Thoughts on Boldin and Trade Scenarios

[jefftheshark]

i'll never understand the undying "we will never do anything if we trade our heart and soul" devotion to Boldin. The only two years this team was even somewhat competitive for a playoff spot and actually within a game or above .500 was when he was injured (2004 and last year). That's not to say he's not a great player... just saying very few WRs are THAT important to a team's success, especially when you already have a Pro-Bowler on the other side.

I think that the concern is that if we trade him for draft picks, the FO will screw it up and we'll end up with nothing out of the deal.

I'm not so sure that this isn't a valid concern.

IMO, sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing, and by that I mean just let the situation sort itself out between the Agent and the FO and keep this purely a money issue, rather than a personality one.

JTS

 

[WildBB]

I think that the concern is that if we trade him for draft picks, the FO will screw it up and we'll end up with nothing out of the deal.

I'm not so sure that this isn't a valid concern.

IMO, sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing, and by that I mean just let the situation sort itself out between the Agent and the FO and keep this purely a money issue, rather than a personality one.

JTS

Very wise.

 

[joeshmo]

I think you offer him a nice chunk in guaranteed $ say in the 20 million range and I bet he bites. Extend his deal another 3 years or so. Thats 10 million less than Fitz got in guarantees. It also puts the end of teh contract at age 33 right about when you would expect a WR to be on the back end.

Just a clarification. Fitz did not get over 30 Mill in gaurantee's. He got a 15 Mill signing bonus paid to him this season and a 9 Mill option bonus paid to him in 2009 offseason. A total of 24 Mill in gaurantees. Also Fitz deal is actually a 5 year deal with year 5 being a player option. Remember why it took so long to actually get the league to approve the deal. It was becuase of the "if he gets franchised it will cost 23 Mill" clause they ahd an issue with. The league did not like that we were writting our own rules for the franchise tag rule so Fitz and his agent gave up that demand and instead added a 5th year player option at a cost of 5 Mill in base salary. Way, way less then the original clause for a 5th year, and they gave into our demands.

What is also good about that 5th year is that we can now spread that 15 mill signing bonus over 5 years instead of 4 years. Saving us 750K a year. It also spreads out the option bonus over a 4 year period instead of just a 3 year period. Saving us another 750K a year in years 2 thru 5. So becuase the NFLPA didnt like our contract wording we actually got Fitz and his agent to give us a better deal and we were able to add a 5th year helping us to save 750K this year, and 1.5 Mill in years 2 through 5.

2008 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.1 Mill Base Salary = 5.1 Mill Cap hit
2009 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 4.6 Mill Base Salary = 9.75 Mill Cap Hit
2010 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 6.3 Mill Base Salary = 11.55 Mill Cap Hit
2011 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 7 Mill Base Salary = 12.25 Mill Cap Hit
2012 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 5 Mill Base Salary (If Fitz picks up his option) = 10.25 Mill Cap Hit

Becuase the NFLPA steped in because of that franchise tag clasue we actually got a better deal that saves us some cap space each season.

 

[ItsInTheCards]

Just a clarification. Fitz did not get over 30 Mill in gaurantee's. He got a 15 Mill signing bonus paid to him this season and a 9 Mill option bonus paid to him in 2009 offseason. A total of 24 Mill in gaurantees. Also Fitz deal is actually a 5 year deal with year 5 being a player option. Remember why it took so long to actually get the league to approve the deal. It was becuase of the "if he gets franchised it will cost 23 Mill" clause they ahd an issue with. The league did not like that we were writting our own rules for the franchise tag rule so Fitz and his agent gave up that demand and instead added a 5th year player option at a cost of 5 Mill in base salary. Way, way less then the original clause for a 5th year, and they gave into our demands.

What is also good about that 5th year is that we can now spread that 15 mill signing bonus over 5 years instead of 4 years. Saving us 750K a year. It also spreads out the option bonus over a 4 year period instead of just a 3 year period. Saving us another 750K a year in years 2 thru 5. So becuase the NFLPA didnt like our contract wording we actually got Fitz and his agent to give us a better deal and we were able to add a 5th year helping us to save 750K this year, and 1.5 Mill in years 2 through 5.

2008 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.1 Mill Base Salary = 5.1 Mill Cap hit
2009 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 4.6 Mill Base Salary = 9.75 Mill Cap Hit
2010 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 6.3 Mill Base Salary = 11.55 Mill Cap Hit
2011 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 7 Mill Base Salary = 12.25 Mill Cap Hit
2012 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 5 Mill Base Salary (If Fitz picks up his option) = 10.25 Mill Cap Hit

Becuase the NFLPA steped in because of that franchise tag clasue we actually got a better deal that saves us some cap space each season.

I see the nflpa.org site was redone, do you know if they still have the active player search with salary data?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think that the concern is that if we trade him for draft picks, the FO will screw it up and we'll end up with nothing out of the deal.

I'm not so sure that this isn't a valid concern.

I agree that's a valid concern

 

[red desert]

I think that the concern is that if we trade him for draft picks, the FO will screw it up and we'll end up with nothing out of the deal.

I'm not so sure that this isn't a valid concern.

IMO, sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing, and by that I mean just let the situation sort itself out between the Agent and the FO and keep this purely a money issue, rather than a personality one.

JTS

Good point.

By the way, I just noticed your sig, and I have to say -- YEAH!

FLASH FLOOD DEFENSE BABY! It will happen.

 

[perivolaki]

Look around the league, guys. Whole teams of veterans like the Jets and Titans are unhappy with their contracts. All due to the recent spat of absurd FA contracts.

Rosenhaus yanked Owens out of Philly. He wants to yank Chad Johnson out of Cinci and Boldin out of Arizona. All over money. So what? That's what he does to get max money.

Either you cave, like Philly did, or you resist, like Cinci and Az seem to be doing. If the players won't honor their contracts, let them sit and not get paid.

Remember Tampa sending Johnson home? And Philly did, in essence, do that to Owens too, not having to pay him.

In the end, as long as the team gets better, that's all that matters.

None of this is new and none of it is unique to us.

Bingo we're in the big league now. We finally have players good enough that they feel they can ask for big contracts. This is just par for the course.

I know a lot of people here think this is a fairness issue and that Fitz got big money so Boldin wants his too. It aint gonna happen. Fitz held all the cards in that situation.

Maybe they shouldn't have offered those incentives in his contract but he was the second pick in the draft and he was going to ask for those kind of things and I don't remember to many people thinking it was a deal breaker when he signed it. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Boldin was a second rounder and started from a much lower base. If you take Fitz and Boldin and realize that Fitz started with a much higher base you see that he isn't ever going to get the kind of money Fitz gets if they both perform.

Fitz has huge leverage and hes used it to his advantage. Boldin is an equally good player with little or no leverage and all he has is the court of public opinion and thats what hes trying to use.

Its the same with Dockett and the rest, they don't have leverage so they are grumbling. Thats about all they can do.

The system is unfair. Guys like Pace underperform their original contracts but have a big contract year and get rich. Boldin consistently performs well, takes the advantage of the security an extension, and he finds himself suddenly under paid. It aint fair but its the breaks of the game.

 

[jefftheshark]

Good point.

By the way, I just noticed your sig, and I have to say -- YEAH!

FLASH FLOOD DEFENSE BABY! It will happen.

Check out Linderbee's sig, too. We're converting the masses, one fan at a time!

JTS

 

[red desert]

i'll never understand the undying "we will never do anything if we trade our heart and soul" devotion to Boldin.

Okay.

To me, Boldin is Terry Metcalf (my childhood Cardinal hero) or Larry Bird (my college basketball hero) or Alexis Arguello (my lifetime boxing hero). Understand that I use "hero" loosly. But in the end, isn't this board about expressing and sharing those beautiful childhood hero worship feelings that at the end of the day are really not too important?

So yeah, I absolutely feel like "we should never do anything to trade our heart and soul that is Anquan Boldin!" Damn it!

But as soon as I get off this message board I immediately realize that it really doesn't matter, does it? Well, until my 5 year old son runs up to me and asks, "who it the greatest football player for the in the world?" And of course he answers the question, "Anquan Boldin!" He then inquires, "isn't that right, papa?"

That's the place that Anquan Boldin has in my life.

Trading Anquan will signal the closing of a chapter in me and my son's life. Not a big deal really. There will be many more to come. But today, I'm going to scream and shout about the changing of the guard.

 

[red desert]

Check out Linderbee's sig, too. We're converting the masses, one fan at a time!

JTS

Freakin' awesome! I'm coming to az for the games and I'm looking you up. the suds will be flowing. Just like the ...

go ahead, finish that sentence for me.

 

[40yearfan]

Okay.

To me, Boldin is Terry Metcalf (my childhood Cardinal hero) or Larry Bird (my college basketball hero) or Alexis Arguello (my lifetime boxing hero). Understand that I use "hero" loosly. But in the end, isn't this board about expressing and sharing those beautiful childhood hero worship feelings that at the end of the day are really not too important?

So yeah, I absolutely feel like "we should never do anything to trade our heart and soul that is Anquan Boldin!" Damn it!

But as soon as I get off this message board I immediately realize that it really doesn't matter, does it? Well, until my 5 year old son runs up to me and asks, "who it the greatest football player for the in the world?" And of course he answers the question, "Anquan Boldin!" He then inquires, "isn't that right, papa?"

That's the place that Anquan Boldin has in my life.

Trading Anquan will signal the closing of a chapter in me and my son's life. Not a big deal really. There will be many more to come. But today, I'm going to scream and shout about the changing of the guard.

Great post RD. We all need heros and I couldn't think of a better role model than Anquan Boldin.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Okay.

To me, Boldin is Terry Metcalf (my childhood Cardinal hero) or Larry Bird (my college basketball hero) or Alexis Arguello (my lifetime boxing hero). Understand that I use "hero" loosly. But in the end, isn't this board about expressing and sharing those beautiful childhood hero worship feelings that at the end of the day are really not too important?

red, I'm not saying you shouldn't have that opinion or express it. Just saying that I personally don't understand it.

 

[40yearfan]

Bingo we're in the big league now. We finally have players good enough that they feel they can ask for big contracts. This is just par for the course.

I know a lot of people here think this is a fairness issue and that Fitz got big money so Boldin wants his too. It aint gonna happen. Fitz held all the cards in that situation.

Maybe they shouldn't have offered those incentives in his contract but he was the second pick in the draft and he was going to ask for those kind of things and I don't remember to many people thinking it was a deal breaker when he signed it. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Boldin was a second rounder and started from a much lower base. If you take Fitz and Boldin and realize that Fitz started with a much higher base you see that he isn't ever going to get the kind of money Fitz gets if they both perform.

Fitz has huge leverage and hes used it to his advantage. Boldin is an equally good player with little or no leverage and all he has is the court of public opinion and thats what hes trying to use.

Its the same with Dockett and the rest, they don't have leverage so they are grumbling. Thats about all they can do.

The system is unfair. Guys like Pace underperform their original contracts but have a big contract year and get rich. Boldin consistently performs well, takes the advantage of the security an extension, and he finds himself suddenly under paid. It aint fair but its the breaks of the game.

Succint, nonsensical and to the point. Best explanation I've heard to date.

 

[40yearfan]

red, I'm not saying you shouldn't have that opinion or express it. Just saying that I personally don't understand it.

You don't understand Einsteins' Theory of Relativity either, but that doesn't mean we like you any less because of it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You don't understand Einsteins' Theory of Relativity either, but that doesn't mean we like you any less because of it.

i think Skkidan still holds it against me.

 

[overseascardfan]

The only trade I would do for Boldin would be dumb for DAL to accept but DAL would have to give up both #1's and Marion Barber, but DAL won't do that and will squash anymore DAL rumors so I happily kep Boldin. NFL players have to realize that contracts are only going to go up so locking yourself up for a long period of time may get you security but your locked in to that salary that could easily turn into peanuts in comparison to everyone else's contract.

Look at Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen just got a huge deal, Julius Peppers will get a huge deal, and Mario Williams will get a huge deal while Dwight is locked up for the next 5 or so years. Players are constantly going to complain about their deals. They should either sign shorter deals or shut up.

 

[40yearfan]

Just a clarification. Fitz did not get over 30 Mill in gaurantee's. He got a 15 Mill signing bonus paid to him this season and a 9 Mill option bonus paid to him in 2009 offseason. A total of 24 Mill in gaurantees. Also Fitz deal is actually a 5 year deal with year 5 being a player option. Remember why it took so long to actually get the league to approve the deal. It was becuase of the "if he gets franchised it will cost 23 Mill" clause they ahd an issue with. The league did not like that we were writting our own rules for the franchise tag rule so Fitz and his agent gave up that demand and instead added a 5th year player option at a cost of 5 Mill in base salary. Way, way less then the original clause for a 5th year, and they gave into our demands.

What is also good about that 5th year is that we can now spread that 15 mill signing bonus over 5 years instead of 4 years. Saving us 750K a year. It also spreads out the option bonus over a 4 year period instead of just a 3 year period. Saving us another 750K a year in years 2 thru 5. So becuase the NFLPA didnt like our contract wording we actually got Fitz and his agent to give us a better deal and we were able to add a 5th year helping us to save 750K this year, and 1.5 Mill in years 2 through 5.

2008 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.1 Mill Base Salary = 5.1 Mill Cap hit
2009 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 4.6 Mill Base Salary = 9.75 Mill Cap Hit
2010 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 6.3 Mill Base Salary = 11.55 Mill Cap Hit
2011 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 7 Mill Base Salary = 12.25 Mill Cap Hit
2012 - 3 Mill. Signing bonus + 2.25 Option Bonus + 5 Mill Base Salary (If Fitz picks up his option) = 10.25 Mill Cap Hit

Becuase the NFLPA steped in because of that franchise tag clasue we actually got a better deal that saves us some cap space each season.

Great breakdown Joe. Put in these terms, the contract isn't near as onerous as first thought.

 

[WildBB]

Bingo we're in the big league now. We finally have players good enough that they feel they can ask for big contracts. This is just par for the course.

I know a lot of people here think this is a fairness issue and that Fitz got big money so Boldin wants his too. It aint gonna happen. Fitz held all the cards in that situation.

Maybe they shouldn't have offered those incentives in his contract but he was the second pick in the draft and he was going to ask for those kind of things and I don't remember to many people thinking it was a deal breaker when he signed it. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Boldin was a second rounder and started from a much lower base. If you take Fitz and Boldin and realize that Fitz started with a much higher base you see that he isn't ever going to get the kind of money Fitz gets if they both perform.

Fitz has huge leverage and hes used it to his advantage. Boldin is an equally good player with little or no leverage and all he has is the court of public opinion and thats what hes trying to use.

Its the same with Dockett and the rest, they don't have leverage so they are grumbling. Thats about all they can do.

The system is unfair. Guys like Pace underperform their original contracts but have a big contract year and get rich. Boldin consistently performs well, takes the advantage of the security an extension, and he finds himself suddenly under paid. It aint fair but its the breaks of the game.

That's all fine and dandy, but Quan is the unquestioned leader along with Wilson on this team. Surely that is valuable to this team, along with all his other atributes he brings to the table, all the time.

 

[Shane]

what kind of math is that? 12 divided by 5 is 2.4.

Thats what you call fuzzy math

 

[Stout]

Thats what you call fuzzy math

Did you divide once or did you divide twice, Shane? Well, did you, Shane?

 

[Shane]

Did you divide once or did you divide twice, Shane? Well, did you, Shane?

I'll never tell.

 

[perivolaki]

That's all fine and dandy, but Quan is the unquestioned leader along with Wilson on this team. Surely that is valuable to this team, along with all his other atributes he brings to the table, all the time.

Would the unquestioned leader be asking for a trade or pay raise when he has a valid contract that the team voluntarily renegotiated and he signed and is not up until 2010?

If he's the leader and he forces a trade maybe Dockett will think its okay for him to force a trade even though the Cards renegotiated his contact already.

The unquestioned leader would realize that he is underpaid but that he took the security offered by the Cards when they offered to renegotiate and extended his contract and he signed it. He would realize that if everyone took his line the whole team would be in a shambles in short order.

If he was hurt the last couple of years he would be glad he had the security that the renegotiated contract gave him. There is a risk taken by both parties when the contract is renegotiated. In this case the Cardinals have made out okay so far.

 

[ARZCardinals]

The Cardinals need only to do one simple thing
hold players to their contracts till they have one year left shut up and play

Teams are stupid to redo any deal that has more than one year remaining

You can't win cutting up deal after deal or feeling pushed to trade a player you'd rather not.

Hold Q to his deal be firm... Sux but has to be done or it'll be cry time for every decent player we ever get

 

[joeshmo]

I see the nflpa.org site was redone, do you know if they still have the active player search with salary data?

When they did the new website, that portion of the old website was not tranfered over. It was and still is the last piece of the old website they will transfer and there is internal talks of not doing it at all unless you have a player or agent password.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

I'll never tell.

Shane's logic

12/5 is 2 with a remainder of 2
hence 2.2
rounded to 2.25 - it looks better