Thoughts on Boldin and Trade Scenarios

[RugbyMuffin]

The team was in this predicament way before the Fitz deal and the timeline proves that.

Then deal with the predicament.

I cannot be convinced that a GM of football operations can only do one task at a time.

Sorry this is ridiculous. Having this many upset players at once is telling me that there are more problems than just money with the Cardinals right now.

Whether you think Graves is doing a good job or a bad job is irregardless of the fact the Cardinals are in a bad situation.

 

[Mitch]

What is pathetic is that we have a line of unhappy core players standing in front of Rod Graves' desk.

Dansby, Boldin, Wilson, Dockett, and I am sure there is more to come. Add Green and A.Smith to the list and you are really looking at the entire team.

Unfortunately, being a engineer with a yacht company I have no answers on how to handle the situation. But I do expect our GM of football operations to have answers. Furthermore, I am in complete shock that Boldin, who is the face of this franchise, who is the captain of the team is upset enough to want out of AZ.

I agree, that Graves did what he could with Fitzgerald, but there is no denying the fact it was embarrassing to see it take so long.

Now you have core players putting it out in the press that they are not happy.

Graves and his turtle like approach to dealing with these players has gotten old.

The captain and a good number of your core players are unhappy with the team. Don't be telling me that the Cardinals are doing a good job when it is apparent your core players are unhappy with the direction the organization is going in.

I am not saying the players are not being ridiculous with their contract situation, but the situation is what it is. And what it is, is a bad situation.

I'd agree with you, Rugby, if Graves hadn't (a) re-signed Q to his current deal, which was an excellent move at the time; (b) if he hadn't made some kind of an effort to extend his current deal, in recognition of Q's value as one of the core players on the team.

Players complaining about contract is the norm these days. Look at the Steelers and Alan Faneca, a prenennial pro bowler who was not getting anywhere with them on an extension. The Patriots and WR Deion Branch...the list goes on and on. Faneca honored his deal, while Branch held out. Both players have the money they want and are now with different teams via free agency and a trade.

If Rod Graves deserves scrutiny, it's for even considering a contract extension for a player with three years left on his contract. It depends how you look at it. I think this was wise of Graves to do because of Q's importance to the team...but it may have created a monster for Graves if and when every other disgruntled player shows up at his door. And what happends when other players don't even get a slight consideration? They will wonder why Q did and why they didn't.

Teams like the Patriots and Steelers have a strict policy: they expect players to honor their current contracts and will only negotiate a new one during or after the final year of the contract.

 

[AsUdUdE]

I don't think we SHOULD trade Q... HOWEVER, I've said it before, and I will say it again...

If I had a choice between Q and Fitz its not even close its Q.. but since we extended Fitz, a non-biased point of View would probably look at Q as expenable for the cards...

I only say that in the sense that if we are running 60-40, and are interested in drafting a high-grade RB (ala Jonathon Stewart, Rashard MEnenhall)... we will be focusing on grinding it out... and we can't do that if our two highest paid players are WR....

This is the problem... a difference in ideology and personelle.....

IF Washington were to offer Randle El, a First this year and a third... I would think that deal would work well for the Cardinals as an organization.... If we were to draft Stewart and Rodger-Comartie, add a pass-rushing OLB ala Quinton Groves (trade 2nd and 3rd picks to move up to 34).. then as a team I believe the Cards are in a better situation than they are with an unhappy boldin...

Just my opinion....

 

[Russ Smith]

What is pathetic is that we have a line of unhappy core players standing in front of Rod Graves' desk.

Dansby, Boldin, Wilson, Dockett, and I am sure there is more to come. Add Green and A.Smith to the list and you are really looking at the entire team.

Unfortunately, being a engineer with a yacht company I have no answers on how to handle the situation. But I do expect our GM of football operations to have answers. Furthermore, I am in complete shock that Boldin, who is the face of this franchise, who is the captain of the team is upset enough to want out of AZ.

I agree, that Graves did what he could with Fitzgerald, but there is no denying the fact it was embarrassing to see it take so long.

Now you have core players putting it out in the press that they are not happy.

Graves and his turtle like approach to dealing with these players has gotten old.

The captain and a good number of your core players are unhappy with the team. Don't be telling me that the Cardinals are doing a good job when it is apparent your core players are unhappy with the direction the organization is going in.

I am not saying the players are not being ridiculous with their contract situation, but the situation is what it is. And what it is, is a bad situation.

What is disappointing to me is the timing. I can understand guys who star on a perennial loser wanting to be paid. Eventually you decide if we don't win it hurts my chances at endorsements, I play my butt off I deserve to be compensated it's not my fault we don't win I'm one of the good players.

But we are coming off the best year in awhile, with a chance to turn the corner and win this year. So you'd hope that the star players would see that and want to be a part of it and want to help the team get there. and by all lining up to demand new contracts they're not doing that IMHO?

 

[Mitch]

What is disappointing to me is the timing. I can understand guys who star on a perennial loser wanting to be paid. Eventually you decide if we don't win it hurts my chances at endorsements, I play my butt off I deserve to be compensated it's not my fault we don't win I'm one of the good players.

But we are coming off the best year in awhile, with a chance to turn the corner and win this year. So you'd hope that the star players would see that and want to be a part of it and want to help the team get there. and by all lining up to demand new contracts they're not doing that IMHO?

Great point, Russ. First the Fitz debacle spoils the start of free agency and now the Q-Rips are potentially spoiling the euphoria of the upcoming draft.

The players sya they care about their teams and care about winning...but, the bottom line is they care most about the money.

I gotta give Duane Starks some credit...when he signed with the Cards as a free agent, he didn't waste any time bs-ing anyone. He said he came to Arizona because the money was plentiful and green...perhaps he didn't say it that poetically, but he called it for what it was...and then he found every possible way to stay off the field (that's another story in itself).

 

[football karma]

I dont feel like digging through the archives, but Fitz ended up with practically the same contract that he was originally reported requesting. The Cards came over about 80% whereas he may have given 20% to make the compromise IIRC.

.

which shouldnt surprise anybody. 80% of the leverage was on Fitz's side. The one thing the Cards did get was that the 4th year was a "real" one -- whereas I beleive Parker originally wanted the 4th year to be a silly number like $20 mm.

 

[cardsfanmd]

which shouldnt surprise anybody. 80% of the leverage was on Fitz's side. The one thing the Cards did get was that the 4th year was a "real" one -- whereas I beleive Parker originally wanted the 4th year to be a silly number like $20 mm.

Which is all fine, but my question is : If we were gonna give him pretty much exactly what he wanted (which he did have the leverage to assure) why did the process have to take such a costly amount of time. Whether some what to admit it or not, we did miss out on the chance to get Faneca and resign Pace.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Which is all fine, but my question is : If we were gonna give him pretty much exactly what he wanted (which he did have the leverage to assure) why did the process have to take such a costly amount of time. Whether some what to admit it or not, we did miss out on the chance to get Faneca and resign Pace.

Neither one of them were in the "Cards." You could argue Faneca, but no way in hell were we going to pay that kind of money to Pace. Hell, at the moment we won't pay that to Dansby.

 

[jefftheshark]

Which is all fine, but my question is : If we were gonna give him pretty much exactly what he wanted (which he did have the leverage to assure) why did the process have to take such a costly amount of time. Whether some what to admit it or not, we did miss out on the chance to get Faneca and resign Pace.

If you assume that the FO wanted to do either of those things, which is a big question mark, at least IMO.

JTS

 

[bg7brd]

Graves probaly wants to see what happens in the draft before moving forward with Boldins contract. If we draft Mendenhall or Stewart we just might cut Edge for cap space.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Which is all fine, but my question is : If we were gonna give him pretty much exactly what he wanted (which he did have the leverage to assure) why did the process have to take such a costly amount of time. Whether some what to admit it or not, we did miss out on the chance to get Faneca and resign Pace.

Neither one of them were in the "Cards." You could argue Faneca, but no way in hell were we going to pay that kind of money to Pace. Hell, at the moment we won't pay that to Dansby.

If you assume that the FO wanted to do either of those things, which is a big question mark, at least IMO.

JTS

I didn't say that we would have given either of them what they go from their new respective teams, but it is always better to have the option.

None of us know what would have happened, so there is no real point in speculating on it, the bottom line is that both players, either through their own words or through their agents both said they would have liked to be here, but ARIZONA WAS NOT AN OPTION DUE TO THE EVERLASTING FITZ CONTRACT ORDEAL.

 

[ajcardfan]

I didn't say that we would have given either of them what they go from their new respective teams, but it is always better to have the option.

None of us know what would have happened, so there is no real point in speculating on it, the bottom line is that both players, either through their own words or through their agents both said they would have liked to be here, but ARIZONA WAS NOT AN OPTION DUE TO THE EVERLASTING FITZ CONTRACT ORDEAL.

I think Arizona was never an option for Faneca because the Cards said weeks in advance they wouldn't make a move at the top end of free agency. I also think Pace was not an option either at the contract he got. Fitz could've been done in October and the Cards wouldn't have given him near that much money. IMO.

 

[football karma]

Which is all fine, but my question is : If we were gonna give him pretty much exactly what he wanted (which he did have the leverage to assure) why did the process have to take such a costly amount of time. Whether some what to admit it or not, we did miss out on the chance to get Faneca and resign Pace.

my one (one of?) beef with the FO is that it seems like they take twice as long to get somewhere as other FOs

now -- if the two week or so delay was the turning point in getting Parker to turn the fourth year into a "real" year, then I suppose it was worth it.

Given the money both Faneca and PAce got -- the Cards werent realistic players for those guys regardless of Fitz's contract.

 

[40yearfan]

What is pathetic is that we have a line of unhappy core players standing in front of Rod Graves' desk.

Dansby, Boldin, Wilson, Dockett, and I am sure there is more to come. Add Green and A.Smith to the list and you are really looking at the entire team.

Unfortunately, being a engineer with a yacht company I have no answers on how to handle the situation. But I do expect our GM of football operations to have answers. Furthermore, I am in complete shock that Boldin, who is the face of this franchise, who is the captain of the team is upset enough to want out of AZ.

I agree, that Graves did what he could with Fitzgerald, but there is no denying the fact it was embarrassing to see it take so long.

Now you have core players putting it out in the press that they are not happy.

Graves and his turtle like approach to dealing with these players has gotten old.

The captain and a good number of your core players are unhappy with the team. Don't be telling me that the Cardinals are doing a good job when it is apparent your core players are unhappy with the direction the organization is going in.

I am not saying the players are not being ridiculous with their contract situation, but the situation is what it is. And what it is, is a bad situation.

Rugby, I think you are putting a lot more into this than what is really transpiring. All we have are rumors from unsubstantiated sources that this is happening. Before we get all in a huff, we need to make sure this is the actual situation. Just how unhappy are these people? It looks like everyone is working out (except for Dockett).

Let's just calm down and make sure we have a problem without manufacturing one.

 

[Sandan]

In addition, it's no secret that teams like the Cowboys, Redskins and Eagles would love to acquire Boldin...and those teams have owners who are more than willing to put up big bucks for their superstar players.

Just a thought here.. Haven't we demonstrated that as well recently ? Fitz comes to mind.

 

[Sandan]

We have a few folks patting themselves so hard on the back its surprising they don't hurt themselves.

I hear I told you so about something that in their love to be negative really hasn't happened yet. The Cards do hold all the cards and this is just the evil one being the evil one [as in DR]. Nothing whatsoever has happened yet so I'd hold off on the patting for a while. Even if they turn out to be correct in the long term, well you know what they say about a blind squirrel.

So far this is nothing but should it actually come to be something then as some have said, for the right trade heck yes I'd do it, but ti would have to to be one heck of a trade.

 

[Sandan]

Per Kent

Whisenhunt said "Anquan has not requested a trade. We are not aware of that."

 

[red desert]

Boldin's Point of View: He wants to be paid what he's worth on the market right now. While Rod Graves made Boldin an extension offer (to Graves' credit) toward the end of last season that would make him one of the top 5 highest paid WRs in three years...it's the in three years part that isn't sitting well with Boldin...and this is understandable in the sense that Boldin's physcial all-out style of play could well lead to a career threatening injury at any point. If he doesn't get paid what he's worth now, he may not be able to collect on his current value later, unless the extension comes with acceptable guaranteed money.

In addition, it's no secret that teams like the Cowboys, Redskins and Eagles would love to acquire Boldin...and those teams have owners who are more than willing to put up big bucks for their superstar players.

Thus, as long as a trade would allow Boldin to get what he wants by way of a revised contract that will pay him this year and beyond what he's worth, virtually any player would want such a trade to happen.

The Cardinals' Point of View: They extended Boldin a couple of years back, and now he's signed through 2010. They were gracious enough to offer him another extension this past November that would eventually pay him his fair market value...but their proposal wasn't even responded to by Boldin's agent, Drew Rosenhaus. Now Rosenhaus, instead of dealing in good faith with the Cardinals, is doing what he is notorious for, he's brokering leverege through trade talk and media attention.

The Cardinals also have to be careful not to break precedents here with Boldin, because if they cave in to his and Rosenhaus' demands, that will cause a floodgate, as other veterans such as Adrian Wilson and Darnell Dockett might call the Cardinals on the carpet the way Boldin is now doing. Dockett has already been clamouring for a new deal, and his case has far less merit than Boldin's.

What Should the Cardinals Do?

Here are some of the logical options:

(1) Keep the status quo and hold all players to their current contracts.

(2) Keep working with Boldin to try to negotiate an extension (which may be a totally moot point if the Cardinals cannot pay Boldin what he wants in terms of immediate money).

(3) Listen to trade offers...for example...

Scenario A: The Cowboys offer WR Patrick Crayton (50/697/13.9/7) and the #22 and #84 picks.

Scenario B: The Redskins offer Antwaan Randle El (51/728/14.4/1) and the #21 and #80 picks.

The Reality Is:

The Cardinals are holding all the cards on this one. They re-signed Boldin in good faith, and at the time Boldin was happy. Now Boldin isn't. The Cards did show some flexibility in trying to work on an extension, but they really didn't have to do that, and maybe they shouldn't have because this just shows the other players that the Cards may acquiesce to players' demands.

When Boldin's contract is up in 2010, he will be 30 heading into the next season. With the pounding he issues forth and the pounding he takes, he may not be able to play many more years beyond 2010. At his age then, he may not be able to garner a big salary, particularly if injuries take their toll and/or his production drops.

Would it really be good business on the Cardinals' part to extend Boldin?

The best solution may be to have him play under his current contract for the next two years and if he maintains his health and productivity, rip up the old contract then (with one year remaining) and sign him to a lucrative three year deal that will keep him a Cardinal for his entire career.

As for Dockett and others who are disgruntled: Take a similar route...but don't let them believe that the Cards will rip up multi-year deals and redo them.

About the trade scenarios...as much as we all love Boldin, if such trade offers were made, I agree with Slandriac, it behooves the Cardinals to listen to what teams are offering and then assess whether a deal could make the Cards even stronger.

Case in point: suppose the Cards accept the deal with the Redskins...last year Randle El proved he is capable of being a very good #2, he would be re-united with Whiz who won a Super Bowl with him...and at #21 and #80 the team is able to add LB Quentin Groves and WR Andre Caldwell...which begs the question...would adding Randle El, Groves and Caldwell at the expense of losing Boldin make the Cardinals a better team? What do you think?

Or...how about a draft that looks like this;

#16: RB Jonathan Stewart, Oregon

#21: WR DeSean Jackson, California

#50: LB Cliff Avril, Purdue

#80: CB Charles Godfrey, Iowa

#81: G/T Mike McGlynn, Pittsburgh

#116: T Anthony Collins, Kansas

#149: DE Johnny Dingle, West Virginia

#185: CB Justin Tryon, Arizona St.

#225: K Garrett Hartley, Oklahoma

I disagree with most of what you say, Mitch (damn, is that a first? )

With respect to Q's point of view, the fact is everything changed when the organization gave Fitz his new deal. Actually, when the team agreed to that ridiculous incentive/escalator clause simply requiring Fitz to play in two Pro Bowls for the increase in salary. Idiotic on management's part. No one will convince me otherwise.

Boldin has been underpaid by the Cards since day one. And never a peep out of him until now. Why? Because at 30, as Mitch suggests, it will be way too late. He absolutely has to act now. How could he not want/expect/demand to be paid as much if not a little more than Fitz?

How much for the HEART and SOUL of this team?

I say, at the very least, as much as Fitz is getting, if not more. The Cards themselves have set the bar on this one. That's exactly what I said when terms of the Fitz contract(s) was initially revealed. If I were Boldin I know I wouldn't stay quiet given. Not given what I've meant to the organization.

Dockett, Wilson, and the rest of them can wait in line. Boldin, no. He is that much more meaningful to this "team" than any of the above players. Not even close. And I would venture to guess that any one of the Cardinals would tell you exactly that. Do you really think anyone would begrudge Q getting paid what he is worth? I don't. Conversely, if I had to guess, I would say that there may very well be some resentment from some of the "tougher" players on this team for how Fitz made out. Aside from Boldin's resentment I mean. And for the organization to not have recognized the potential of this is simply ineptitude on their part.

As for the trade scenarios you point out Mitch: I don't like any of them. Not in the least. None of what you propose gives us equal value for Boldin. Am I looking at this with clouded vision? Sure. To some degree. But here's the thing: I honestly feel that Boldin is a once in a lifetime player; a Joe Montana, a Barry Sanders, a Jerry Rice, or a Jim Brown even. And you know what?

He's OUR once in a lifetime player. And this is my lifetime, baby. I refuse to let him go quietly.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I hate to sound critical, but I think you are missing something here Mitch. The team is in this predicament because they already "broke predents" by caving into Fitz's demands. That is why everyone else is wanting so much now.

I called all of this two months ago. How much longer will you guys refute my logic? Q is either gonna get a monstous contract ASAP or he is gone. Dansby is gonna wanna be the highest paid LB in the game by a decent margin or he is gone. Dockett wants a busload of cash or he is gone. If it weren't for his injury we would be hearing more from ADub now as well.

All because of the pathetic way RG went about this Fitz situation.

cardsfanmd - what did you want to see happen with Fitz??

 

[Mulli]

cardsfanmd - what did you want to see happen with Fitz??

Trade him in an effort to become the Ravens of the NFC.

 

[cardsfanmd]

We have a few folks patting themselves so hard on the back its surprising they don't hurt themselves.

I hear I told you so about something that in their love to be negative really hasn't happened yet. The Cards do hold all the cards and this is just the evil one being the evil one [as in DR]. Nothing whatsoever has happened yet so I'd hold off on the patting for a while. Even if they turn out to be correct in the long term, well you know what they say about a blind squirrel.

So far this is nothing but should it actually come to be something then as some have said, for the right trade heck yes I'd do it, but ti would have to to be one heck of a trade.

First, if you are going to badmouth me atleast have the common decency to address the post my way.

Second, why bother trying to instigate an arguement??? Isn't that the opposite of your responsibilty here???

I would love to respond to your actual post, but since you just erase all responses that dont praise your thoughts I will just save my breath.

 

[Shogun]

Dockett, Wilson, and the rest of them can wait in line. Boldin, no. He is that much more meaningful to this "team" than any of the above players. Not even close. And I would venture to guess that any one of the Cardinals would tell you exactly that. Do you really think anyone would begrudge Q getting paid what he is worth? I don't. Conversely, if I had to guess, I would say that there may very well be some resentment from some of the "tougher" players on this team for how Fitz made out. Aside from Boldin's resentment I mean. And for the organization to not have recognized the potential of this is simply ineptitude on their part.

Hooray for calling Fitz soft.

How did you come up with this one?

 

[red desert]

First, if you are going to badmouth me atleast have the common decency to address the post my way.

Second, why bother trying to instigate an arguement??? Isn't that the opposite of your responsibilty here???

I would love to respond to your actual post, but since you just erase all responses that dont praise your thoughts I will just save my breath.

I hear you on that.

 

[red desert]

We have a few folks patting themselves so hard on the back its surprising they don't hurt themselves.

And you are at the front of the line there buddy boy.

 

[Sandan]

Md there are several people on this thread going off the deep end and yes you are one of them.

At this point it is a non story and yet you act like it is proven fact including the 'I told you so' act.