Trade talks & rumors

[Ronin]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m1 minute ago

The Clippers won't be taking back a player in Cunningham deal, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. They're clearing a roster spot

 

[PDXChris]

They trade for him and then they're going to wave him...weird

Maybe a favor so the Clippers would clear some room to sign Ray Allen? Philly still has some cap space and waiving him won't hurt them and maybe they get a 2nd rounder out of it.

 

[SirStefan32]

OK. If we do make a trade, where do you want to upgrade this roster?

1. Replace Len, and move him to a backup. Ship Miles out or give him scrap end of the bench minutes.
2. Replace Markieff and move him to the bench or trade him.
3. Replace PJ.
4. Trade Bledsoe for a true two guard.
5. Trade Goran for a true two guard. (I don't see the point in trading either of these guys for a pg).

6. Trade IT or Green for another 6th man type, but not a starter.
7. Upgrade the bench.,

Any other options.

I think its clear that the next move the Suns need to make is much more difficult than the accumulating assets mode they have been in. You cannot just "make a move." You have to be patient and wait for the right opportunity. The teams that get stuck in mediocrity and the ones that are always tinkering, making sideways moves.

I think this would be a great idea for a new thread. 'Where to we go from here?" type of a thread.

To me, we have too many point guards, not enough shooting guards, and outside of Len, we have no power on the two power positions.

In an ideal world, Bledsoe, IT, and the Morris twins would all go bye bye, and we'd get a backup C, a real POWER forward, and a real shooting guard. This is assuming Dragic commits to staying in Phoenix once the two ball hogs are gone. If they decide they are keeping even one of them, I'd send Goran packing to avoid losing him for nothing.

In reality, I'd settle for one of the two undersized shooting guards pretending to be point guards being gone and getting a real PF in return, moving Morris to the bench.

 

[Ronin]

[URL="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA"]Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 38m 38 minutes ago [/URL] https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

Yahoo Sources: Cleveland acquires Denver center Timofey Mozgov for two first-round picks. http://yhoo.it/1Fp1bjD

 

[Ronin]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 57m 57 minutes ago

Protections on Cleveland first-round to Denver via OKC: 1-18 in 2015, 1-15 in '16; 1-15 in 2017. After '17, it becomes two seconds.

Here are protections on Memphis pick: 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in '16, 1-5 in '17 and 1-5 in 2018; unprotected in 2019

 

[SirStefan32]

Good for them- a decent Center for two crappy first-round picks.

 

[Ronin]

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think this would be a great idea for a new thread. 'Where to we go from here?" type of a thread.

To me, we have too many point guards, not enough shooting guards, and outside of Len, we have no power on the two power positions.

In an ideal world, Bledsoe, IT, and the Morris twins would all go bye bye, and we'd get a backup C, a real POWER forward, and a real shooting guard. This is assuming Dragic commits to staying in Phoenix once the two ball hogs are gone. If they decide they are keeping even one of them, I'd send Goran packing to avoid losing him for nothing.

In reality, I'd settle for one of the two undersized shooting guards pretending to be point guards being gone and getting a real PF in return, moving Morris to the bench.

I do think we could use a pf/c who is a good rebounder, preferably starting caliber. Basically this player would rotate with Len and Markieff. But anyone we trade for would have to be better than Plumlee, and preferably better than Markieff.

Trade bait would be IT, Green, Plumlee, Archie, picks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think this would be a great idea for a new thread. 'Where to we go from here?" type of a thread.

To me, we have too many point guards, not enough shooting guards, and outside of Len, we have no power on the two power positions.

In an ideal world, Bledsoe, IT, and the Morris twins would all go bye bye, and we'd get a backup C, a real POWER forward, and a real shooting guard. This is assuming Dragic commits to staying in Phoenix once the two ball hogs are gone. If they decide they are keeping even one of them, I'd send Goran packing to avoid losing him for nothing.

In reality, I'd settle for one of the two undersized shooting guards pretending to be point guards being gone and getting a real PF in return, moving Morris to the bench.

Just to make a probably unnecessary clarification, that's your version of a perfect world. It's closer to a nightmare to me. For three weeks now we've gradually moved up the ladder and are now the 12th best team (record wise) in the NBA and I see no reason to get rid of some of our best players. I'd much rather let this young team continue to improve and see what happens. We're 9 - 2 recently and have almost made up for our embarrassing losses earlier in December. Other than a role playing big man I'd stand pat unless Green or Thomas start to become problems because of playing time or if they believe we're going to lose Goran.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Just to make a probably unnecessary clarification, that's your version of a perfect world. It's closer to a nightmare to me. For three weeks now we've gradually moved up the ladder and are now the 12th best team (record wise) in the NBA and I see no reason to get rid of some of our best players. I'd much rather let this young team continue to improve and see what happens. We're 9 - 2 recently and have almost made up for our embarrassing losses earlier in December. Other than a role playing big man I'd stand pat unless Green or Thomas start to become problems because of playing time or if they believe we're going to lose Goran.

Steve

Totally agree, the Bledsoe hate specifically is somewhere beyond ridiculous - he's our best player, and clearly better than Goran.

I'd love to see who/how Stephan would propose getting a "real" pf and sg.

 

[Covert Rain]

Just to make a probably unnecessary clarification, that's your version of a perfect world. It's closer to a nightmare to me. For three weeks now we've gradually moved up the ladder and are now the 12th best team (record wise) in the NBA and I see no reason to get rid of some of our best players. I'd much rather let this young team continue to improve and see what happens. We're 9 - 2 recently and have almost made up for our embarrassing losses earlier in December. Other than a role playing big man I'd stand pat unless Green or Thomas start to become problems because of playing time or if they believe we're going to lose Goran.

Steve

I agree with most of what you said here except I think we already know what will happen. The team will pull off some wins, make it close to the playoffs or get in with an early exit. What we don't probably know is the exact ceiling for some of these guys just yet but I don't think it's much higher than what you see now. I agree that you just don't dump these guys to dump them but if you can make a significant trade with our assets you do it. That's why we have been building assets to begin with.

If the Suns keep flirting or get into the playoffs, our drafts picks are not going to be low enough to get anything done unless we get lucky. So, trading your assets is probably the only viable solution to make this team a legit contender. I just hope the Suns don't get impatient and do something stupid. Let's see if some of these guys progress.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with most of what you said here except I think we already know what will happen. The team will pull off some wins, make it close to the playoffs or get in with an early exit. What we don't probably know is the exact ceiling for some of these guys just yet but I don't think it's much higher than what you see now. I agree that you just don't dump these guys to dump them but if you can make a significant trade with our assets you do it. That's why we have been building assets to begin with.

If the Suns keep flirting or get into the playoffs, our drafts picks are not going to be low enough to get anything done unless we get lucky. So, trading your assets is probably the only viable solution to make this team a legit contender. I just hope the Suns don't get impatient and do something stupid. Let's see if some of these guys progress.

Well, I didn't mean see if we make the playoffs. I mean, let these guys grow and develop together over a period of years. Unless someone is offering us a superstar, build from within until you have a reason not to. Unlike you, I think we have several players with star potential. Now it just remains to be seen if any of them reach that potential.

Steve

 

[Chaz]

They need a PF but other than that they should let these guys develop and wait for an opportunity to get an impact player.

It may be another year or two before they are in a position to be really aggressive in the trade market.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think this would be a great idea for a new thread. 'Where to we go from here?" type of a thread.

To me, we have too many point guards, not enough shooting guards, and outside of Len, we have no power on the two power positions.

In an ideal world, Bledsoe, IT, and the Morris twins would all go bye bye, and we'd get a backup C, a real POWER forward, and a real shooting guard. This is assuming Dragic commits to staying in Phoenix once the two ball hogs are gone. If they decide they are keeping even one of them, I'd send Goran packing to avoid losing him for nothing.

In reality, I'd settle for one of the two undersized shooting guards pretending to be point guards being gone and getting a real PF in return, moving Morris to the bench.

I don't think Bledsoe will be moved, his contract is simply too large. Plus the Suns may see him as the replacement guy for Goran if Dragic leaves.

I'm completely with you on getting a better PF. I love Kieff but his defensive and rebounding deficiency is just too much for him to start on good teams. He's best as a 6th man.

I wish Chicago wasn't winning so much, getting Gibson or Noah from them would have been ideal.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Totally agree, the Bledsoe hate specifically is somewhere beyond ridiculous - he's our best player, and clearly better than Goran.

I'd love to see who/how Stephan would propose getting a "real" pf and sg.

Where's the gif of the worm can opening?

 

[SirStefan32]

Just to make a probably unnecessary clarification, that's your version of a perfect world. It's closer to a nightmare to me. For three weeks now we've gradually moved up the ladder and are now the 12th best team (record wise) in the NBA and I see no reason to get rid of some of our best players. I'd much rather let this young team continue to improve and see what happens. We're 9 - 2 recently and have almost made up for our embarrassing losses earlier in December. Other than a role playing big man I'd stand pat unless Green or Thomas start to become problems because of playing time or if they believe we're going to lose Goran.

Steve

Correct! My perfect world includes a Suns team that can win against anyone, including teams that one has to beat in the playoffs. That's not going to happen with a bunch of undersized ball hogs.

 

[SirStefan32]

I do think we could use a pf/c who is a good rebounder, preferably starting caliber. Basically this player would rotate with Len and Markieff. But anyone we trade for would have to be better than Plumlee, and preferably better than Markieff.

Trade bait would be IT, Green, Plumlee, Archie, picks.

Agreed. I would be open to that PF starting and Markieff moving to the sixth man role.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Correct! My perfect world includes a Suns team that can win against anyone, including teams that one has to beat in the playoffs. That's not going to happen with a bunch of undersized ball hogs.

Yeah and that's where we really disagree. I don't consider Bledsoe undersized or a ball hog. He's short but other than one game against the Nets last year I've yet to see him be "undersized". Size is more than height. He's long and strong and rarely gets outmatched because of his size. He's also a very willing passer as evidenced by the fact that he typically leads this team in assists. He misses some opportunities and he sometimes struggles with when to shoot versus when to pass but that's inexperience not ego as you imply.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Totally agree, the Bledsoe hate specifically is somewhere beyond ridiculous - he's our best player, and clearly better than Goran.

I'd love to see who/how Stephan would propose getting a "real" pf and sg.

First off, it's Stefan, not Stephan.

As far as Bledsoe goes, I'm not even going to bother going into that discussion- you can believe he is Jordan/Kobe/LeBron all you want, and nothing I say is going to change that.

Second question is interesting, and worth discussing. Without putting some serious time into research, I'd say for PFs, Kevin Love and Al Jefferson would be my primary targets. Love would be a better fit with Dragic, but Jefferson can play 4 and 5.
Next on the list would be Jordan Hill, or if the Suns believe they can contend right now, David West. Thomas Robinson could be a good, cheap option as well, as could Ed Davis.

Among shooting guards, my primary targets would be Jimmy Butler, Aaron Affalo, Danny Green, and Wes Matthews.

If we could rid ourselves of both Bledsoe and IT, more playing time would open up for Archie Goodwin and even TJ. Archie is essentially a much taller, less selfish Bledsoe, and Warren will be one hell of a player as well.

Obviously, acquiring most of these players is not realistic, but that's where I'd start.

 

[BC867]

I'd love to see who/how Stephan would propose getting a "real" pf and sg.

If you are counting on any of us ASFN posters to do the job of an NBA GM, the Suns Front Office must be in real trouble. That's their job. We count on them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

First off, it's Stefan, not Stephan.

As far as Bledsoe goes, I'm not even going to bother going into that discussion- you can believe he is Jordan/Kobe/LeBron all you want, and nothing I say is going to change that.

Second question is interesting, and worth discussing.

Nothing is really worth discussing with you re: Bledsoe when you keep parroting the same "people believe Bledsoe is LeBron" stupidity over and over again with no basis for doing so.

Seriously... Stop projecting idiotic things into others arguments. Its the debate tactics of a ten year old.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah and that's where we really disagree. I don't consider Bledsoe undersized or a ball hog. He's short but other than one game against the Nets last year I've yet to see him be "undersized". Size is more than height. He's long and strong and rarely gets outmatched because of his size. He's also a very willing passer as evidenced by the fact that he typically leads this team in assists. He misses some opportunities and he sometimes struggles with when to shoot versus when to pass but that's inexperience not ego as you imply.

Steve

I would certainly hope that the guy who has the ball on every possession would lead the team in assists. Stephon Marbury did it for years.

Inexperience argument has zero validity. Inexperience is taking the last shot a few seconds too soon, or trying a cross-court pass, or getting caught up in the air with nobody to pass to. Jacking up shots over three taller defenders while the best shooter is wide open in the corner time after time, game after game, is all ego. IT has gotten less selfish since coming back from his injury. Bledsoe has only gotten more selfish over the last year or so.

 

[SirStefan32]

If you are counting on any of us ASFN posters to do the job of an NBA GM, the Suns Front Office must be in real trouble. That's their job. We count on them.

Yeah, no kidding. God help us if we are depending on anyone here to lead the team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

First off, it's Stefan, not Stephan.

As far as Bledsoe goes, I'm not even going to bother going into that discussion- you can believe he is Jordan/Kobe/LeBron all you want, and nothing I say is going to change that.

Second question is interesting, and worth discussing. Without putting some serious time into research, I'd say for PFs, Kevin Love and Al Jefferson would be my primary targets. Love would be a better fit with Dragic, but Jefferson can play 4 and 5.
Next on the list would be Jordan Hill, or if the Suns believe they can contend right now, David West. Thomas Robinson could be a good, cheap option as well, as could Ed Davis.

Among shooting guards, my primary targets would be Jimmy Butler, Aaron Affalo, Danny Green, and Wes Matthews.

If we could rid ourselves of both Bledsoe and IT, more playing time would open up for Archie Goodwin and even TJ. Archie is essentially a much taller, less selfish Bledsoe, and Warren will be one hell of a player as well.

Obviously, acquiring most of these players is not realistic, but that's where I'd start.

He's our best player and he's the second coming of Lebron are not the same thing. If Goran's defense matched his offense, he'd be our best player but it doesn't and he isn't. By default it's probably either Bledsoe or Markieff, the two you want to get rid of. But hopefully by the end of next season our best player will be Alex Len.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

He's our best player and he's the second coming of Lebron are not the same thing. If Goran's defense matched his offense, he'd be our best player but it doesn't and he isn't. By default it's probably either Bledsoe or Markieff, the two you want to get rid of. But hopefully by the end of next season our best player will be Alex Len.

Steve

Well, we'll see how much attention Dragic generates vs. how much Bledsoe generated. Dragic is an All-NBA player. If you want to believe Bledsoe (or Markieff) is our best player, more power to you, but there's no basis in reality for that claim.

I think we do agree on Len though, so that's something.