the 2014 models come out before I can decide whether or not the 2013's are any good or not. I can compare what's happening right now, and see that it's better than last year's model.
 

cardpa

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I agree with Catfish, there is something different about this team. Even in the SB year people questioned the ability of the team because in that year and the year after those teams got decimated in games during the season. They were not a dominant team in either year and the SB run was because they got hot and the defense played very well up to the SB.

This team has a different vibe and feel to it. Overall it appears to be a deeper team with a total buy in by the players into what the HC is preaching. Not sure Whiz ever had that. I have been a fan of this team since 1967 and this is the first time since the Coryell days that I find watching them just a whole bunch of fun. I truly believe they can win each and every week. The reality is they won't however that ability to win is possible every week. That is the difference with this team. You could not say that about any other team since the Coryell days.

That is it in a nutshell I believe this team can win each and every time it steps onto the field. Even in 2008 and 2009 you knew there were some games the team just wasn't going to win.
 

Totally_Red

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This is most definitely a team on the upswing IMO. The obvious caveat is that the Cardinals play in the best NFL division from top-to-bottom. If 'we' would have beaten the Rams in week one, the vibe would be a whole lot stronger. That Rams team is good even though they got off to a rough start in Atlanta last week.

This two-game road trip is going to be a strong tell IMO. We'll get a good indication of what these Cardinals and their coaches are made of, after two tough road games.
 
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Catfish

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Welcome aboard Red and CardPa-----this is going to be fun. Win or lose, this team is worth following, and worth being loyal to. These players, coaches, Front Office personnel, and ownership have earned that during these past 6 months. They have all done their very best to give us the best product they can put together. They will continue to do that. That is what is so lame about the P&M'rs-----they want to hold out in giving their loyalty to their own team. These are like the same guys that used to sit in front of me at SDS, proudly wearing their lone star and their blue. Unmercifully ragging on us 31 thousand hard core Card's fans after they beat us. Until finally one day, we won, and what happened, half of them whipped off their blue to expose the Cards Red underneath, so that they wouldn't have to endure the Crap from the Cards fans. I've been thinking that some of these P&M'rs on this board were probably among that group.

Hell-----I am a Cards fan-----always will be-----I don't need to wait and see if they deserve my loyalty. It is one thing to get on your team when they stink things up. It is a completely different thing to hold out on your loyalty when your team has done not one damned thing to indicate that they are doing anything less than the maximum they can to get better for us. Withholding loyalty in that instance is very lame indeed, at least in my opinion.
 

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Since when is questioning moves or pointing out weaknesses being disloyal.

LOL A Cardinal fan on ASFN who isn't loyal. That's rich.

So far this year's team is exactly what I expected. Better offense because of a far better QB and weaker defense because of issues with the pass defense.

This time last year the Cards had just beaten New England in Foxboro! You can't tell me that wasn't special.
 
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Catfish

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Since when is questioning moves or pointing out weaknesses being disloyal.

LOL A Cardinal fan on ASFN who isn't loyal. That's rich.

So far this year's team is exactly what I expected. Better offense because of a far better QB and weaker defense because of issues with the pass defense.

This time last year the Cards had just beaten New England in Foxboro! You can't tell me that wasn't special.

So you're saying that it takes a win like the one in Foxboro in order for you to be able to convey loyalty or confidence or trust that the franchise is trying to get better. Lame
 

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:soapbox:


15 yd penalty for Premature Celebration.


I'm very encouraged on several fronts.

Glad Keim was given total control and at this very EARLY point it looks like the right choice.

I truly like BA's attitude and approach. There were and are many players and NFL people who have said wonderful things about him. So my question is why did it take so long for him to be given a HC gig?

I've been about the Mikey B wagon for 5 years now. First reason was anyone other than Bill Sr had to be an upgrade. Two, three years ago is when I believed he will do whatever it takes to win.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic that BASK will continue to improve the team and we will have a true winning culture established in Az.

I will also listen to the "P&Mers" because they have been right far more often than wrong. Of course that's easy when you consider the Cards history. Thing is that no NFL org. is perfect and we have some very smart posters who will identify some potential mistakes BASK may be making.
 

Duckjake

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So you're saying that it takes a win like the one in Foxboro in order for you to be able to convey loyalty or confidence or trust that the franchise is trying to get better. Lame

That is about as lame a response as I ever seen. Trying to get better? Heck they do that every year. Are you saying Michael Bidwill and CKW weren't trying to get better?

This year's team is no more special than last year's was at this time. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the win over New England last year.

But if it makes you feel better I'll use the Eagles game or the Seattle game or the Dolphins game or the games from 2011 where we finished 7-2 instead of the Patriots game.

And yes it will take more than a win over the Lions who we beat every year no matter how bad we are to get me to believe this team is better.
 

Cheesebeef

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Welcome aboard Red and CardPa-----this is going to be fun. Win or lose, this team is worth following, and worth being loyal to. These players, coaches, Front Office personnel, and ownership have earned that during these past 6 months. They have all done their very best to give us the best product they can put together. They will continue to do that. That is what is so lame about the P&M'rs-----they want to hold out in giving their loyalty to their own team. These are like the same guys that used to sit in front of me at SDS, proudly wearing their lone star and their blue. Unmercifully ragging on us 31 thousand hard core Card's fans after they beat us. Until finally one day, we won, and what happened, half of them whipped off their blue to expose the Cards Red underneath, so that they wouldn't have to endure the Crap from the Cards fans. I've been thinking that some of these P&M'rs on this board were probably among that group.

Hell-----I am a Cards fan-----always will be-----I don't need to wait and see if they deserve my loyalty. It is one thing to get on your team when they stink things up. It is a completely different thing to hold out on your loyalty when your team has done not one damned thing to indicate that they are doing anything less than the maximum they can to get better for us. Withholding loyalty in that instance is very lame indeed, at least in my opinion.

man...just read this again...are you really accusing some of us of being Cowboy fans who just jumped on the Cardinals bandwagon? wow. I just don't even know what to say here.

okay...it's apparent you're really just trying to start fights here. you're not going to get one from me. I love this team. maybe a different way then you do, but that doesn't mean I deserve to have my fandom called into question.
 
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:soapbox:


15 yd penalty for Premature Celebration.


I'm very encouraged on several fronts.

Glad Keim was given total control and at this very EARLY point it looks like the right choice.

I truly like BA's attitude and approach. There were and are many players and NFL people who have said wonderful things about him. So my question is why did it take so long for him to be given a HC gig?

I've been about the Mikey B wagon for 5 years now. First reason was anyone other than Bill Sr had to be an upgrade. Two, three years ago is when I believed he will do whatever it takes to win.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic that BASK will continue to improve the team and we will have a true winning culture established in Az.

I will also listen to the "P&Mers" because they have been right far more often than wrong. Of course that's easy when you consider the Cards history. Thing is that no NFL org. is perfect and we have some very smart posters who will identify some potential mistakes BASK may be making.

Things have been changing for the last 10 years. That is when the stadium broke ground and Mike started the slow process of taking over. The problem has been, IMO, that the team was so backwards in how it ran things that it has taken this long to complete the transition. (as I see it firing Graves was the completion of the regime change)
For the first time since Bob Ferguson we have a "real GM" and Keim has been given the resources to do the job well. And I have had no complaints on the last 3 coaches hired (only vikings fans laughed when we hired Green) and Whiz DID coach us to the Super Bowl. This team just doesn't operate the way it used to 10 years ago.

I don't know what the future holds for us. Arians could fall on his face and be run out of town in 3 years...or he could replace Whiz as the winningest Cards coach. I personally think at the end of the season we will be what we currently are. A .500 team....but it will be a fun ride. Kind of like the 98 season. We weren't a great team but were good enough to find ways to win a lot of games. Such a fun season...but I digress.

To me the future looks bright but I can't/won't get down on those that are going to wait a few more games. 2 games isn't really much to go on and our past almost demands skepticism. So go on and be skeptical...we will save a seat for you on the bandwagon and you can pick us up if the wheels come off it.


BTW Catfish, all this 'they are a team with one goal' talk just makes me think of Coach Mac and his "One Heartbeat" garbage.
 

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That is what is so lame about the P&M'rs-----they want to hold out in giving their loyalty to their own team. These are like the same guys that used to sit in front of me at SDS, proudly wearing their lone star and their blue. Unmercifully ragging on us 31 thousand hard core Card's fans after they beat us. Until finally one day, we won, and what happened, half of them whipped off their blue to expose the Cards Red underneath, so that they wouldn't have to endure the Crap from the Cards fans. I've been thinking that some of these P&M'rs on this board were probably among that group.

You are banned for two days. I should be A LOT longer but you get the in season Cardinal fan break.

Edit: Scratch that, we will put this to mod discussion. It is currently two days but you can potentially expect longer. Next time I suggest you stop the "Piss and Moan" labeling, the closet Cowboy fan insinuations, and the other flame baiting you tossed in this thread.
 
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