Tim Thomas Don't Re-sign...

[Chaplin]

Perhaps the coaching staff and front office want to be absolutely certain that Diaw isn't a one-hit wonder. He may regress when Amare gets back, start or no start. But we won't know until November.

 

[BOLDIN]

I hate to say it but most of Marions offensive rebounds comes from when he misses a layup the first time and then tips it back in himself, id say he adds 2 rebounds to his stats a game by doing that, Amare just makes it the first time.

Marion has fallen in love with his jumper, and we all know it sucks. You could pull a first grader from Ghana and line up 5 nba shooters and he would point out Marion as the least consistent and ugliest shot.

I agree that Marion is a great rebounder, but I think that if we had TT at SF we would have that many more mismatches.

C- Boris Diaw- Biggest Mismatch of all time, lengthy, quick, ahtletic
PF-Stoudemire- He is a mismatch to anybody anytime, no explaination

SF-Tim Thomas- 6'10, 42% 3s- simto dirk, he wont mess chem up on arc, Marion and Amare clash because they are both inside scorers. He had to play as a PF and at times C this season, If Tim were SF it would be unreal. We wouldnt have a 3 point shooter under 40%.

SG-Raja Bell- other wing player
PG-Nash

1. Thomas
2. Barbosa
3. Jones
4. First Round pick- or vet
5. First round pick- or vet

Yes we would be losing out on Marion's good defensive, but I dont think it would hurt our rebounding too bad if we told Amare to get every ball he could. Remember Amare (42) has a bigger vert than Marion and is 4 inches taller. I see Amare averaging 28 and 12 next season shootin 55%.

 

[sunsfn]

Marion will not be traded this year!

The suns are real close to a championship and they will give it a year with Marion, Amare, Nash, Bell, and Diaw.

I would be surprised if KT was traded also.

James Jones has a cheap contract, but they may trade him to help them sign TT for next year. Of course they have to find someone that has cap space or take back salary and that would defeat the trade purpose.

After the draft is over, we will hear.........there is a trade to announce!
Team so and so has traded the rights to #?? to the Suns, and the Suns have traded the rights to #27 and James Joners to team so and so.

 

[BOLDIN]

Perhaps the coaching staff and front office want to be absolutely certain that Diaw isn't a one-hit wonder. He may regress when Amare gets back, start or no start. But we won't know until November.

NO WAY. Amare has the best hands for a big man in the league. I cant remember for my life Amare dropping a pass inside. Diaw's assists would only rise with Amare.

 

[pokerface]

I'll admit trading Marion isnt a totally feel good move. Theres some loyalty there on both sides and Marion is an exceptional player. The deal is though with the emergance of players like Diaw, TT and the return of Amare, and KT, and even the aquiring of Bell (plus Jones) Marion isnt as needed. We can get our boards from Kurt, Amare, and Diaw. We can get our points from virtually any player we got. Plus Bell gives us another defender we didnt have before. Why pay Marion 15+ million when we can get the production out of our other players?

Marion has been great but he's getting older and more expensive. I'd rather we trade him and get a great return on him now than wait too long and give him away later.

 

[Chaplin]

NO WAY. Amare has the best hands for a big man in the league. I cant remember for my life Amare dropping a pass inside. Diaw's assists would only rise with Amare.

Boris Diaw was able to operate around a key that was completely empty of any offensive player, even Tim Thomas. He won't have that with Amare. Amare's "hands" don't matter. If that's the only thing you're basing getting rid of Marion on, then the argument holds little water.

And remember, Boris started dropping triple doubles towards the end of the season--that's right, AFTER Kurt Thomas went down. Not before. What happens after both he and Amare come back? Don't go telling yourself Boris will be an all-star next year, because that isn't going to happen.

I love Boris, and want him on the Suns for a long, long time, but this board is in serious danger of overrating him. Reminds me of those little two week periods when we acquired Joe Johnson when everyone started pimping him as the next Magic Johnson, and then he'd go 3 weeks of playing like crap.

As an aside, what if we trade Marion, for say... Kevin Garnett (shyeah)? Will that help Boris? The way you're talking, in order to get rid of Marion, we'd need to trade him for a stick of gum and a six-pack. Just so that Boris Diaw can start.

 

[BOLDIN]

Your not going to get Kevin Garnett for Marion... It would have to be Marion, both first rounders, Barbosa or Diaw. Remember... We were going to have to give up Our 7th overall pick, Marion, and Joe Johnson to the Magic for Tracy McGrady.

Marion would be a difficult player to trade becuase his value isnt good but he is a great player.

 

[pokerface]

Chaplin I agree Diaw is in danger of being overhyped and may not be consistant enough yet. But lets face it Marion wasn't exactly "Mr. Consistant" either in the playoffs. He had his ups and downs and we're going to be paying him 15+ mill next season. I think we've seen enough out of Diaw to want more and to think he still has considerable upside yet to go makes my mouth water. We may never see that upside if we keep Marion after Amare comes back. Marion may hinder Diaws future growth. That would be a shame because I consider Diaw to be our future more than Marion at this point.

 

[pokerface]

Your not going to get Kevin Garnett for Marion... It would have to be Marion, both first rounders, Barbosa or Diaw. Remember... We were going to have to give up Our 7th overall pick, Marion, and Joe Johnson to the Magic for Tracy McGrady.

Marion would be a difficult player to trade becuase his value isnt good but he is a great player.

I have to disagree here. Marion is quite valuable and I doubt it would take all you are suggesting to get Garnett. Marion is younger than KG and yet puts up virtually the same numbers. I'm not saying they are equal by any stretch but they are not as far off as your trade suggests. KG is older and makes even more rediculous money than the Matrix.

 

[myrondizzo]

without rebounds our team cant run and i cant think of a better rebounder that would be available to replace marion if we were to trade him off. he's overpayed but that is going to cost us in the talent department to move him. and TT cant rebound to save his life. so replace marion with him would cost us 10 rebounds a game.

 

[Chaplin]

without rebounds our team cant run and i cant think of a better rebounder that would be available to replace marion if we were to trade him off. he's overpayed but that is going to cost us in the talent department to move him. and TT cant rebound to save his life. so replace marion with him would cost us 10 rebounds a game.

I hope everyone also remembers that Shawn Marion is a better rebounder than Amare Stoudemire.

 

[pokerface]

without rebounds our team cant run and i cant think of a better rebounder that would be available to replace marion if we were to trade him off. he's overpayed but that is going to cost us in the talent department to move him. and TT cant rebound to save his life. so replace marion with him would cost us 10 rebounds a game.

Marion is our best rebounder no doubt but with Kurt, Amare, and Diaw I think we'll get sufficient boards.

 

[elindholm]

Remember... We were going to have to give up Our 7th overall pick, Marion, and Joe Johnson to the Magic for Tracy McGrady.

Not really. The rumor was that the Magic were asking for that, but in fact they ended up taking far less. There is no evidence at all that the Suns ever seriously considered paying that price, and my guess is that they thought it was a joke.

Also, it's not clear that Garnett's current trade value is any higher than McGrady's was two years ago. McGrady had the injury question mark, but Garnett is much older now (30) than McGrady was then (25), plus his contract is worse. Garnett is a better player, but the rest of the "value equation" is stacked against him.

 

[Chaplin]

Marion is our best rebounder no doubt but with Kurt, Amare, and Diaw I think we'll get sufficient boards.

With Kurt and Amare, even without Shawn, Boris' rebounding totals will fall.

 

[pokerface]

With Kurt and Amare, even without Shawn, Boris' rebounding totals will fall.

I dont know...Diaw seems like a good rebounder. He might get one board less a game...maybe.

 

[pokerface]

Remember... We were going to have to give up Our 7th overall pick, Marion, and Joe Johnson to the Magic for Tracy McGrady.

Not really. The rumor was that the Magic were asking for that, but in fact they ended up taking far less. There is no evidence at all that the Suns ever seriously considered paying that price, and my guess is that they thought it was a joke.

Also, it's not clear that Garnett's current trade value is any higher than McGrady's was two years ago. McGrady had the injury question mark, but Garnett is much older now (30) than McGrady was then (25), plus his contract is worse. Garnett is a better player, but the rest of the "value equation" is stacked against him.

I wouldnt give much more than Marion, Barbosa, and a first rounder for KG.

 

[pokerface]

The thing I dont like about trading Marion for KG is we're still in the same (worse) financial bind and would have to worry about keeping Diaw etc..etc.

 

[boisesuns]

KG costs more but plays better defense and can demand a double team.

 

[Russ Smith]

Boris Diaw was able to operate around a key that was completely empty of any offensive player, even Tim Thomas. He won't have that with Amare. Amare's "hands" don't matter. If that's the only thing you're basing getting rid of Marion on, then the argument holds little water.

And remember, Boris started dropping triple doubles towards the end of the season--that's right, AFTER Kurt Thomas went down. Not before. What happens after both he and Amare come back? Don't go telling yourself Boris will be an all-star next year, because that isn't going to happen.

.

that was my impression watching the playoffs too, that Diaw was thriving in part because nobody worries about post scoring from the Suns so the middle is wide open. So a guy who's always being covered by much bigger players, has an easy time driving.

Put a post scorer in there, the middle clogs up on defense, maybe Diaw can still exploit the matchups, but maybe he won't when it's a lot harder for him to get to the rim?

 

[Evil Ash]

Exactly. Plus now would be a good time to trade Marion because he's coming off a career year and his stock has never been higher.

Bottomline with Amare (and Kurt) returning and having MIP Diaw on the roster means Marion for all his talents is expendable. Not only that but if we keep TT thats just another quality player struggling to get minutes.

But what are you sacrificing in terms of gameplay to give him up? This team was 2 games away from the Finals with Amare and Kurt missing and Raja on a bum leg. Why do people want to get rid of players when they are that close?

Shouldn't you keep them around until you HAVE to trade him? There fine financially going into next year because only Amare's contract and possibly the MLE to add, Diaw's and LB's contract extensions wouldn't go into effect yet. So why change for the sake of change? Economics don't come into play yet.

Besides the point we could have a starting lineup of Amare, Diaw, Marion, Bell, and Nash. It is possible for KT to come off the bench if we view Diaw that highly and it wouldn't take away from his game at all

 

[Goldfield]

Why would Diaws min's drop? We will play all three together.

 

[pokerface]

But what are you sacrificing in terms of gameplay to give him up? This team was 2 games away from the Finals with Amare and Kurt missing and Raja on a bum leg. Why do people want to get rid of players when they are that close?

Shouldn't you keep them around until you HAVE to trade him? There fine financially going into next year because only Amare's contract and possibly the MLE to add, Diaw's and LB's contract extensions wouldn't go into effect yet. So why change for the sake of change? Economics don't come into play yet.

Besides the point we could have a starting lineup of Amare, Diaw, Marion, Bell, and Nash. It is possible for KT to come off the bench if we view Diaw that highly and it wouldn't take away from his game at all

I stated prior that any deal will probably be after next season. Also it wouldnt make me cry to see a starting lineup of "Amare, Diaw, Marion, Bell, and Nash." I'm just saying we have players to develop and a financial side to consider at some point. Marions 15 mill is hard to ignore even if we win a championship with him next season. The NBA is always about thinking ahead and developing players and getting the best team the owner can afford.

Any trade involving Marion would get us something good in return. It probably wouldnt be equal value back but it wouldnt have to be considering the makeup of our team.

 

[Errntknght]

TT's value to the team is that he can body up to most the bigs in the league and force his defender to come out to the three point line - which is great when his defender is the opponent's shot blocker or chief paint defender. His shooting was a little spotty but generally he stood up to the playoff pressure quite well. Importance specifics are that he was our best defender against Brand, though thats not saying too much, and he was surprisingly effective against Nowitzki - though not better than Shawn.

Against that you have that he is not a good overall defender and can be exploited considerably more than our opponents did. He switches absolutely every screen his defender sets - except when D'Antoni had him trapping the P&R - so the other team can dictate who he is guarding. He had no qualms about switching onto Cassell and leaving Nash on Brand! He's very slow giving help in the paint and while he does give a hard foul now and then he doesn't provide much intimidation or shot blocking. For his size he's a less than an average rebounder - he's at his best when his man is playing low and TT is behind him. He will block him out and get the rebound if it comes his way - he won't find someone to block out or go hard after the ball. My biggest concern is his history - if it were a given that he'd play the way he did this year for whatever minutes came his way, I'd be happy with the Suns somehow giving up James Jones, for example, to keep him or maybe even Barbosa. As it is I think I'd rather keep Jones and hope he developes and gets rid of the heebeejeebies in the playoffs.

 

[Covert Rain]

Why would Diaws min's drop? We will play all three together.

I think Diaw comes off the bench next year. I don't see how you can start him over Thomas when Thomas is better on defense and offense. However, I still think Diaw gets his minutes.

He can back up Amare, Kurt or Marion. So there are plenty of minutes for him to get next year. I think Tim Thomas's minutes will hurt more then anyone else.

 

[Silverbullet]

The player that needs to be moved is KT. That will give us a starting 5 of Diaw, Amare, Marion, Bell, Nash, with TT, Barbosa, and Jones off the bench. That team looks pretty damb good. Moving KT gives us alot of flexability this coming year, and maybe explore moving Marion the following year if need be. Maybe try moving KT with a pick to move up in the draft for a C or PG. I also would not mind moving Jones if that would help keep TT around at the mle range. Keep in mind when Diaw and Barbosas extensions kick in Grant, Burk, and House will all be off the books. I think keeping Marion is a must and would rather see KT and Jones hit the road. With that starting 5 and TT and Barbosa off the bench that is what I would like to see happen.