Top 1st round talent QB's most likely gone by 15

[Broseph]

And I don't want to reach for second round talent at 15 when you can get a stud. I am not opposed to trading up into the 2nd round and nabbing a QB, but from the pre-draft positioning its looking like all the 1st round grade QB's will be gone by 15 and we don't have the assets to trade up. It's not like Keim doesn't want to get a QB, but us winning a couple meaningless games at the end of the year really put us out of the range to draft a top QB in the 1st round. Its not all doom and glood though, we can get a game changer at 15, and who knows, maybe some QB slides, but do NOT reach for a 2nd round talent QB at 15, get someone who will start game 1. Ridley could be there at 15 and if I am Keim I am pulling the trigger.

 

[Garthshort]

Who is able to start Game One? I don't think that anyone who is coming into NFL, this year, can start in the first game. EVERYONE knows that Bradford (unless he's injured) will start for Arizona. And if we get a QB at #15, so be it. SK is saying that he (??) is our QBOTF. But wait, "Mel Kiper says that he's a second round talent". Give me a break.

 

[Wellthatsjustfine]

Great post. It’s been irritatibgvlistening to people clamor and bitch about how we better move up. They act like you just sign up ahead of time and are guaranteed the pick lol. We don’t have anything to move up with. It’s not even an option anymore. Maybe when Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield are tearing it up, some of us will finally start to realize that those meaningless wins in December are just that.

With all that said, our first rounder this year will likely suck. That’s Keim’s signature move. I think the pick will be Da’Ron Payne, Bama.

 

[Stout]

And I don't want to reach for second round talent at 15 when you can get a stud. I am not opposed to trading up into the 2nd round and nabbing a QB, but from the pre-draft positioning its looking like all the 1st round grade QB's will be gone by 15 and we don't have the assets to trade up. It's not like Keim doesn't want to get a QB, but us winning a couple meaningless games at the end of the year really put us out of the range to draft a top QB in the 1st round. Its not all doom and glood though, we can get a game changer at 15, and who knows, maybe some QB slides, but do NOT reach for a 2nd round talent QB at 15, get someone who will start game 1. Ridley could be there at 15 and if I am Keim I am pulling the trigger.

I'm not convinced of that. Keim might just have the (stupid, idiotic) philosophy of never drafting a QB high, of just going after vets.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I have never understood the reasoning behind drafting a quarterback in the second round. Yeah sure, if you already have your quarterback of the future and you want to gamble but then it should be no earlier than the fourth round. It's like this. If you do not have your franchise QB, understanding that QB is the most important position on the field, and the guy you then draft is regulated to the second round because another guy took precedent over him at another position? Well, you obviously did not think that highly of the guy and who should get their hopes up too high by that act which anything past the first is then stating it's a reach. If you believe in a quarterback, you take him in the first round and do not waste the pick in an attempt to win the value game called the draft in my opinion

 

[Solar7]

I have never understood the reasoning behind drafting a quarterback in the second round. Yeah sure, if you already have your quarterback of the future and you want to gamble but then it should be no earlier than the fourth round. It's like this. If you do not have your franchise QB, understanding that QB is the most important position on the field, and the guy you then draft is regulated to the second round because another guy took precedent over him at another position? Well, you obviously did not think that highly of the guy and who should get their hopes up too high by that act which anything past the first is then stating it's a reach. If you believe in a quarterback, you take him in the first round and do not waste the pick in an attempt to win the value game called the draft in my opinion

Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Jimmy Garoppolo, and Drew Brees say hello. A better track record of valuable 2nd round QBs in the past 20 years than there are succesful 1st round trade-ups.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Great post. It’s been irritatibgvlistening to people clamor and bitch about how we better move up. They act like you just sign up ahead of time and are guaranteed the pick lol. We don’t have anything to move up with. It’s not even an option anymore. Maybe when Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield are tearing it up, some of us will finally start to realize that those meaningless wins in December are just that.

With all that said, our first rounder this year will likely suck. That’s Keim’s signature move. I think the pick will be Da’Ron Payne, Bama.

So, let's get this straight: Are you suggesting that winning games at the end-of-year using a depleted O-line, second and third string Qbs, not to mention other missing pieces - was not enough of an advantage to the opposition?

Are we going to blame Keim for being out-tanked?

For one, I'm proud of guys who fought until the end.

P.S. There will be a stud QB in the draft; a solid starter; a mediocre starter; a career backup and a bust in the top 5 selected... IMO. You get a trillion dollars if you can put names to all 5.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

So, let's get this straight: Are you suggesting that winning games at the end-of-year using a depleted O-line, second and third string Qbs, not to mention other missing pieces - was not enough of an advantage to the opposition?

Are we going to blame Keim for being out-tanked?

For one, I'm proud of guys who fought until the end.

P.S. There will be a stud QB in the draft; a solid starter; a mediocre starter; a career backup and a bust in the top 5 selected... IMO. You get a trillion dollars if you can put names to all 5.

Agreed...you will also be looking back at QBs not drafted in this 1st round and apply the same labels.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[BigRedRage]

Who is able to start Game One? I don't think that anyone who is coming into NFL, this year, can start in the first game. EVERYONE knows that Bradford (unless he's injured) will start for Arizona. And if we get a QB at #15, so be it. SK is saying that he (??) is our QBOTF. But wait, "Mel Kiper says that he's a second round talent". Give me a break.

hes talking about a non QB at 15 that can start in game one.

 

[BigRedRage]

get a stud skill player at 15 or trade down, get more picks and take a QB in rounds 2 or 3 that is capable. there are a few.

 

[BW52]

Well most think these teams will definately be looking at QB in Round 1
1.Cleveland- Sam Darnold-Cleveland gets their possible franchise QB
2.NYG-Josh Rosen--learns behind Eli for a couple of years
3.Jets-Josh Allen-big armed QB who caln handle Cold weather
5.Denver-QBOF -Mayfield ? learn the ropes from Keenum
11.Miami-Lamar Jackson ? takeover from Tannehill in hometown
12 Buffalo-Mason Rudolph ?-Buffalo goes with AJ McCarron while Rudolph and Nate Peterman battle for backup
13.Washington QBOF-probable 2nd or 3rd rd QB
15.AZ-?

It could still be a possibility Buffalo trades up into top 4 for one of top QBs

 

[Totally_Red]

Guessing the Cardinals won't reach for a QB at #15 and end up drafting offensive line, defensive back or Vita Vea. The top 4 will be gone in the first 5 or 6 picks IMO.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Well most think these teams will definately be looking at QB in Round 1
1.Cleveland- Sam Darnold-Cleveland gets their possible franchise QB
2.NYG-Seth Rosen--learns behind Eli for a couple of years
3.Jets-Josh Allen-big armed QB who caln handle Cold weather
5.Denver-QBOF -Mayfield ? learn the ropes from Keenum
11.Miami-Lamar Jackson ? takeover from Tannehill in hometown
12 Buffalo-Mason Rudolph ?-Buffalo goes with AJ McCarron while Rudolph and Nate Peterman battle for backup
13.Washington QBOF-probable 2nd or 3rd rd QB
15.AZ-?

It could still be a possibility Buffalo trades up into top 4 for one of top QBs

Need to add Pat, Green Bay, and Steelers to teams who may want to move up. Pats gave JG to the 49ers (one of their few bad moves), Rogers has as many health-issues as our guy Bradford with a history of breaking both clavicles while being tackled, Roth has talked about retirement.

Could well see the Steelers considering Allen a Roth-clone and going for him (if they are still going to run that style offense).

 

[BW52]

Need to add Pat, Green Bay, and Steelers to teams who may want to move up. Pats gave JG to the 49ers (one of their few bad moves), Rogers has as many health-issues as our guy Bradford with a history of breaking both clavicles while being tackled, Roth has talked about retirement.

Could well see the Steelers considering Allen a Roth-clone and going for him (if they are still going to run that style offense).

I could see Pitt drafting a QBOF in round 2-3.( Mike White WKU,Luke Falk ) or waiting to late in draft and getting a Kurt Benkert or even a Chase Litton or Danny Etling .A big strong-arm QB to develop.
As for GB they have Rodgers,Hundley,Joe Callahan,Deshone Kizer on roster right now.I think GB has too many other needs to go qB early.They really need WR,DB,passrushers.
As for New England-i read they really like Lauletta and Falk

 

[Solar7]

Well most think these teams will definately be looking at QB in Round 1
1.Cleveland- Sam Darnold-Cleveland gets their possible franchise QB
2.NYG-Seth Rosen--learns behind Eli for a couple of years
3.Jets-Josh Allen-big armed QB who caln handle Cold weather
5.Denver-QBOF -Mayfield ? learn the ropes from Keenum
11.Miami-Lamar Jackson ? takeover from Tannehill in hometown
12 Buffalo-Mason Rudolph ?-Buffalo goes with AJ McCarron while Rudolph and Nate Peterman battle for backup
13.Washington QBOF-probable 2nd or 3rd rd QB
15.AZ-?

It could still be a possibility Buffalo trades up into top 4 for one of top QBs

I don't think this scenario is totally out of the question, but I'd be very surprised with 6 QBs going on the top 12. 4 in the top 5 wouldn't shock me though.

 

[az jam]

IMO Jackson, Rudolph and Lauletta will all be there at #15 when the Cards pick. The question will be do the Cards want any of them that early. They could all be gone by the time the Cards pick in round 2 unless they move up like last year to get Budda Baker.

 

[TRW]

15. AZ-Josh Rosen. Hey, the Giants took Seth Rosen and that left Josh to drop?

Just Kidding Solar

I just couldn't resist...

 

[BigRedRage]

IMO Jackson, Rudolph and Lauletta will all be there at #15 when the Cards pick. The question will be do the Cards want any of them that early. They could all be gone by the time the Cards pick in round 2 unless they move up like last year to get Budda Baker.

or find a trade back partner, get their second and swap firsts.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have never understood the reasoning behind drafting a quarterback in the second round. Yeah sure, if you already have your quarterback of the future and you want to gamble but then it should be no earlier than the fourth round. It's like this. If you do not have your franchise QB, understanding that QB is the most important position on the field, and the guy you then draft is regulated to the second round because another guy took precedent over him at another position? Well, you obviously did not think that highly of the guy and who should get their hopes up too high by that act which anything past the first is then stating it's a reach. If you believe in a quarterback, you take him in the first round and do not waste the pick in an attempt to win the value game called the draft in my opinion

Exactly. If the Cardinals like a QB at #15, draft him there.

 

[Chopper0080]

If we take the 5ht or 6th best QB when we are at 15, we just better be ready to use our first rounder in 2019 on a QB as well.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Exactly. If the Cardinals like a QB at #15, draft him there.

Depending upon which mock you look at or which forum member you read, by the time we get to #15 there will be 4-5-6-7? QBs already off the board.

For the Cards to take a QB at #15 would mean that he is higher-rated by the Cards than a long list of other position players who are #1 or #2 at their position.

I can't see that happening. Without any other method to rate the players, I pay attention to the value assigned by several of the pre-draft rating services such as those posted by NFL.com (spare the criticism---I'm fully aware that these ratings are not 100% spot on). My really big assumption here is that the Card's draft board is going to be close to the draft value generated by NFL.com (When you assume you can make an ASS out of U and ME)

By the time you get to 4-5 on the QB choices, you are looking at players who grade out at no higher than some of the FA QBs still on the market. The big difference is there is actual game film on the vet FA QBs that actually shows how they perform at the NFL level. With the rooks, you can only hazard a guess and string together a whole bunch of IFS.

There are QBs who exceed their pre-draft ratings. Most recent example is RWilson/Seahags---who went in the 4th round mainly due his height vs NFL players in the D-box. There are way more QBs who don't exceed their ratings.

Let the other teams get into the WAL-Mart Black Friday shopping frenzy for that average piece of Christmas junk. I'd be plenty happy if someone like Quenton Nelson (OG), Roaqun Smith (LB) or Rasshan Evans (LB) drops to 15. Nelson is rated as one of the highest players coming out and, due to the QB feeding frenzy, has been mocked at falling all the way to the Seahags at #18---Cards should be there to take him first.

Even if that 5th rated QB turns into a starter for some other team who made the gamble, I'd be plenty happy with Nelson blocking the likes of the Rams DL with Aaron Donald and maybe Suh.

 

[Minski]

Well most think these teams will definately be looking at QB in Round 1
1.Cleveland- Sam Darnold-Cleveland gets their possible franchise QB
2.NYG-Seth Rosen--learns behind Eli for a couple of years
3.Jets-Josh Allen-big armed QB who caln handle Cold weather
5.Denver-QBOF -Mayfield ? learn the ropes from Keenum
11.Miami-Lamar Jackson ? takeover from Tannehill in hometown
12 Buffalo-Mason Rudolph ?-Buffalo goes with AJ McCarron while Rudolph and Nate Peterman battle for backup
13.Washington QBOF-probable 2nd or 3rd rd QB
15.AZ-?

It could still be a possibility Buffalo trades up into top 4 for one of top QBs

I am getting the feeling that Giants take Nelson or Barkley at 2. They have been desperately trying to get guards in FA. I see the possible scenario...

1. CLE - Darnold
2. NYG - Nelson
3. NYJ - Allen
4. BUF - Rosen

 

[Solar7]

If we take the 5ht or 6th best QB when we are at 15, we just better be ready to use our first rounder in 2019 on a QB as well.

The depth of this class has been talked about quite a bit. Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph might be higher picks in any other draft. I'm not going to plant my flag and say we should go for one like they're a guarantee (I want a WR really right here), but we might not have a chance at any of the young QBs if we don't pull the trigger at #15.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I am getting the feeling that Giants take Nelson or Barkley at 2. They have been desperately trying to get guards in FA. I see the possible scenario...

1. CLE - Darnold
2. NYG - Nelson
3. NYJ - Allen
4. BUF - Rosen

The Giants 'earned' their #2 spot in the draft based on their horrible record last year. They need to take full advantage of that disaster by either (1) Taking their QBOTF with Eli getting near the end or (2) Trading out of that pick and scooping up a bounty of picks so they will be able to trade up when they need that QBOTF. If they see the options at QB---even with the #2 pick---as not worthy of #2 then they need to move.

If the Giants take Nelson (OG) at #2, there will be riots in the streets by Giant fans. At the least, they should take Barkley---best player in the draft with HOF player written all over him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Depending upon which mock you look at or which forum member you read, by the time we get to #15 there will be 4-5-6-7? QBs already off the board.

For the Cards to take a QB at #15 would mean that he is higher-rated by the Cards than a long list of other position players who are #1 or #2 at their position.

I can't see that happening. Without any other method to rate the players, I pay attention to the value assigned by several of the pre-draft rating services such as those posted by NFL.com (spare the criticism---I'm fully aware that these ratings are not 100% spot on). My really big assumption here is that the Card's draft board is going to be close to the draft value generated by NFL.com (When you assume you can make an ASS out of U and ME)

By the time you get to 4-5 on the QB choices, you are looking at players who grade out at no higher than some of the FA QBs still on the market. The big difference is there is actual game film on the vet FA QBs that actually shows how they perform at the NFL level. With the rooks, you can only hazard a guess and string together a whole bunch of IFS.

There are QBs who exceed their pre-draft ratings. Most recent example is RWilson/Seahags---who went in the 4th round mainly due his height vs NFL players in the D-box. There are way more QBs who don't exceed their ratings.

Let the other teams get into the WAL-Mart Black Friday shopping frenzy for that average piece of Christmas junk. I'd be plenty happy if someone like Quenton Nelson (OG), Roaqun Smith (LB) or Rasshan Evans (LB) drops to 15. Nelson is rated as one of the highest players coming out and, due to the QB feeding frenzy, has been mocked at falling all the way to the Seahags at #18---Cards should be there to take him first.

Even if that 5th rated QB turns into a starter for some other team who made the gamble, I'd be plenty happy with Nelson blocking the likes of the Rams DL with Aaron Donald and maybe Suh.

Using Draft Tracker at NFL.com as you suggest, where do you draw the line where a QB is not worthy of being drafted at #15 but may not be there when the Cardinals draft at #47 in the second round. Of course this is assuming the Cardinals do not move around in these rounds.

For sake of discussion there seems to be a tier 1 of Darnold.

A tier 2 of Rosen, Mayfield, Allen and Jackson.

Then tier 3 of Rudolph, White and Falk.

Of the above QBs I'm wondering where the Cardinals draw the line and move on to another position in the first round.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position