Thunder @ Suns 03-30-11

Cheesebeef

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Actually the Duncan story is weaker. Duncan provoked an official and the official responded by throwing Duncan out. Dowdell provoked an official and the official responded with unprofessional, verbal abuse. Big difference.

a) unprofessional verbal "abuse". wow. allegedly the ref called him a little bitch because he was crying about calls. it's part of the way people talk now. no different than someone saying "stop crying you big baby" back in the day. a non-story then... just as it's a non-story now.

b) the Duncan story is WEAKER? A guy laughing on the bench... at god knows what... is provoking an official? And that ref then challenging Duncan to fight him in the parking lot... is weaker?

the above makes zero sense whatsoever to me.
 

Chaplin

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a) unprofessional verbal "abuse". wow. allegedly the ref called him a little bitch because he was crying about calls. it's part of the way people talk now. no different than someone saying "stop crying you big baby" back in the day. a non-story then... just as it's a non-story now.

b) the Duncan story is WEAKER? A guy laughing on the bench... at god knows what... is provoking an official? And that ref then challenging Duncan to fight him in the parking lot... is weaker?

the above makes zero sense whatsoever to me.

Of course, this IS a business (as Sarver and Stern continually say), so let me ask you this--if you were an accountant and your boss or someone in legal or whoever went this route, would it be ok? What if the person called a little bitch was a file clerk, a nobody in the office. Would it then be ok?

It's a fine line. You have some good points, Dowdell isn't exactly Rondo, but then again, where is that kind of behavior condoned in any business?
 

Cheesebeef

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Of course, this IS a business (as Sarver and Stern continually say), so let me ask you this--if you were an accountant and your boss or someone in legal or whoever went this route, would it be ok? What if the person called a little bitch was a file clerk, a nobody in the office. Would it then be ok?

It's a fine line. You have some good points, Dowdell isn't exactly Rondo, but then again, where is that kind of behavior condoned in any business?

who says it's being condoned? do we have any idea what happens behind closed doors with the league's refs. and do we even know if ANY of this happened? no one on press row has said they heard the exchange. they're just going based on the player's word. wouldn't you think if this happened that Coro would be all over it? or the Suns PR people? or Sarver who has no love lost for Stern?

i'm just saying that as the NBA approaches the playoffs, ESPN's probably got bigger fish to fry news-wise with a huge Lakers-Mavs and Celtics-Spurs matchup today, probably focussing on that, than some scrub being thrown out of a blowout loss that has no bearing on the league whatsoever.
 

sunsfan88

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I'm not sure what the prize is but you have definitely won The Worst Analagy of the Year award. Your name has been entered in the all Century contest, congrats.

Steve
Please let me know once you get more info on the prize. :D
 

Evil Ash

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a) unprofessional verbal "abuse". wow. allegedly the ref called him a little bitch because he was crying about calls. it's part of the way people talk now. no different than someone saying "stop crying you big baby" back in the day. a non-story then... just as it's a non-story now.

b) the Duncan story is WEAKER? A guy laughing on the bench... at god knows what... is provoking an official? And that ref then challenging Duncan to fight him in the parking lot... is weaker?

the above makes zero sense whatsoever to me.

This can be a bigger story with the fact that an NBA official may have abused his power. Due to the players involved it will likely be overlooked but it shouldn't be as the league's credibility has taken a hit lately.

As you mentioned "back in the day" it wasn't a problem. However since the league was in its prime there have been more than a few scandals regarding these officials namely that half of the refs were involved in a tax evasion scandal, one ref was arrested for gambling on and fixing games, and as you pointed out with Crawford an instance where the league admitted that he abused his power.

Just because the players involved weren't good players doesn't mean that it should so easily be swept under the rug as it could be a sign to a trend of officials abusing their power. In short, not good
 

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a) unprofessional verbal "abuse". wow. allegedly the ref called him a little bitch because he was crying about calls. it's part of the way people talk now. no different than someone saying "stop crying you big baby" back in the day. a non-story then... just as it's a non-story now.

b) the Duncan story is WEAKER? A guy laughing on the bench... at god knows what... is provoking an official? And that ref then challenging Duncan to fight him in the parking lot... is weaker?

the above makes zero sense whatsoever to me.

Calling someone a "bitch" is not unprofessional? It's not abuse? Wow. Dowdell was in for less than two minutes. How much crying could he have done?

The responses of the officials in the two scenarios are not analogous. That is the difference. And Mauer's verbage is alleged but Crawford's isn't? Both are simply recounted by a player or bystander, no? Also, you're claiming ignorance on what Duncan was laughing at? You're sounding more and more like "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
 

Covert Rain

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i read it and thought... who cares? The players are freaking babies.

now, Duncan getting objected from the bench for laughing... THAT was a big story and was treated as such. this? a player and ref jawing at each other and one of them is a complete scrub? seriously... who gives a crap?

Somewhat disagree. The issue is that the Ref's are suppose to command respect according to the NBA and in return that have to remain impartial and professional.

Throwing a player and calling him a "bitch" is unprofessional and way over the line IMO. So, it is a big deal.

Although, I feel like sometimes these players deserve it.
 
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Cheesebeef

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This can be a bigger story with the fact that an NBA official may have abused his power. Due to the players involved it will likely be overlooked but it shouldn't be as the league's credibility has taken a hit lately.

As you mentioned "back in the day" it wasn't a problem. However since the league was in its prime there have been more than a few scandals regarding these officials namely that half of the refs were involved in a tax evasion scandal, one ref was arrested for gambling on and fixing games, and as you pointed out with Crawford an instance where the league admitted that he abused his power.

Just because the players involved weren't good players doesn't mean that it should so easily be swept under the rug as it could be a sign to a trend of officials abusing their power. In short, not good

has there been ANY corraboration by a reporter that this actually happened? or just word from one player, justifying his actions and his teammates sticking up for their own?
 

Cheesewater

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i'm just saying that as the NBA approaches the playoffs, ESPN's probably got bigger fish to fry news-wise with a huge Lakers-Mavs and Celtics-Spurs matchup today, probably focussing on that, than some scrub being thrown out of a blowout loss that has no bearing on the league whatsoever.

You mean like that huge blockbuster move of the Nets waiving one scrub to sign another scrub to a 10 day?

Bobcats backup center Joel "The Vanilla Gorilla" Pryzbilla out for the rest of the season (9 games?) with a knee injury?
 
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Cheesebeef

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Somewhat disagree. The issue is that the Ref's are suppose to command respect according to the NBA and return that have to remain impartial and professional.

Throwing a player and calling him a "bitch" is unprofessional and way over the line IMO. So, it is a big deal.

apparently not to ANYONE except Suns fans.
 

Evil Ash

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has there been ANY corraboration by a reporter that this actually happened? or just word from one player, justifying his actions and his teammates sticking up for their own?

As of now, there is no corraboration. Like I said though this shouldn't be swept under the rug and an investigation should take place.

If proven true, this suddenly becomes a big deal. Again this league is having credibility issues and this could further damage it
 

Cheesebeef

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Calling someone a "bitch" is not unprofessional? It's not abuse? Wow. Dowdell was in for less than two minutes. How much crying could he have done?

The responses of the officials in the two scenarios are not analogous. That is the difference. And Mauer's verbage is alleged but Crawford's isn't? Both are simply recounted by a player or bystander, no?

uh, NOT ONE REPORTER has corroborated what Dowdell has said. in fact, Dowdell's the only one who said he was direspectful... and even then, no one's gone on the record as saying how he was... nor has anyone backed him up. Our coach hasn't said jack about it, our captain hasn't said jack about it, our media hasn't said jack about it.

With crawford, it was corraborated by the coach, the players on the court on both sides, the media covering the game.

Also, you're claiming ignorance on what Duncan was laughing at?

I'm saying who knows. even if it was a call on the court, throwing a guy out of the game... who's sitting on the bench... because he laughed at a bad call is still ridiculous.

You're sounding more and more like "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

and you're sounding like a conspiracy theorist...
 

Cheesebeef

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You mean like that huge blockbuster move of the Nets waiving one scrub to sign another scrub to a 10 day?

Bobcats backup center Joel "The Vanilla Gorilla" Pryzbilla out for the rest of the season (9 games?) with a knee injury?

news outlets report facts... the above are facts... that effect a team in the running for the playoffs. not rumor and innuedo from scrubs likely trying to justify an excuse for being thrown out of a game and thus losing money.

and did they treat the above as a huge blockbuster move? no.
 

Covert Rain

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I'm saying who knows. even if it was a call on the court, throwing a guy out of the game... who's sitting on the bench... because he laughed at a bad call is still ridiculous.

Again have to disagree on this point. The players have been told and know that you cannot criticize a referee or his calls on or off the court. Everybody knows that.

I have watched that replay. Personally I think Duncan was trying to show up the referee and being an ass. I think he knew the ref was there and did it on purpose. He deserved to get tossed IMO.
 

Cheesebeef

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Non-Suns fans are talking about it on:

prosportsdaily.com
insidehoops.com
realgm.com
clublakers.com

Hang on, I'll get more for you....

ok... when one of them actually brings any kind of facts to the table... or even some support from our coach or GM, you let me know that too.
 

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news outlets report facts... the above are facts... that effect a team in the running for the playoffs. not rumor and innuedo from scrubs likely trying to justify an excuse for being thrown out of a game and thus losing money.

and did they treat the above as a huge blockbuster move? no.

Yes, because ESPN only ever runs stories on facts.... Oh and, the Nets are in the running?

It's a head-scratcher why you'd simply disbelieve Zabian Dowdell, who has appeared to be nothing except a level-headed, sportsman, and prefer to defend last night's officials who were excoriated by Steve Nash of all people.
 

Cheesewater

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ok... when one of them actually brings any kind of facts to the table... or even some support from our coach or GM, you let me know that too.

That post was in response to you indicating that it was only a story to Suns fans. It was not about proving the veracity of the story.
 

Cheesebeef

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Yes, because ESPN only ever runs stories on facts.... Oh and, the Nets are in the running?

I was referring to the Bobcats being in the running. the other story was a transaction... which is a fact that is usually reported.

It's a head-scratcher why you'd simply disbelieve Zabian Dowdell, who has appeared to be nothing except a level-headed, sportsman, and prefer to defend last night's officials who were excoriated by Steve Nash of all people.

no way... Steve Nash complained about the referees! that NEVER happens!

i don't believe or disbelieve Dowdell... i just don't think it's that big a deal and apparently, right now, pretty much no one else but a few suns fans do.
 
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Cheesebeef

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That post was in response to you indicating that it was only a story to Suns fans. It was not about proving the veracity of the story.

yeah, you posted a couple of sites where most of the extremely limited discussions (the longest of which was two pages... others were 6/10 responses) were mostly jokes and LOLs.

for the overwhelming majority of people, no one cares about this... except you guys.
 

Covert Rain

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yeah, you posted a couple of sites where most of the extremely limited discussions (the longest of which was two pages... others were 6/10 responses) were mostly jokes and LOLs.

for the overwhelming majority of people, no one cares about this... except you guys.

The league will probably care but we will never know. They don't publicly reprimand the REFs. I have no doubt they probably will but we will never know.

In the grand scheme of national stories this is only a blip. You can't get people to read something about DD. He does drive traffic to your story. It does not mean it wasn't a big deal. It just means it's not news worthy.

There is a difference.

P.S. Gentry is about to talk about it on the coaches show.
 

Cheesewater

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yeah, you posted a couple of sites where most of the extremely limited discussions (the longest of which was two pages... others were 6/10 responses) were mostly jokes and LOLs.

for the overwhelming majority of people, no one cares about this... except you guys.

For someone who thinks this is a non-story, you are spending quite some time arguing about it....
 

Cheesewater

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yeah, you posted a couple of sites where most of the extremely limited discussions (the longest of which was two pages... others were 6/10 responses) were mostly jokes and LOLs.

for the overwhelming majority of people, no one cares about this... except you guys.

And if the overwhelming majority of people get their sports news from ESPN, they'd just be unaware that anything even happened, right? Just the way Stern wants it.

It does not make this a non-story. It just doesn't.
 

Covert Rain

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According to Gentry the league office has been notified and the league is launching an investigation. Gentry also said he stands by DD and says what the REF did was uncalled for.

So...it happened. The Players are suppose to receive league office phone calls in the coming days regarding investigating the incident.
 

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