Trade Stanton - Barkley new #2

Brak

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Stanton has looked AWFUL all preseason, and Barkley has shown flashes of talent.. and tonight looks strong. I may be nuts, but right now I have a LOT more confidence in his abilities than Stanton's. IF somebody will give them decent value for Stanton - Minnesota, Dallas? - I say let'r rip. AmIright?
 

Redneck Voodoo

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IDK, Stanton filled in well for CP a couple of years ago when nobody expected it. Barkley really hasn't done anything in the NFL yet. These games just don't excite me all that much.
 

BigRedRage

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IDK, Stanton filled in well for CP a couple of years ago when nobody expected it. Barkley really hasn't done anything in the NFL yet. These games just don't excite me all that much.
Barkley is far more accurate. Stanton reminds me of Derrick Anderson and John Skelton those year. Air mail constantly

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LoyaltyisaCurse

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Have to temper the enthusiasm for Barkley from this game, as it's mostly versus players who will be jobless tomorrow.
 
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Brak

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Stanton has been playing against ham & eggers too, and has looked absolutely AWFUL. Derek Anderson was a good comparison. Barkley is making some great throws, good pocket presence too. Let's not forget the guy was projected to be a top 10 draft pick the year before he came out. He has legit talent. Stanton has set a low bar. Ship him out!
 

Redneck Voodoo

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Barkley is far more accurate. Stanton reminds me of Derrick Anderson and John Skelton those year. Air mail constantly

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I'm just talking about when it counts. I've seen Stanton against 1st team defenses in real-time. I just haven't seen it with Barkley yet. JMHO, but Stanton compared to Anderson and Skelton just seems a bit off.
 

BigRedRage

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I'm just talking about when it counts. I've seen Stanton against 1st team defenses in real-time. I just haven't seen it with Barkley yet. JMHO, but Stanton compared to Anderson and Skelton just seems a bit off.
He throws darts, too high, constantly. Just like Scud

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Shane

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Have to temper the enthusiasm for Barkley from this game, as it's mostly versus players who will be jobless tomorrow.

That goes both ways and it's all relative… His offensive line his receivers and running backs his supporting are in the same boat You could say if he had better talent he might actually perform better
 

oaken1

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have seen enough from Barkley that I would really like to see what he could do after a week of practicing with our #1's
 

bojack

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I wasn't too high on Barkley from his earlier reps and I didn't even think he deserved a PS spot, let alone a roster spot. The way I looked at it is if you can't beat out Stanton we have no need for you because Stanton does not deserve to be on the 53 IMHO. But tonight he showed some promise. Granted Barkley is playing against players that won't even be on a PS come tomorrow, so its hard to read too much into his performance. But on the flip side at this point I would be willing roll the dice with just about anyone other than Stanton. I don't think Stanton is a serviceable backup and he is definitely not going to be the future when CP is done so why bother. I don't see CP playing beyond his contract so it is imperative our #2 is someone who has the *possibility*, however remote, of becoming the future. Since I'm not being given any other options I will cast my vote to promote Barkley also.

Why is Stanton still the #2 and it seems like we haven't made an earnest effort to supplant him...? I think BA is just too nice of guy and probably convinced Stanton to follow him from Indie to AZ with the promise of becoming the starter because at the time he might have saw potential there. I think he feels responsible for taking care of him and this is why we haven't put ourselves in a good position. It's really Carson or bust for us, and yes for many teams it feels like #1 QB or bust, but there are teams where they are have a #2 QB with the potential to step in and carry their own weight and progress. We are not one of them.
 

Redneck Voodoo

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I wasn't too high on Barkley from his earlier reps and I didn't even think he deserved a PS spot, let alone a roster spot. The way I looked at it is if you can't beat out Stanton we have no need for you because Stanton does not deserve to be on the 53 IMHO. But tonight he showed some promise. Granted Barkley is playing against players that won't even be on a PS come tomorrow, so its hard to read too much into his performance. But on the flip side at this point I would be willing roll the dice with just about anyone other than Stanton. I don't think Stanton is a serviceable backup and he is definitely not going to be the future when CP is done so why bother. I don't see CP playing beyond his contract so it is imperative our #2 is someone who has the *possibility*, however remote, of becoming the future. Since I'm not being given any other options I will cast my vote to promote Barkley also.

Why is Stanton still the #2 and it seems like we haven't made an earnest effort to supplant him...? I think BA is just too nice of guy and probably convinced Stanton to follow him from Indie to AZ with the promise of becoming the starter because at the time he might have saw potential there. I think he feels responsible for taking care of him and this is why we haven't put ourselves in a good position. It's really Carson or bust for us, and yes for many teams it feels like #1 QB or bust, but there are teams where they are have a #2 QB with the potential to step in and carry their own weight and progress. We are not one of them.

No disrespect, but who's #2 would you rather have...other than Barkley (which is one of our own)?

The only #2's I can remember with the Cards that I liked were Lomax - behind Hart - and Lienart behind Warner. Stanton behind Palmer hasn't worked out so badly.
 

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Barkley had the best preseason of the four QBs.

F it, Palmer is the new #2, because Barkley is the new #1!!
 

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Trade Stanton to the Vikings because Barkley will not make it through waivers.
 

TJ

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1. If Stanton is as awful as people indicate, what team is going to trade for him?

2. Anyone ever watch Matt Barkley while at Philadelphia?

3. Any talk of trading, releasing, or demoting Stanton is folly. Stanton was, is, and will be QB2 for this team until further notice. How many times do Arians, Jurecki, Somers, and Urban have to mention that the QB2 job is not an open competition? With respect, the aforementioned know more about football and this team than most of us.

4. I'm so glad preseason is over.
 

bojack

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No disrespect, but who's #2 would you rather have...other than Barkley (which is one of our own)?

The only #2's I can remember with the Cards that I liked were Lomax - behind Hart - and Lienart behind Warner. Stanton behind Palmer hasn't worked out so badly.

I would estimate about a third of the leagues current #2's would be an upgrade over Stanton. I would take any of these #2's right now over Stanton:
Garapollo
Prescott
Glennon
Kap (yea I said it)
McCarron
Nassib
Weeden
McCown (yes, I would bring back McCown at #2)

If you mean what Card's #2, that isn't a valid argument to me. In recent (AZ Cards) history the Cards haven't even had a quality starting QB outside of Warner and Palmer. Part of the reason for success we've had in recent history was having a quality QB that could run an offense. Of course a quality coach, GM and all that has brought for both sides of the ball in the BA era is huge, but if you have second rate QB who is concerned with the #2. The reason everyone is concerned with our #2 is because we have a lot to lose... we have a QB who is effective more often than not but an amazing team as a whole. If you have an ineffective QB (can't move the ball, turns the ball over) it makes it extremely difficult to win games and near impossible to win in the post season. We have a team that can go very far and it doesn't rely on a QB putting up 4,500+ yds. I believe that with our D and run game we could still go far with consistent but average QB play (game manager), which Stanton won't deliver.

We have a lot to lose if Palmer is lost since we don't have a quality backup. Palmer is getting older and Palmer getting injured is a real possibility. Remember, Palmer is good but no Brady or Rodgers.

The other reason a #2 is so important is the same reason... Palmer is getting older, he has one more year left on his contract, so quite possibly just one more season left with us, but an injury can end that any time. Stanton is not the future, he will never be our #1. If we're going to use the excuse to keep Stanton around that our playbook is so hard and takes soooo long to master, then that same logic should dictate we should already have our future #1 sitting in the #2 slot and being groomed to learn the system.

That list above are not all people I believe could be our future, I'm just saying I think all of them are better than Stanton. What I would have liked to see was the Cards to draft a prospect and try to build them up. I was hoping for Cardale Jones to get picked up by us since I thought he was the best QB for the value as a prospect pick in the 4th or 5th round. They didn't, and right now Barkley is the only option we really have available at the moment to try progress that position. Trust me, I'm surprised I'm even lobbying for Barkley because I thought it was another pointless QB move on their part. But contrasting Stanton's performance again I'm ready to put some development into almost anyone else. I'm not saying cut Stanton, just either let someone compete for the position and/or bring in someone who is actually going to be developed in earnest to see if they can be our future #1.

He showed progress, so let's try in earnest to see what's what. Each preseason we see flashes of potential from new QBs and utter crap from Stanton and instead of looking to upgrade the guy that is playing terrible we cut loose the guy that outplayed him. Have you ever seen Stanton outplay the lower QBs in the last couple preseasons... no. We had this same debate last preseason and thank goodness we didn't need Stanton or I guarantee you would be singing a different tune. We barely squeaked by on many of those wins with CP.

If we keep going down the road of bringing in camp arms with no real intention of ever trying improve beyond Stanton we never will. All that will happen is that we keep Stanton and if we do bring in someone who plays well they likely won't clear waivers and we will never get a chance to develop them. If we are lucky they go on PS but never get meaningful reps. Either way odds are we will have a perpetual Lindley for our #3 until Stanton becomes our #1 because we didn't work towards upgrading that deficit and our Lindley-like #3 becomes our #2.

Since they are never going to look to replace Stanton the only way we will ever get our next starter is for the Cards to carry 3 QBs on active roster, draft an unknown quantity and start them, or trade for a retread and hope that we get lucky for a third time and they get have a resurgence in the valley. The last option barely ever works, so having it work again seems a lot less likely than having the luxury to develop prospects over the next two years while we do have a starter.

Oh well, fingers cross again Palmer doesn't get hurt. Why even bother carrying two QBs on the roster if we're going to use the premise that the season is always lost anyways when a #1 QB is lost and we're not using the #2 spot to develop our future #1.
 

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Look, I almost feel bad for being so hard on Stanton because he seems like a good guy. I just can't fathom the idea of him being a starter when we're in the midst of such a great string of successful seasons and when I read these articles like these in the offseason it makes me feel desperate that we waited too long to think about the future. Even if it is too late to do anything about season or let a #3 compete for #2 I just don't want to get painted into a corner with Stanton as a starter without making an honest effort with other options because I don't think anyone would disagree Stanton is a downgrade from Palmer. And, even though CP can put together a string of elite level plays at times and put up big stat lines, when you factor in some of the game to game and quarter to quarter inconsistency he has CP is not an elite QB. So it isn't like we're talking about downgrading from a superstar to semi-superstar. We're talking above going from above average to below average.

http://arizonasports.com/story/7260...ill-have-chance-to-start-when-palmer-retires/
http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2016/...ance-at-starting-after-carson-palmer-is-done/
 

daves

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I don't think a lot of people saw this where i originally posted it, so i'll post it again here:

Here is a list of all active QBs with over 200 attempts (Stanton has 452), sorted by passer rating. Stanton is #66 of 70. There are enough QBs better than Stanton to fill two teams with starters and backups, and still have a couple left over.

If you set the bar to 300 attempts, he's still #63 of 66. If you list guys who have started 8 games or more (Stanton has started 12), he's #63 of 68. So if you insist on those criteria, he's only around the 2nd worst backup in the league, NOT counting all of the promising young guys who haven't had a lot of live action yet.

He is atrocious.

...dbs
 

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Sure Stanton heck yes. But however giving up a Second rounder to get some team to take him seems a bit steep.
 

BullheadCardFan

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I don't think a lot of people saw this where i originally posted it, so i'll post it again here:

Here is a list of all active QBs with over 200 attempts (Stanton has 452), sorted by passer rating. Stanton is #66 of 70. There are enough QBs better than Stanton to fill two teams with starters and backups, and still have a couple left over.

If you set the bar to 300 attempts, he's still #63 of 66. If you list guys who have started 8 games or more (Stanton has started 12), he's #63 of 68. So if you insist on those criteria, he's only around the 2nd worst backup in the league, NOT counting all of the promising young guys who haven't had a lot of live action yet.

He is atrocious.

...dbs
Good post. Confirms what many of us have been saying.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Barkley has looked better than Palmer this pre-season. Maybe we should start him. I bolded the only significant thing about Barkley.
 

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Unless Brak replaces BA as HC, I'd say that Stanton is safe. MB did show enough to at least keep him on the PS, but indications are that he'll be cut. He was VG, last night.
 

BigRedRage

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Unless Brak replaces BA as HC, I'd say that Stanton is safe. MB did show enough to at least keep him on the PS, but indications are that he'll be cut. He was VG, last night.
Cutting him may not get him to the practice squad
 
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I don't think a lot of people saw this where i originally posted it, so i'll post it again here:

Here is a list of all active QBs with over 200 attempts (Stanton has 452), sorted by passer rating. Stanton is #66 of 70. There are enough QBs better than Stanton to fill two teams with starters and backups, and still have a couple left over.

If you set the bar to 300 attempts, he's still #63 of 66. If you list guys who have started 8 games or more (Stanton has started 12), he's #63 of 68. So if you insist on those criteria, he's only around the 2nd worst backup in the league, NOT counting all of the promising young guys who haven't had a lot of live action yet.

He is atrocious.

...dbs

Going by that list Tebow, Manziel, DA, Sanchez, Clipboard Jesus, & Geno are all better than Stanton. I don't believe the list. I believe the eyeball test & none of those guys are better options.
 
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