Trade Rumors!

[Mainstreet]

The Suns need the player that has the most potential of becoming a star.

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I agree. NBA people seem to love Oladipo's work ethic and athleticism but do not project him becoming a star. I'm leaning more and more towards Bennett at #5 of the players that may be available. I would not mind if the Suns traded down.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree. NBA people seem to love Oladipo's work ethic and athleticism but do not project him becoming a star. I'm leaning more and more towards Bennett at #5 of the players that may be available. I would not mind if the Suns traded down.

I would guess that the players with the highest ceiling are Bennett, McLemore, and Noel--in that order. Oladipo is not far behind IMO.

 

[elindholm]

I would guess that the players with the highest ceiling are Bennett, McLemore, and Noel--in that order. Oladipo is not far behind IMO.

Bennett, really? Which past NBA star could Bennett's game develop into? Or are his skills so unique that he'd carve out a new prototype? It sounds like the Rodney Rogers comparisons are pretty much on the mark, and Rogers was a solid player, but where's the high ceiling?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I would guess that the players with the highest ceiling are Bennett, McLemore, and Noel--in that order. Oladipo is not far behind IMO.

Agreed, I like Noel/Mac/Dipo in that order.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bennett, really? Which past NBA star could Bennett's game develop into? Or are his skills so unique that he'd carve out a new prototype? It sounds like the Rodney Rogers comparisons are pretty much on the mark, and Rogers was a solid player, but where's the high ceiling?

Larry Johnson or if I want to stretch it, Charles Barkley.

 

[HooverDam]

Bennett, really? Which past NBA star could Bennett's game develop into? Or are his skills so unique that he'd carve out a new prototype? It sounds like the Rodney Rogers comparisons are pretty much on the mark, and Rogers was a solid player, but where's the high ceiling?

He's a black, kinda short PF from UNLV, obviously he's Larry Johnson.

Sadly, I've seen this comparison a lot which seems nonsensical.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's a black, kinda short PF from UNLV, obviously he's Larry Johnson.

Sadly, I've seen this comparison a lot which seems nonsensical.

What makes it nonsensical? I'm not saying it isn't but you just rattled off several things they have in common and then laughed at the idea of a comparison.

I've never wavered, Bennett is the best player I saw in college this season. I was a little worried there for awhile when his scoring, rebounding and style of game changed but knowing that it was a result of his shoulder injury answered a lot of questions. For those interested, go look at his stats pre-injury and post-injury. He went from getting a dozen or so free throws most games to just 2 or 3. He stopped playing physically, deferred to others on the court and settled for taking jumpers but that was not the player that dominated college ball in the first 2 months of the season.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Passing on Mac/Dipo for a bunch of mediocre/unproven talent would be a huge mistake. The only thing that matters in the NBA is stars, and not taking the only potential stars in a weak draft for more role player picks is about the worst thing you could do.

agreed. the ceiling for those guys is much higher IMO then...well...pretty much everyone else in the draft.

 

[elindholm]

Larry Johnson or if I want to stretch it, Charles Barkley.

Hmm, I'd entirely forgotten about Larry Johnson for some reason. Okay, that's somewhat intriguing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I just keep hearing scouts say that Bennetts offensive skill set is something really special and he is probably the best offensive prospect in the draft. I am not judge in particular, that's just what I keep hearing.

Again, I was just listing players with the highest ceiling. To me, the player with the best combination of ceiling, floor and intangibles is Oladipo.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hmm, I'd entirely forgotten about Larry Johnson for some reason. Okay, that's somewhat intriguing.

Elton Brand body. With a more varied offensive game. The problem is that his defense is atrocious.

I keep having Armen Gilliam flashbacks.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just keep hearing scouts say that Bennetts offensive skill set is something really special and he is probably the best offensive prospect in the draft. I am not judge in particular, that's just what I keep hearing.

Again, I was just listing players with the highest ceiling. To me, the player with the best combination of ceiling, floor and intangibles is Oladipo.

I haven't compared stats or anything but when I read about Oladipo, I keep thinking of Michael Finley. If he were going to be as good as Finley I would change my thinking and draft him at #5. I'm liking Bennett right now.

 

[SirStefan32]

Bennett is MUCH better offensively than Rodney Rogers was, but Elton Brand comparison is ridiculous. Brand always loved contact, and until his major injury, he was one of the best rebounders out there. Bennett doesn't like contact nearly as much, he makes Steve Nash look like Jason Kidd/ Rondo on defense, and he seems about as durable as Greg Oden. I'd take him if McLemore, Oladipo, Len, and Porter were gone, but let's be realistic about who Bennett is- a very soft tweener who can score.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What is it about Porter that some of you like so much? I don't see it.

 

[SirStefan32]

I haven't compared stats or anything but when I read about Oladipo, I keep thinking of Michael Finley. If he were going to be as good as Finley I would change my thinking and draft him at #5. I'm liking Bennett right now.

I think worst case scenario is Tony Allen, and the best case scenario is Michael Finley. The way I look at Oladipo is this- a year ago, he could not score, and the only reason he was a candidate to be taken at the end of first round was his defense.

One year later, he can score- his shot is much better, and he is much better moving without the ball. There is no reason to believe he won't continue to improve. Is he ever going to be a go-to scorer who can average 25 points per game by creating his own shots? Not likely, but I think he can be a good 3rd/4th option if he continues to improve his shooting and average 12-15 per game while being a defensive stopper. He could probably average more if he ends up on a fastbreak team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Bennett is MUCH better offensively than Rodney Rogers was, but Elton Brand comparison is ridiculous. Brand always loved contact, and until his major injury, he was one of the best rebounders out there. Bennett doesn't like contact nearly as much, he makes Steve Nash look like Jason Kidd/ Rondo on defense, and he seems about as durable as Greg Oden. I'd take him if McLemore, Oladipo, Len, and Porter were gone, but let's be realistic about who Bennett is- a very soft tweener who can score.

I don't think soft tweeners shoot double digit free throws and prior to the shoulder injury that's exactly what Bennett did. I think he had like 7 in one game against Oregon and 12 to 14 in most of the others. After hurting his shoulder he stopped taking the contact and he stopped even pretending to play D. I prefer to view him as the player he was before he tore his shoulder up. And I don't buy the soft label, he stayed out there for the rest of the season with that injured shoulder.

I worry that he's shown no signs of an inside game but I'm hoping that was by design. I'm also worried that I've heard rumors about weight control during his rehab but I'd still grab him if he fell to us.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

What is it about Porter that some of you like so much? I don't see it.

Heh, that's a good question Cheese. I am different from an average NBA fan in that I appreciate basketball fundamentals more than I appreciate someone's ability to dunk over someone and get on Sport Center's top 10.

Porter is just a fundamentally solid player. His footwork, his spacial awareness, his understanding of angles, and some other fundamental skills are just flat-out amazing for a player of any age, let alone a 20 year old. He is an outstanding defender who became a decent shooter, and has some athleticism. I see him as a much more athletic Dudley, or maybe even a Prince clone. Definitely not a game-changer, but I think he will be a SOLID contributor with a long and successful NBA career. With the fifth pick in a relatively weak draft (as far as potential game-changers go, anyway), I think we could do worse than that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think worst case scenario is Tony Allen, and the best case scenario is Michael Finley. The way I look at Oladipo is this- a year ago, he could not score, and the only reason he was a candidate to be taken at the end of first round was his defense.

One year later, he can score- his shot is much better, and he is much better moving without the ball. There is no reason to believe he won't continue to improve. Is he ever going to be a go-to scorer who can average 25 points per game by creating his own shots? Not likely, but I think he can be a good 3rd/4th option if he continues to improve his shooting and average 12-15 per game while being a defensive stopper. He could probably average more if he ends up on a fastbreak team.

I have two concerns about Victor. First off, his shooting seemed to abandon him once the defense became aware he could actually put the ball in the hole when left unguarded. His stats in the second half of the season show him struggling from mid-range and beyond. Secondly, despite a lot of Dwyane Wade comparisons, I just don't think he looks fluid out there when he drives with the ball. I think he's going to have to learn to shorten his dribble and pass while driving better or he's going to be a turnover machine.

I love his effort and I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Suns uni but I'd be surprised if he grew into stardom. I see him more as an Arron Affalo meets Raja Bell kind of player than a Michael Finley or Dwyane Wade.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Heh, that's a good question Cheese. I am different from an average NBA fan in that I appreciate basketball fundamentals more than I appreciate someone's ability to dunk over someone and get on Sport Center's top 10.

Porter is just a fundamentally solid player. His footwork, his spacial awareness, his understanding of angles, and some other fundamental skills are just flat-out amazing for a player of any age, let alone a 20 year old. He is an outstanding defender who became a decent shooter, and has some athleticism. I see him as a much more athletic Dudley, or maybe even a Prince clone. Definitely not a game-changer, but I think he will be a SOLID contributor with a long and successful NBA career. With the fifth pick in a relatively weak draft (as far as potential game-changers go, anyway), I think we could do worse than that.

I'd agree and I'll add, he simply makes his teammates better. I think he's more like a wing version of Boris Diaw without the party mentality.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't think soft tweeners shoot double digit free throws and prior to the shoulder injury that's exactly what Bennett did. I think he had like 7 in one game against Oregon and 12 to 14 in most of the others. After hurting his shoulder he stopped taking the contact and he stopped even pretending to play D. I prefer to view him as the player he was before he tore his shoulder up. And I don't buy the soft label, he stayed out there for the rest of the season with that injured shoulder.

I worry that he's shown no signs of an inside game but I'm hoping that was by design. I'm also worried that I've heard rumors about weight control during his rehab but I'd still grab him if he fell to us.

Steve

That's a fair point/ analysis, Steve. It is quite possible that it was his injury that was causing him to look as soft and clueless as he looked. Some of my criticism is probably not warranted.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bennett is MUCH better offensively than Rodney Rogers was, but Elton Brand comparison is ridiculous. Brand always loved contact, and until his major injury, he was one of the best rebounders out there. Bennett doesn't like contact nearly as much, he makes Steve Nash look like Jason Kidd/ Rondo on defense, and he seems about as durable as Greg Oden. I'd take him if McLemore, Oladipo, Len, and Porter were gone, but let's be realistic about who Bennett is- a very soft tweener who can score.

However, Bennett is from a freshman class and he is only 20. Who is to say he cannot develop. His physique is intimidating even if he is tad short. I can see where he can get time at the 3/4 plus he can score. IMO, the Suns don't have much in regard to talent at the 3/4. I'm not high on the Morris twins, Scola will likely be gone, I do not see a miracle happening with Beasley, Channing Frye may not be back nor Wesley Johnson. I like PJ Tucker but he is listed as a SG and he is at his best as a bench player. Then add the possibility of Gortat leaving and there are a lot of reasons for the Suns to look big. I think Bennett is a talent if motivated.

 

[SirStefan32]

I have two concerns about Victor. First off, his shooting seemed to abandon him once the defense became aware he could actually put the ball in the hole when left unguarded. His stats in the second half of the season show him struggling from mid-range and beyond. Secondly, despite a lot of Dwyane Wade comparisons, I just don't think he looks fluid out there when he drives with the ball. I think he's going to have to learn to shorten his dribble and pass while driving better or he's going to be a turnover machine.

I love his effort and I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Suns uni but I'd be surprised if he grew into stardom. I see him more as an Arron Affalo meets Raja Bell kind of player than a Michael Finley or Dwyane Wade.

Steve

Oh I agree that he is not going to be anything like Wade.
Let's be honest- Oladipo cannot put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. He works hard enough that I have no concerns about his shooting. He will continue to improve because he is the guy who will come to practice and hour early and stay an hour late to shoot thousands of threes. Putting the ball on the floor and creating your own shot are skills that are a lot more difficult to acquire at that age.

 

[SirStefan32]

However, Bennett is from a freshman class and he is only 20. Who is to say he cannot develop. His physique is intimidating even if he is tad short. I can see where he can get time at the 3/4 plus he can score. IMO, the Suns don't have much in regard to talent at the 3/4. I'm not high on the Morris twins, Scola will likely be gone, I do not see a miracle happening with Beasley, Channing Frye may not be back nor Wesley Johnson. I like PJ Tucker but he is listed as a SG and he is at his best as a bench player. Then add the possibility of Gortat leaving and there are a lot of reasons for the Suns to look big. I think Bennett is a talent if motivated.

Well, who is to say that Noel can't develop a deadly sky hook that will allow him to average 30 points per game? Who's to say that Oladipo can't develop into a 45% shooter beyond the ark? Who's to say that McLemore can't pull his head out of his ass and average 30 points per game? Who's to say that a rabid dog isn't gonna bite me on the ass when I walk out of my house tomorrow?

Anything is possible, and all of us are speculating and guessing here. From my perspective, some skills translate from college (or Europe) to the NBA- rebounding being one example. Weaknesses translate into the NBA really well, too- defense being a great example. If you can't guard a chair in college, you will not be able to guard a chair in the NBA. He'll be able to score, but he will not be able to defend. He's too short to guard PFs, and way too slow to guard faster SFs.

Maybe he'll end up being the best player in this draft class, but I just don't see it.

 

[carey]

I'm also worried that I've heard rumors about weight control during his rehab but I'd still grab him if he fell to us.

He's at 261 lbs. right now.

 

[chickenhead]

Heh, that's a good question Cheese. I am different from an average NBA fan in that I appreciate basketball fundamentals more than I appreciate someone's ability to dunk over someone and get on Sport Center's top 10.

Porter is just a fundamentally solid player. His footwork, his spacial awareness, his understanding of angles, and some other fundamental skills are just flat-out amazing for a player of any age, let alone a 20 year old. He is an outstanding defender who became a decent shooter, and has some athleticism. I see him as a much more athletic Dudley, or maybe even a Prince clone. Definitely not a game-changer, but I think he will be a SOLID contributor with a long and successful NBA career. With the fifth pick in a relatively weak draft (as far as potential game-changers go, anyway), I think we could do worse than that.

I like the sound of that. Of course in the draft we are obsessed with draft order: justifiably because of the financial considerations, but then we also want the best value--so we think a pick should be the equal of the best values we can remember at that pick. We remember the draft order of top picks who pan out, the lower picks who surprise us, and the busts. We forget where many solid players were picked. With the rookie pay scale, drafting a solid player you are able to sign to a second contract appropriate to his performance is not the worst thing.

I guess this is just a long-winded way of saying that a pick should be evaluated against both the booms and the busts. Maybe you don't get a superstar, but if a few years down the road you pick has contributed consistently more than the average after you include the picks who are riding the bench or out of the league--you come out ahead. Okay, that was long-winded, too. Can't wait to see who we draft.

PS: we have both an old Cards and a new Cards emoticon. I wish we had an old Suns logo.