TJ Warren now

[JCSunsfan]

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[Finito]

That's great but he really needs to be more agressive he goes for long stretches where he just goes unnoticed

 

[Chaplin]

Warren needs to be on the bench, advanced stats show he is MUCH more effective when he isn't playing with Devin Booker on the floor.

 

[Matt L]

I think his best role would be 6th man/primary scoring option with the second unit.

 

[Superbone]

Warren needs to be on the bench, advanced stats show he is MUCH more effective when he isn't playing with Devin Booker on the floor.

But even less advanced stats show that players on the bench don't produce... well, anything.

 

[BC867]

Warren needs to be on the bench, advanced stats show he is MUCH more effective when he isn't playing with Devin Booker on the floor.

The downside to that, then, is that Devin will have no NBA quality player to support him on the court. To keep everyone from collapsing on him.

Tyson Chandler is the only such player on the team, but (A) he is a Center and (B) he is in the twilight of his career.

 

[Phrazbit]

We'd probably be best suited having them learn how to play together.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's a catch 22. Stats say he would be a good sixth man but this team is not 6 men deep.

 

[Raze]

The problem with Warren currently is that he is a poor compliment to Booker. He's an above average scorer and a below average defender. (Every game I yell at the TV due to his lack of defensive IQ). Booker is an elite scorer and is approaching the level of an average defender. They have similar strengths and weaknesses.

This team is not losing because they can't score (currently #14 at 106.1/gm).
They are losing because they can't defend (currently dead last at 115.1/gm).

Ideally, you want Booker's complimentary to be a PG who can 3&D and dish. (Currently not one on the team).
You want his SF to slash and defend (future Josh Jackson).

Right now we don't have either. Thus, we aren't complimenting our best player and we're losing because of it.

I really like Warren's O. I hate is D. Thus, I hate him playing alongside Booker. For the time being, he should be out when Booker is in. In when Booker's out.

 

[Hoop Head]

The problem with Warren currently is that he is a poor compliment to Booker. He's an above average scorer and a below average defender. (Every game I yell at the TV due to his lack of defensive IQ). Booker is an elite scorer and is approaching the level of an average defender. They have similar strengths and weaknesses.

This team is not losing because they can't score (currently #14 at 106.1/gm).
They are losing because they can't defend (currently dead last at 115.1/gm).

Ideally, you want Booker's complimentary to be a PG who can 3&D and dish. (Currently not one on the team).
You want his SF to slash and defend (future Josh Jackson).

Right now we don't have either. Thus, we aren't complimenting our best player and we're losing because of it.

I really like Warren's O. I hate is D. Thus, I hate him playing alongside Booker. For the time being, he should be out when Booker is in. In when Booker's out.

I can see staggering their playing time so one of the two is always on the court but TJ deserves more than 15 minutes a night. He's clearly the 2nd best player on the team right now and we shouldn't bench him just so we can add offense to our 2nd unit or because of how he plays with Booker. Clearly they're both producing while playing together and there isn't another player on the team that warrants sitting TJ. You don't just hand out starting jobs and bench your best players in the NBA.

 

[95pro]

They don't necessarily have to start the game together. But their minutes should be staggered less as the game goes on, meaning they should play more together in the 2nd half of a game.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Nonsense, they need to play together. They just lost a cornerpiece of the offense in Bledsoe, give them time. Not to mention the 35 they each dropped in beating Minny.

TJ is a very very good overlooked player and deserves full playing time as the second scoring option in the offense.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think Booker and Warren have issues playing together, the team needs a PG who can get both of them going at the same time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think Booker and Warren have issues playing together, the team needs a PG who can get both of them going at the same time.

It would help, but we don't even need that. Just give them time to figure out where the other likes to get the ball so they can look for each other instead of the "my turn, your turn" thing they have going.

TJ also needs to get a little more active when the ball isn't in his hands... he gets kind of invisible. Booker almost always seems to be in motion, I love it about him.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

TJ will become a better passer on that drive and kick to Dbook spotting up, hes still learning and has just recently become a focal point of the offense, give it time, no concern at all for me at this time.

Besides, that would mean more minutes for josh jackson, who i was in favor of drafting but the guy is no where near ready to see any NBA floor.

 

[Hoop Head]

TJ was really good at moving without the ball his rookie year but playing with ISO dominant PG's caused him not to slash around as much without the ball because no one was looking for him. He's a good scorer on his own but in order for him to really take it to the next level in scoring he needs someone to set him up more than has been happening.

 

[Raze]

All the rebuttals you guys mentioned are offensive natured. I have very few problems with our offense. If Warren only played O I'd be fine with him and Booker playing together. But they obviously don't. Just because he gets us 20 pts/gm doesn't mean he helps us win. What if he gives up 30? He has to outplay his opponent. He has to gain more than he gives up. Sure, on some nights Warren is outscoring his guy which helps you win. But if he's not on his game offensively, he's a deterrent to winning..

Let me be clear, I like TJ Warren. But I like Booker more. And they don't compliment one another defensively.

If possible, I'd keep feeding Warren the ball, jack up his ppg, and sell high. Josh may be hot and cold right now, but as a young rookie that's to be expected. He compliments Booker far more than Warren. Build up that chemistry and run with it.

 

[SirStefan32]

Warren is not any worse defensively than anyone else on the Suns' roster right now.

 

[Hoop Head]

I really don't get why some people aren't high on Warren. If the Suns trade him then he'll just be another player people point to saying the Suns gave up on them too soon. He's on a great contract considering what he contributes and we have him locked up for the next 4 years after this one. What do you think he could net us in a trade? Someone who will contribute as much as he does? Highly unlikely. If he's removed from the lineup now then that would allow opposing defenses to double up on Booker every night because no one else on this team is a threat to put up 20 or more points a game.

Chriss isn't a very good defender and he's not very good offensively either, so why not single him out as someone who shouldn't play with Booker? Same could be said for Ulis.

 

[Errntknght]

TJ was really good at moving without the ball his rookie year but playing with ISO dominant PG's caused him not to slash around as much without the ball because no one was looking for him. He's a good scorer on his own but in order for him to really take it to the next level in scoring he needs someone to set him up more than has been happening.

That was one of the problems with having Watson running the show, and I have to say with having Hornacek before him - they were too stuck on the P&R (and ISOs) to see that other plays were needed to have a robust offense. Granted the P&R gives you three's and shots at the rim but if you don't have the personnel to capitalize on it like GSW and Rockets, you need to diversify. TJ shoots well enough off the slash that's he's equivalent to a driver going to the rim. I blame the coaches more that the PGs for that - Bledsoe was a willing passer but he wasn't a natural creator so you have design plays for him to pass. Heck, back when we had Markieff we could have run a mean pinch post, too, but Horny didn't never saw it - among a whole raft of other options.

The Ulis we had last year could do the job of feeding Booker and TJ, assuming the coach helped a little but he isn't the same guy now - and I'm as puzzled as anyone else as to why. He appears to be essentially healthy as far as moving goes, but his head isn't quite right.

 

[Raze]

I really don't get why some people aren't high on Warren. If the Suns trade him then he'll just be another player people point to saying the Suns gave up on them too soon. He's on a great contract considering what he contributes and we have him locked up for the next 4 years after this one. What do you think he could net us in a trade? Someone who will contribute as much as he does? Highly unlikely. If he's removed from the lineup now then that would allow opposing defenses to double up on Booker every night because no one else on this team is a threat to put up 20 or more points a game.

Chriss isn't a very good defender and he's not very good offensively either, so why not single him out as someone who shouldn't play with Booker? Same could be said for Ulis.

This team just gave up 90 points in the first half. Ulis was bad. Booker was bad. Chriss was bad. Warren was far from the problem on defense. Although Monroe was solid, and Jackson had moments.

I'm not low on Warren, I'm high on Booker. I was a huge Cedric Ceballos fan and no player I've ever seen resembles him more than Warren. But he was a role player (and also on a bad defensive team). It's very hard to win championships with two bad defenders in the back court. (At least GS hides Steph with Klay, Green, and Andre.) Look at what happened tonight. Who's guarding Harden? Booker? Ulis? Warren? He just destroyed them in the first half. We need someone to guard him from tip off.

If I'm looking to build a championship I want all my pieces to fit together with compatible roles. I don't see that on this team right now.

Ulis and Chriss have both been putrid this year. I'm waaaaaay higher on Warren than those two. Ulis is so terrible that they've essentially asked Booker to take over PG duties (and he has struggled in the role). Ulis is an energy bench player. Chriss is a front court player who compliments a defensive Center. He has a long way to go to be a productive player. I have no idea what his role is.

We need a defensive PG to compliment Booker. We don't have one. Trade or draft, it needs to happen.
We need Booker to become the star we know he can be and continue to commit to getting better on D.
We need Josh Jackson to be the D star and slashing SF that we drafted him to be.
We need either Chriss or Bender to figure out their role on this team. Right now they have none.
We need a solid defensive center who can put back garbage on O.

 

[SirStefan32]

Raze, I think you are getting ahead a little bit here. Suns have so many things they need, and they have so many holes on their roster that worrying about Warren not being an ideal complement to Booker is pretty low on the priority list. They don't even have an actual NBA point guard on the roster, they don't have an actual NBA-level PF on the roster, and outside of Warren, they don't have an NBA-level small forward. I am high on Jackson, but he is years away from being a legitimate NBA player. Same goes for Bender.

I think it's a bit premature to talk about perfect fits when 80% of your roster isn't even fit to be bench players in the league.

 

[Hoop Head]

Raze, I think you are getting ahead a little bit here. Suns have so many things they need, and they have so many holes on their roster that worrying about Warren not being an ideal complement to Booker is pretty low on the priority list. They don't even have an actual NBA point guard on the roster, they don't have an actual NBA-level PF on the roster, and outside of Warren, they don't have an NBA-level small forward. I am high on Jackson, but he is years away from being a legitimate NBA player. Same goes for Bender.

I think it's a bit premature to talk about perfect fits when 80% of your roster isn't even fit to be bench players in the league.

This is spot on.

Ulis and Chriss have both been putrid this year. I'm waaaaaay higher on Warren than those two. Ulis is so terrible that they've essentially asked Booker to take over PG duties (and he has struggled in the role). Ulis is an energy bench player. Chriss is a front court player who compliments a defensive Center. He has a long way to go to be a productive player. I have no idea what his role is.

The only thing Chriss compliments is the opposing teams PF. He's awful. I've actually grown to miss Markieff and Channing Frye. I didn't watch much the year we had Beasley but that's who Chriss reminds me of, not so much in terms of potential or play style but they're both bone heads with all of the physical tools to be good players but they don't have it upstairs. They have negative BB-IQ's and Chriss can't even stay on the court for more than 20 minutes a night because of his fouling. He'll make a highlight dunk or block every game but that is it, he's invisible unless he's making stupid fouls.

 

[leclerc]

Chriss is no Amaré, I can tell you that.

 

[Raze]

Raze, I think you are getting ahead a little bit here. Suns have so many things they need, and they have so many holes on their roster that worrying about Warren not being an ideal complement to Booker is pretty low on the priority list. They don't even have an actual NBA point guard on the roster, they don't have an actual NBA-level PF on the roster, and outside of Warren, they don't have an NBA-level small forward. I am high on Jackson, but he is years away from being a legitimate NBA player. Same goes for Bender.

I think it's a bit premature to talk about perfect fits when 80% of your roster isn't even fit to be bench players in the league.

True, I am getting ahead a little. I'm just trying to look down the road a bit to see what our grand scheme is for winning a championship. (I'm pretty sure the FO has no idea what that looks like.) And years from now, I just don't see Booker and Warren together as a viable championship duo. I do see Booker and Jackson though. I'm starting to see Bender as a fit as well. I really love his attitude. All three of them are fighters. Quite obviously we need a couple more pieces and a heck of a lot of time/patience.

Just trying to contribute to the thread fella's. There wasn't a whole lot else to do tonight.